How to learn SL - inworld??

I just got a note stating that TUI is expanding/reopening/looking for people. (^_^)

There's Help People and Dreams. (^_^)

I also just got word that Mental Mentors are two weeks away from approval for the RHN. (^_^)y

To the OP: I think that Search/Events/Educational will give you a list of classes. I loved taking classes when first in SL. I like NCI and Mystical Mastery. There is a great game called Prim Prov which runs every Thursday which is a build and guess game.

It is harder to talk to people in SL now than when I came in with the great immigration of 06. It seemed to be literally raining noobs then and you could talk to anyone. I find those of us who came in have settled down a bit and tend to not be as open to people we don't know...at least that's true for me. Just too busy here just like I'm in RL.

The Ivory Tower of Primitives does not have a staff there to answer questions in real time, does it?

There are groups inworld to provide real time help with learning how to build in the group chat. One such group is name Builders of Second Life. I can invite people who learn building or people who are willing to answer questions on building into that group.

Being in Builders of Second Life does not mean that you can get someone to teleport to you anytime you want. It's primarily for asking and answering questions in group chat. I'm not personally familiar with other building help groups so I can't comment about any of them.

Are there anything like Skype groups for Second Life where a person could talk about building in Second Life in real time while in SL?

Depends on what you're trying to do, I guess, but if we use scripting as an example, since that's something I learned to do here, I didn't need to wander the grid looking for someone to teach me. I was able to look at the wiki, where I found online tutorials and plenty of examples, and thus gained a rough idea of what it's all about. Then I started struggling to make my own stuff, joined some in-world groups (College of Scripting, Script Academy, Scripts) where I could ask questions and started reading and asking questions over at the Scripting Tips forum.

There I found people like Void and Argent and Talarus and Jesse Barnett (to name a handful of the many people who continue to help me there so patiently) who I'd never have met if I was just looking round the grid hoping to run into "someone to teach me scripting" in-world, and nor would I have had the nerve to ask them if I had met them. But I didn't need to; all I needed was to start asking my questions in the right places.

A friend of mine who's now a very skilled animator learned her trade the same way; got a copy of Qavimator, struggled through a few online tutorials so she understood the interface and basic concepts and then started trying to make stuff and asking for lots of help in the groups.

There's far more people who're glad to explain stuff in the forums and the in-world groups, when they have the time and if someone asks a question with which they can help, than who want to set up formal classes.

Builders Exchange and the Builders Resource Network are both pretty good, and both publicise in-world classes.

This is a wonderful thread. I can remember wanting so badly to learn to build in SL when I was new. Even today I am eager to learn more and more.

I can remember being a month old and rezzing a cube. I was astounded. Being able to do that opened my eyes to all that I saw in SL. I explored the grid looking in wonder at all the wonderful creations that residents had made. I wanted to be a builder too! Sadly, when I tried to rez a cube again...not a darn thing happened. I couldn't remember exactly how I got that little plywood cube to appear.

I'm still a long way off from tackling the challenge of creating my own sculpties. But, the transition from learning how to rez a prim to learning how to edit it to suit my needs is still so fresh in my mind.

I am a lucky person. Eventually I did meet a wonderful builder who was willing to take the time to teach me. But, prior to meeting that person and in the time since then, I've taken classes within SL and I've visited the Tower.

As a new resident and especially as a person with no prior knowledge of any sort of building tool, the Ivory Tower was much too complex. There was just too much jargon and not enough definition.

I still attend classes within SL. I often hand an NCI landmark to the new residents that I meet that have questions that I'm not inclined or learned enough to answer. I really think that organizations like NCI are wonderful. They offer classes that are pertinent to all people trying to learn their way around SL. But, sadly, I can only recall one class that I've taken within SL that the "student body" was actually mainly composed of people that wanted to learn. That class covered beginning camera control...I can only guess that the more experienced SL residents couldn't figure out a way to stump or one-up the instructor on that topic. I'm not giving up there though. I'll continue to take classes.

Having one person take the time to work with me made a huge difference. But, I think the biggest part of my actual learning came from studying and copying my mentor's work and also the work of other friends during their learning process. I can remember playing for hours in SL with a torus seeing what I could do with it and sharing those results with friends. I can also remember them sharing their own discoveries.

I know that finding one person inworld to teach us is rare. But, being able to find good examples of building technique shouldn't be. There are texture libraries and script libraries. Why can't there be a place that offers full perm examples that show what can be done with cut, taper, shear, hollow..actual examples that others can study and play with?

Always willing to help a newbie in sincere wish for help.

However finding one is rare. And when an actual noob is spotted, and one that wants help, it's even rarer that it turns out it isn't about begging for money or being hit on at some point, or that they actually WANT help after all. They often don't seem to realise it takes a few minutes at least, if they want an entire new avatar and to learn how to get started.

Unfortunately most walk away from keyboard for minutes at a time, without warning, or talk on their cell phone and stop replying to chat, etc.

I'm willing to help but basic manners are a necessity first.

I'm sorry, Yumi, but I think those are the wrong reasons for wanting to spend time learning to do stuff here. If you don't actually want to create but, instead, want to make lots of L$ and are considering content creation as one out of many possible options, then I agree with you. In that case, my advice would be to get a part-time RL job which, no matter how low paid would almost certainly, be more lucrative than spending the equivalent time in-world making stuff. selling it and cashing out the L$ thus earned.

I didn't learn scripting because I wanted to be a scriptor and make lots of money. I learned because I enjoy doing it; I like solving problems and being able to make prims do strange stuff when you tell them to -- it's as close as I'll ever get to being able to do magic. Similarly my animator chum; she started because she didn't like any of the animations then available for some RP in which she was involved so she decided to make her own. The plan wasn't to sell them; that came later because so many people said how much they liked them and wanted to get copies for themselves and their friends. But the main reason she makes them still is that she likes doing them.

The money we make from selling our stuff is a very welcome bonus, but the real reason we work together on things is that we enjoy imagining and then making our toys -- it's a pleasurable and entertaining activity in itself.

I am reluctant to give out full perm objects or scripts because they can be modified into griefing tools and I would show as the creator.

It's not just about "earning lots of L$", though. The thing is, "liking creating" isn't something that exists in a vacuum; the results that come about from creating can affect how much you turn out to like it. If the act of creation was truly all that mattered, then the creators could do all their creation on a local OpenSim and lose nothing.

Sure; I agree that having your work -- or even the potential of having your work -- appreciated by others is part of it. Sometimes, "others" is just one person, of course. But I still say that, unless you actually enjoy the activity of creating something in-world, there's no point in learning to do it.

I started to learn to script because I was fed up of paying lots of money for things that didn't really work as I wanted them to. My experience of dealing with some of the people who'd written the scripts convinced me that, since even they could do it, it couldn't possibly be that difficult, so I'd give it a shot myself. Then I found I really enjoyed doing it -- figuring out what exactly I wanted prims to do, and then how to tell them to do it, in the confines of lsl. I rapidly discovered I enjoyed doing it more than I enjoyed building (which I also like but don't really have the visual flair for -- I'm competent rather than inspired).

While I agree I wouldn't particularly enjoy scripting in a vacuum on OpenSim, my point is that I know, too, I wouldn't have the patience to do it in SL just for the money -- I turn down lots of work now because I know, from experience, I wouldn't enjoy spending my time doing it and it would feel too much like RL work only for a lot less money -- if I didn't like what I was doing.

Well, I guess I went the other way. I enjoyed scripting for a while, but after I realised that it made no difference to anything and whatever I did was being thrown away, I stopped. There's other things I can enjoy.

I saw this a bit late. I have a link to a website that shows a lot of prim tweaking:

Thank you all for your comments regarding my post... Twisded Pharaoh, some excellent direction, thanks! I have already looked at and visited most of these, but will follow up on ones I didn’t know about.
I would, however, like to respond to a few of the comments here - Firstly I have no clue what OP means, I suspect it is not important, but -

I have spent six months in second life hunting builders and creators, as well as dragging myself though Blender to figure out the sculpt. I find enjoyment from creating and contributing - frankly this is not happening for me in SL, hence the sadness and lack of enjoyment. To spend a year or more on learning one building technique does not satisfy the creative drive to realise your visions. It makes no sence to spend this amount of time on learning before you can have an enjoyable SL experience! I understand SL is not a game, but over and over again I hear the words "real people" and "treated as such" - How about me - I am a real person and I treat others with respect and dignity, however these words to not apply for new people, we are referred to as noobs or newbies and treated as leaches with many assumptions made about us. It is not easy making friends with established people (and believe me I have tried!) Sure I can make a million friends with new guys - but we are all in the same boat, and that will not help me.

Comments like this make new people afraid of asking or speaking up - who wants to be treated like a baby, and branded as such - This is a typical attitude a lot of residents have about new people - that they just want to be spoon feed, and make lots of money!
It is very difficult to find people in world who do not have this attitude - and all along, I have been specific about creating sculpties. Yes I have been to the Ivory tower, and I thought it was fantastic, the message I was really trying to ask is if there are places like that for sculpties. If SL is a community of collaboration, why is it so difficult to find help in world?

I don't think people should be beaten on because they are frustrated and have spent a lot of time trying to find help and getting nowhere. I am already at a disadvantage by being new - very few people will give me the time of day to begin with.

As I have been trying to explain I have been "looking" and "looking" for resources and information that will help me, this is another noob assumption that just turns people off.
You are lucky, Brenda, that you have got meaningful help when you have asked people in world - and that is just it - "luck". With out in world resources that can offer practical hands on experience.... you just have to get lucky.

Thank you for this, Yumi - it explains exactly what I have been trying to say, it is not easy for new people and I think you guys with loads of experience seem to forget that.
I have looked for many different classes in world, but they never run in my time zone or end up being cancelled. There is a wealth of information that just remains inside residents heads.


I am starting to see a trend here - it is ALLWAYS the new persons fault. People that have done the long yards and had to learn everything themselves are protective of what they know and information is power. Perhaps it is because of resentment of having to do this, that they are irritated when help is asked?

I am new, and from my experience so far, agree with this. It is completely obvious to a new person that there is a social divide with those who are more experienced. So when it comes to finding the helpful ones, it’s like looking for a needle in a haystack.


You speak of some "golden age", that I just do not see happening in SL today.

The responses to my post have been both helpful and discouraging. There’s a lot of talk here about scripting (something I have never been interested in) and learning stuff by yourself.

I am unclear how the discussion of making money surfaced - I am more interested in creation than money right now. The reason I want to create stuff is so that I can build a world that I find enjoyable. It’s obvious to me that acquiring this knowledge and developing these skills is a difficult journey that is made even harder by the harsh assumptions existing residents make about new people. New people very quickly pick up on the "we don't want you here" vibe.

As for the mountains of reading material and video tutorials - there is only some much you can learn from this, if you are even to find the correct links, or sift through material that does not apply to what you need to know. Everyone is different, and I feel that practical in world experience and real time examples are far more powerful than wikki and the endless forums that usually turn into noob bashings.

I understand that not everyone wants to teach, or even help someone out - but I find it strange that we can mention that these people come at a cost and that learning has to be paid for - why is it ok for established residents to be thinking and talking about money, when noobs are branded as outcasts if they even contemplate it?
It is difficult being in different time zones, on other sides of the word - being new and having to come to terms with having to spend a year or more learning something, before second life can be enjoyable. All these "helpful people" may not be online when I a roaming around looking for help. I have searched a lot to try and perfect the sculpty, both in world and on the web - as others have pointed out, the search function is not reliable. I’m not expecting people post all the answers somewhere, perhaps a little guidance on where to find what is out there( and thank you all of you that have) – but what I did expect from a “user created community” was a little more openness and welcoming of people that want to contribute and “create”.

It saddens me that people have to make assumptions about my motives, and dismiss me as wanting to be spoon fed or make a quick buck out of nothing. I have spent over 3 months researching and looking at the web, over 6hrs per day for 4 continuous weeks working on one sculpty - I feel burnt out. At what point do you stop flogging the dead horse and get off? People tell me that I shouldn't bother with sculpties, to stick to regular building. But why? It allows me to express my creativity more freely - why is that such a bad thing?

Well I'm on during odd hours relative to my timezone. I'm not that familiar with blender and I wouldn't consider myself anywhere near the king of sculpty makers, but if your on when I am and I'm not busy I wouldn't mind helping you out.

OP = Original Post(er?).


Still many people manage to have an enjoyable experience without learning for a long time. Could it be you want to go too fast? You are starting with one of the most difficult things to to: sculpting with Blender.


Well I am not a person to make friends with for help, as I concentrate most of my time on my business, but there are TONS of people who are great helpers, and most people I know are great towards newbies. When I read this part, I think you are making more assumptions about the establshed people, then the established people make about noobs


Sculpting is not done with inworld tools, that is why it is hard to find inworld help. Though Sculpt Studio has a very active support group for their tool, and it is in my opinion a great way of understanding sculpties in-world. After you manage to work with this, you might never want to use Blender anymore.


Your disadvantage now, is as big as mine was 2 years ago. Really.


You call it luck, I do not. As I said the topic sculpties is, apart from the inworld tool I mentioned (there are 2 more I believe), something you simply do out-world. Everything you do with an outworld tool, will have more outworld resources then inworld ones.


In fact I thought I heard an echo when I saw your posts... you and Yumi are much alike in some ways. We were new too when we began, you seem to forget that There actually is a wealth of information in residents heads, but also a wealth of it documented on the web and inworld.


The trend I am seeing is that people want to be taken by the hand, and think somehow they "deserve" that. Well I was new too, and no one took me by the hand. Still I managed to learn things, so it cannot be that hard


Yet it happens every day.


You ill have to learn by yourself, as there are no classes for outworld tools. Lots of useful information to go through on the interwebz by the way.


You might look deeper into your own soul for the source of that vibe, as many new people experience something completely different here.


Welcome in this century. There is an overload on information, and it is up to you to struggle through it. This will not get better soon, I am afraid.


Because a noob still has to learn tons before they should think about making money. It is not so strange that people giving classes, expect to be somehow rewarded for their time is it? Surely you do not mean tht the teacher should pay the students for the privilige to teach?


Again, start searching within yourself before pointing towards others.
You are starting with probably the most difficult concept within SL, sculpties. Then you choose the most complex tool to create sculpties. It is not so weird that you need that much time to learn: start easier!


Yet you are making your own assumptions about the established residents. And I am one of them.

The reason people told you not to bother with sculpties, I just explained (probably a few times even in this post). Start with regular prims, then give Sculpt Studio a try (I believe they have free versions you can play around with at their own place, not sure though). You need understanding of prims to use Sculpt Studio, and Sculpt Studio helps you understand how 3d models translate to SL.

And no, I am not in any way affiliated with this tool. I purchased it, built my first 1 prim table with it in 2 evenings, and dropped the tool due to lack of time. yet, within those 2 evenings (well and a free class, apart from a generous tip to the teacher) I understood more about sculpties, then after spending hours and hours in Blender.

Good luck and welcome in SL!

What I would do if I wanted to learn about sculpting is look for a good inworld sculpting group to join, where I could ask questions. I can't recommend one, because I've never looked for one, but I'd probably start by joining the Builders Exchange group and asking there for recommendations. I've often enough seen people there asking about sculpting groups and being directed to various other places. And, if you're lucky and make it clear you're already familiar with whatever third-party programme it is, you may well find someone there who can help.

The great thing about in-world groups, if you find the right ones, is that it means you don't have to spend a lot of time looking for people to help; all you need to do is ask your question and you'll probably find someone there who is on your time zone (or who can't sleep) who knows the answer and is happy to talk about it. That's the way scripting and animation groups work, anyway, and I presume it's similar for sculpting.

Original Poster - ie, on this thread, you. Sometimes also called TA, for Thread Author.



What is the "enjoyable SL experience" that you're looking for? What Innula said - and to some extent I agree with - is that if you don't actually enjoy the learning experience, chances are you won't enjoy the one that comes after you've learned, either.



I understand how you feel. The problem is that on SL there are a lot of new folks who _are_ just asking how to be spoon fed and make money. Usually it's for one of two reasons: a) LL was, at one stage, advertising SL entirely as a "place to make real money easily" and that stuck in some places; and b) lots of new users misunderstand the L$ system to be something like gold in a MMORPG, where earning it is part of the game and more or less automatic. If you are in neither of these positions, then you really need to demonstrate that to the person you're asking for help. Asking something explicit like, "How can I export a sculptie from Blender?" (instead of just asking for "help with sculpties" can help with that.



Because the incorrect belief about the nature of L$ is _so_ common that it dominates all requests for help. Seriously, you can't be a newbie helper for a month without having been asking "how do I make money?" at least a hundred times. Now I know and agree that it _is_ unfair that you, who are new to SL, have to deal with this kind of thing because of the position you've been put in by the hundred or so new folks who came before you.



When you're new, it's helpful to at least get used to regular building first because there are quite a lot of little niggles you need to learn in order to use sculpties first. Things like the rules for collisions and object coordinate systems are essential (you might know this already, but SL doesn't detect collisions on sculpted objects - they'll always collide as a sphere - so if you want them to collide realistically you have to build an invisible endoskeleton for them out of regular prims)

Thanks for the comments guys. There's a whole language of resident "speak" I still have to learn. What I thought would be an enjoyable experience was to be able to create an environment that has come from my imagination.... It’s not about, not enjoying the learning experience - in fact I like to learn new things - the problem is FINDING the learning or help when things don't work out, and as with all learning, it is not effective in isolation. ( we do not send our kids to schools without teachers, even correspondence courses have interactions with established professions in some shape or form)

The progress I make by "doing it myself", may satisfy my need to be successful at it - but in fact, I could be teaching myself the wrong way to do things, and would never know.

LOL - I have asked that exact question to people in world: "How can I export a sculptie from Blender?" to a couple of people, and all the responses I got was to "read the documentation". So after reading the documentation (several times) I still do not get it - So, I have to manually bake the UV to an image and then bake a texture map for Photoshop. I don't know what Python is, or how to get it to work, and I don't know how to get the different stitching methods in SL to work either.

I have already played with regular building prims, and followed much of the documentation I could find on them - you mention the "niggles" to learn.... I would have no idea what they would be, and could quite easily be under the impression that I had learnt all there is to know, unless I had interaction with an experienced person or these things were pointed out in world.

I understand that what I want to do is difficult, but that shouldn't mean that it’s not for me. I agree that a lot of creation happens outside of SL, and there are many confusing sites dedicated to different programs.... all this means, is that less and less time is spent in world to discover and meet new people.



Sorry, Marcel, I disagree with you here - you admit that you don't have time to help newbie’s (because of your business), so your conclusion is based on a limited experience with "current" newbies and on your own circle of friends. I have come across more helpful noobs, than established residents and am often in a situation where the blind has to help the blind. many new guys have approached me, because they find older residents unhelpful. The "vibe" is definitely not coming from inside me! Once again, it is the new guy that is at fault, because they do not know what experienced SL users are expecting from them!

I don't know why experienced people like to keep mentioning L$ and making money, and that it is not for newbies. I originally had no intention of getting into a discussion about making money in SL - but it has been referred to here quite a lot.

I don't think it is fair to new guys that they receive these kinds of responses from experienced people - who are obviously busy making $L themselves, when all over the SL website are information about earning money and having jobs in SL. There are even in world classes to teach people how to be DJ's and MC's in order to make money. LL openly advertises and discloses that $35 million real world dollars is traded between residents each month... with those kinds of figures, and all of the official guides mentioning it - it is only natural for a newbie to ask about making money! Heck - LL is even organising a special seminar for people that are doing business in SL! ... But the newbie gets shot down in flames, and discouraged if they ask.

Perhaps experienced residents should put together some guidelines on what exactly a noob has to learn first, and how long they have to wait, before they are allowed to ask about making money??

Anyway - my OP (I think I have used it in correct context) was mainly intended to ask about learning and how that works for people in SL. I understand now, that it is not all possible in world and has to be done in isolation outside of SL. This brings on its own set of problems, that can take an unnecessary long time to resolve.

*** Thankyou Yumi for the tip about the object collisions, and endoskeletons in SL - I had no idea about this, and don't recall seeing anything about it in the documentations that do exist... I have been wondering why I could not walk up close to the curved inside of my sculpt objects!!

I'm not sure how you've drawn this conclusion. The ivory tower of primitives is very useful, so is Fermi Sandbox. NCI is a great organisation with tutor led classes and Sculpt Studio has classes too, also check out Builders Brewery for information.

As for Blender, if you have patience, read this page:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Sculpted_Prims:_3d_Software_Guide

The Blender site tells you where to download python, it has been a while since I tried to use it so unfortunately I can't exactly remember the process but honestly, it wasn't difficult although I have to say learning Blender has tested my patience but I made a start and got my head around extruding. There's a plugin available for helping you export items for SL.

When I started I had a totally different experience than you describe. I like to learn by reading. I read knowledge base articles and tutorials. I frequented the content creators forums. When I was stuck I posted specific questions on the content creators forums for building and texturing. There are some very knowledgable people over there that answer questions. One person person stands out by the name of Chosen Few who is a master of all things computer graphical and takes the time to write long detailed posts. I learned so much from these kind folks who were so generous with their time creating tutorials and answering my questions. There are also people who make free utilities for sculpts there and answer questions about how to use them. This is an awesome community of people who enjoy teaching and making useful utilites and it is all at no charge.

All the folks expect of you on these forums is to try the tutorials and get as far as you can and then ask a specific question WHEN YOU GET STUCK. If you ask "how do I make sculpties" you will be referred to tutorials. If you say I was going through so-and-so's tutorial on how to export sculpts form blender and I tried this step but I got this problem, you will get help from six different directions. People want to help you but they need you to demonstrate that you are willing to get as far as you can on your own.

Well, it helps a lot to know what isn't working out. Some of the problems with building are genuinely things which it helps to find yourself before asking about.



That's ok. Once you know the wrong way it's much easier to learn the right one.



Well, if you think you have learned all you need then get out and build the stuff you want to, and if it goes well and you're able to do it, why'd you need to learn more?



It's not really that. It's that once you really understand what business in SL is, you'd realise it doesn't make sense to ask that question. It's like walking into a bank and asking them, "How can I start a business that will make a profit?" It doesn't make sense, because a) if there was a simple answer to that question then everyone would be doing it, and b) the answer is going to be different for everyone because people have different niches, abilities and talents.

By the way, learning can be done within SL, it's just difficult to do so for sculpties.

There are Blender forums one can ask questions at, but if that is not real-time enough to suit, there are supposedly Blender IRC channels.

The info below comes from
http://www.blendernation.com/getting-started-in-blender-irc/

I have not checked these myself, so this info could be out of date, but here are the names and descriptions:


Info on installing an IRC program is available on the web. I found mIRC to be simple enough to set up. There are some web based IRC clients, there's bound to be a Firefox addon, if you happen to use the Opera browser it comes with a built in IRC client.

----

I see an inworld group called Blender, with 655 members, open join. That might be a place to ask a guestion
at.

Also there's "sculpting and 3d modeling in sl", another inworld group.

Also there's "Area 55", Domino's group for discussion of his Blender scripts for sculpty making.

Plus, there's "Sculpted Prims of SecondLife", also an inworld group.

One of the groups I am member of is the Cartel group, and I see what happens there when some noob asks for help. And that is just one of the places. Many others already have been mentioned. So yes, there are many residents willing to help noob users, as I said: we all were one. Whenever I meet one in my store, due to lack of time I give them a new residents kit so they can find stuff for (almost) free, and a few hundres lindens so they can buy some stuff. Hell even reading these forums shows how many helpful people there are.


No one gets shot in flames for asking, at least I never saw that happen.
But do not foget (mainly because of the website probably ) that many new residents ask, before anything, how to make lindens. The regular answer is: buying them. And it is the best way too. In order to earn money, it takes experience in SL, and a lot of effort in general. Actually cashing out to real dollars is only done by a very small percentage of people (anyone knows the actual percentage?), most businesses fail.


They should not have their focus on making money. Of course if they like to have a SL job that pays 100 linden an hour, they can ask, and will be guided to the right places, but most people here know the value of those 100 linden. when a dollar buys you 270 lindens (about), why work an hour for 100 linden?


Well I guided you to a possible way of learning to sculpt inworld. If Blender is your chosen tool, the web will be your best friend. Be aware of the fact you are choosing the most difficult entry into Sl though. On the other hand, mastering Blender can give you an advatage in this world, and future 3d worlds as well I would think.

Is this any good? http://www.masterprim.com/class/how-to-use-blender-create-second-life-sculpted-prim? I've only skimmed it, but the instructions for installing the scripts and making and exporting the prim seemed, at first glance, pretty similar to what I remember doing -- successfully, it's maybe important to add -- when I was trying to learn Blender.