What happens to our land if Second Life closes down?

For a long time now I've been contemplating getting a region of my own, or to share with a couple of friends.

To "purchase" the land, it costs $1675. However, it's not really a purchase because you are only leasing it at the colo facility.

If Second Life was to close, you're effectively handing that region server back to the colo, and common sense dictates that you should be refunded the cost of that initial investment.

However, my guess is that it doesn't happen that way, you're basically SOL.

Take that argument a step further; what about mainland owners/island renters? Clearly you had to buy the land in the first place, from someone, so do you claim a refund from the land owner, or Linden Lab, or don't you get anything?

Clearly most people in SL outside of the corporations don't have $1675 as 'disposable income'; and if my guesses are correct, then obviously it's a huge risk for anyone to invest any amount of money in it.

You may say "Second Life won't close down" ... but, given the current climate, who knows what other stuff might be uncovered by 'investigative journalists', and with a US election not that far away, it wouldn't take much for someone to take "clearing up cyberspace" as a campaign issue, and get us closed down.

Broccoli

I think you cannot reclaim anything if SL would close down.

Buying "land' is not much then paying a fee for some room on a server of SL. You are paying for the service they give you. You own nothing.

Morwen.

If SL shuts down you lose all assets. The one thing you do get to keep is IP rights to any IP you own... you just have no access to the data that makes up the IP.

Hope you have backups and the ability to take a financial hit! This is the reason I don't leave my USD balance sitting with LL for long before cashing it out; if LL goes so does that positive balance.

all LL has to do is flip the switch but dont really fret

currently theres no other 3d online world system exactly like SL, LL's system is starting to age as far as software goes but their direct compentition is either WAYYYYY older or still in "proof of concept" phases

what that means

while theres systems like there and the upcoming home (on the sony ps3) they have already peaked or have 0 userbase (former latter)

also back to the exactly like SL statement, no other system allows you the creative freedom of SL, its really geared twards the common creative user, no other system allows you to make inworld scripted objects, no other system has a modeling system in place, there you have to learn vrml ... well if your gonna do that why pay for it just run your own vrml serverright?? besides its already a dead technology, a dream of 1993

newer systems like sony's home dont allow user created content at all.. its just a pretty 3d chat room with alot of ad's in it, which might be interesting to the console-totally computer illerate crowd

(not saying consolers are computer dumb but that is kind of their major market)

personally id say SL has ATLEAST another 5 years ... course with my previous predictions with mmo systems add another 3-5 years past that

then theres upgrades and updates... with the (finally) open sourcing of SL it gains even more possible lifespan

so you should be quite ok for a while IMO

According to the TOS, LL keeps the ownership of all assets on their servers. If they ban someone, they'll confiscate land and L$. I guess it would be the same if LL turned off the lights for whatever reason.

Now, if such a TOS would uphold in court, a contract that basically says "you may buy something, but you'll never get it"... I highly doubt that. There are some basic customer rights in most countries, and a very basic one is that you can expect to receive and keep a purchased ware.

For me, it clearly is a purchase. The land store contains phrases like "A region will give you complete ownership of each grid space you purchase", and if I remember the purchase process correctly, it is never made clear that you only pay a server setup fee. I didn't know that when I bought an island (before the new TOS was in place).
I guess it's in LL's best interest to keep the grid going as long as possible (and I assume they're making more than enough money to justify that).

You lose everything. You also lose just about everything when they open source the server software. And that won't be in five years, that could be in 12 months.

Why would you lose everything with open-sourced server software? I'm looking forward to that like a kid to Christmas...

Sure, it'll be a fantastic awesome time. But if I can host a sim in my bedroom essentially for free or even in a regular colo then your $300 a month is going to start looking pretty stupid. I'll be able to undercut your prices by about tenfold. I guess you don't literally lose anything it just becomes nearly worthless.

Open sourcing the server software... sure, easy.

But maintaining a financial system ($L) through that, plus permissioned items, plus asset serving... I'm not expecting a complete solution anytime soon.

As for just a server without the good functions, heh, Activeworlds is dirt cheap and pretty close... and incredibly desolate.

OK, agreed. But 12 months doesn't count as soon. My theory is that they will continue to centralise the financial system and so no significant changes need to be made there. As for what they'll do with assets I really have no idea how they're gonna solve that one.

i've always considered that fee to be an irrefundable setup cost (much like one charged by a webhosts and broadband providers), but thanks to typical Linden doublespeak (see bold text below), it's hard to say one way or the other.

Private Island FAQ:

Like you I've been contemplating getting an island for a while, but when setup fees were increased last October I dropped the idea altogether (it was the wrong side of Christmas for me to buy even at the lower price). With sculptie prims around the corner (they'll make my island theme dream easy beyond belief thanks to my 3DS Max experience) I was starting to entertain thoughts of getting one again, but I really can't afford to lose it all if SL goes titsup. Recent decisions have made me so nervous that it seems unlikely I'll contemplate island purchase again until we've come out the other side of this whole verification/disneyfication mess - assuming there's anything left then.

All land is ceded to Germany.

I, and I'm sure a helluvalota other folk would be devastated if LL throws the switch. The 'Disappearing Alts' issue itself is rather frightening.

I don't know how servers costs and resale values compare with say, home computers but bearing in mind when you 'buy' a PI or mainland sim, LL are really buying a server, that is a substantial outlay for both parties. If at some indeterminate time in the future LL close, what kind of recuperation can they get on their umpteen year-old Class 4/5 server? I know after three or four years, a home PC is worth a mere fraction of the initial outlay and over five or six, it can be darn difficult getting rid of the thing.

I just wondered how they compared. I think everyone just has to consider their initial outlay as you put it for the corporates, 'disposable'

For the smaller plot owners who can see the end coming, they would try to sell off their land but obviously they would have a problem with to whom. It's a horrible thought .. stoppit Bilbo!!

I don't think Philip is likely to wake up one morning and say "meh I'm bored with Second Life, let's close down" ... but the "throwing the switch" may be forced upon it by some legal or governmental body if too many problems get uncovered.

Broccoli

Panic! Panic! Wolf! Wolf! They sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Second Life isn't going anywhere anytime soon. All you are doing is stirring up FUD. If push came to shove, LL would move to a more liberal country and continue. There's too much money involved to just cease operations.

More likely he'd wake up and cash a big check from some Entity Like Sony or EA and there would be a "Under New Management " sign next to the monkeys banging on things.

and all the adult struff thrown into a virtual trashcan

High and mighty thought here. I think Second Life should be considered a national treasure or precious art or given some type of legal protection status like a sovereign nation, or anything that would protect us from being euthanized by some bored millionaire. Not a lawyer here, just musing. Besides, the thought of tens of thousands of avatars looking to the sky screaming OMG…NOO00ooo…really wigs me out.
Thanks for the happy thoughts…/me crawls into corner and weeps

Precedent says if they moved to a safe country they'd still be doing whatever Germany told them. Since they are currently in a country "safe" from German law, but still perma-ban accounts for violating it.

So if the US came down they'd move elsewhere... and still do what the US told them.

To certain extent we are at that peril in RL as well. Just a question of which millionaire cracks first.

exactly!

You can always file a multi-million dollar/euro/yen class action lawsuit...DOH!

Putting investment money into Second Life is like putting investment money in junk bonds. Even though a few foolhardy individuals may make some money from it, overall it's still a fool's gamble.

Linden Labs guarantees nothing whatsoever.

Take your $1600 and do some commodity speculation.

Except the Rhineland ofcourse. That stays.

No one mentioned LL going bankrupt. It's a coroporation..........bankrupt the company, take the personal loses and go out and start over. The investers get the dregs and change the structure, make it something else that recovers some if the loses and then sells it to someone else. Second Life is history.........all your "stuff" is gone. You are SOL.

And that is not out of the realm of possibilities........especially with the recent "findings" of the world press. Age verification, disappearing alts, vague answers to problems........all coudl point in that direction. I wouldn't "invest" anymore in SL than I could afford to lose. Like when I go to Las Vegas........I that what I can spend expecting to spend it all. When it's gone, I come home. It's a gamble and the odds are against you.