Speak out now or be gagged later. The more writers, artists and developers
NCSF Incident Response: http://www.ncsfreedom.org/incident.htm
ACLU Legal Assistance: http://www.aclu.org/affiliates/
You may contact the ACLU affiliate local to Linden Labs' home state, or get in touch with as many local offices as you like, since SL spans nationwide and beyond. Be sure to make them understand that enforcement of the 'Keeping Second Life Safe Together' policy (here: http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/05/31/keeping-second-life-safe-together/) effectively overrules the Supreme Court's judgment on the unconstitutionality of COPA, and criminalize creative ventures that have had heavy investments of time and money.
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Free Speech Resources: National Coalition For Sexual Freedom and the ACLU |
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Prodigal Maeterlinck
Registered User
Join date: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 136
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06-01-2007 04:21
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Morwen Bunin
Everybody needs a hero!
Join date: 8 Dec 2005
Posts: 1,743
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06-01-2007 04:35
Okay.... and now in a way everyone can understand it.... even us dumb Europeans?
Morwen. |
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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06-01-2007 05:19
I'm not a big supporter of the ACLU in RL , although sometimes they have taken stances I agree with, but I don't see them having any ground to stand on in SL. As much as we may object to any policy statement The Providers make, they own the *call it what you wish* that is Second Life. just as you can say what can go on in your home in RL, so can they whether we like it or not. They can ban, disallow, endorse, anything, person or behavior they want. being the owners of SL they are not subject to any Free Speech provisions. We can do several things: We can quietly conform to whatever guidelines are set out, we can voice objections to LL and hope they listen to some degree, maybe on Central Group like ACLU as a rally point could help, we can use economic measures,ie: cancel premium memberships, or only pay monthly, or head to the door. Personally, option 1 is not acceptable to me, some combination of the others will be the road to take. *Starts moving a little closer to the door*
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Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com |
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Livinda Goodliffe
Squeaky Wheel
Join date: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 215
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06-01-2007 05:29
The ACLU is the American Civil Liberties Union. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACLU
My opinion is that they would defend, in court, against Linden Lab, anyone that is terminated or resources seized by Linden Lab under thier TOS. Linden Lab's TOS was ruled "Unconscionable!" by the US District Court for the District of Pennsylvania, read it here: http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2007/05/unconscionable_.html Also read this: http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2007/06/fear_and_loathi.html In my opinion, Second Life needs a clear, concise, fair and understandable TOS. Not one that is one sided. And also, they need to quit being so wishy-washy on thier policies. Seems they arbitrarily enforce policies in only particular cases, and let slide others...  |
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Broccoli Curry
I am my alt's alt's alt.
Join date: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 1,660
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06-01-2007 05:34
Okay.... and now in a way everyone can understand it.... even us dumb Europeans? No need, it's a waste of time. In a private environment such as Second Life, real life expectations do not apply. In other words, the US constitutional 'right' of free speech and expression is completely irrelevant in this situation - and even if it was, less than 30% of the playerbase would be affected because americans are in the minority here anyway. The ACLU has no teeth in a virtual world. Broccoli _____________________
~ This space has been abandoned as I can no longer afford it.
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Chris Norse
Loud Arrogant Redneck
Join date: 1 Oct 2006
Posts: 5,735
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06-01-2007 05:44
Agreed Broccoli.
If LL wanted to make every AV wear pink hippo suits and dance the hokey pokey as a condition of using SL, they would have every right. I am not saying the residents should not voice opinion or try to change policy, but this is an issue for the free market, not the courts. |
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Broccoli Curry
I am my alt's alt's alt.
Join date: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 1,660
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06-01-2007 05:51
I don't see Linden Lab as actually "banning sex" either... just making sure residents label their land as "adult" and those who want to access such material verify themselves as being over 18.
Drugs are illegal in the real world where I live, but it doesn't stop people dealing or doing them. They're just shunted a bit out of the way of prying eyes, and when you see someone breaking the law (or in SL's case, the ToS), you report them. Linden Lab can't be everywhere all the time, so there will still be plenty of questionable material going on - by anyone's standards, something will be considered suspect, somewhere - it's just a case of abiding by the rules and being sensible not to push it. Broccoli _____________________
~ This space has been abandoned as I can no longer afford it.
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Livinda Goodliffe
Squeaky Wheel
Join date: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 215
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06-01-2007 05:53
Agreed Broccoli. If LL wanted to make every AV wear pink hippo suits and dance the hokey pokey as a condition of using SL, they would have every right. I am not saying the residents should not voice opinion or try to change policy, but this is an issue for the free market, not the courts. Unfortunantly; when you involve RL economy within this virtual environment; you also involve many of the RL laws. This is such a vague and unknown territory we enter into..Is Second Life to be treated like a separate country, with it's own laws and such, or do they fall under US law...or do they fall under a separate pseudo-jurisdiction. I don't know...I'm not a lawyer. |
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Broccoli Curry
I am my alt's alt's alt.
Join date: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 1,660
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06-01-2007 05:58
The best solution for Linden Lab, although I don't personally agree, is to have something like the following on sign up (cobbled together from an adult site found using Google)
"I am of legal adult age and have the legal right to possess adult material in my community (18 in most US states and in Canada; 21 in AL, MS, NE, WY). I understand the standards and laws of the community to which I am transporting this material, and am solely responsible for my actions If I use the services of this site in violation of the above agreement, I understand I may be in violation of local and federal laws." Then the onus is on you not to break your local laws, and not necessarily based on what may be considered acceptable in California, home of Linden Lab. Broccoli _____________________
~ This space has been abandoned as I can no longer afford it.
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Prodigal Maeterlinck
Registered User
Join date: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 136
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06-01-2007 06:01
What do you mean by 'pushing it', how much free expression is too much? Are you suggesting that there should be an authority over grown adults to determine what speech and images they should be able to produce or enjoy?
Now surely Linden Labs has the right to house rules, but if they're seizing assets they themselves have made assets on the ground of arbitrarily determined house rules _after_ the assets were purchased, then it's actionable on civil and first amendment grounds. Okay.... and now in a way everyone can understand it.... even us dumb Europeans? I have not researched any European analogue to these organizations, but I bet if you really felt it was in your best interest to have that coalition to protect your right to expression, you would have the motivation to seek out such organizations yourself. And other Europeans may appreciate you posting those contacts here, so I'd gladly amend the OP to include them. |
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Brenda Connolly
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Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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06-01-2007 06:05
Speak out now or be gagged later. Wouldn't that fall under BDSM and be "Broadly Offensive"?  _____________________
Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com |
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Broccoli Curry
I am my alt's alt's alt.
Join date: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 1,660
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06-01-2007 06:10
Now surely Linden Labs has the right to house rules, but if they're seizing assets they themselves have made assets on the ground of arbitrarily determined house rules _after_ the assets were purchased, then it's actionable on civil and first amendment grounds. Actually, not necessarily. I seem to recall a while ago that the ToS changed and we had to click an acceptance box on sign-up before we could log in. If they decided that green hair was now deemed offensive, and you ticked a box to agree that you would not wear green hair in Second Life, then it is your own fault for choosing to continue to wear green hair after having logged in and had an opportunity to change your hairstyle. If someone reports you for still having green hair, then you are fully deserving of the disciplinary action, regardless of whether you think it is deserved or not. Ok, so I'm not saying for one minute that most of us find green hair offensive, so I picked something obscure to illustrate the point - but if we are now being given a warning that soon something will no longer be permitted, we have the opportunity to comply before we have to. In July, a law comes in in the UK that bans smoking in public places. Some places have already gone smoke-free in preparation for this, others are sticking it out till the last minute. Those that don't comply with the legislation will find themselves being penalised heavily financially. Broccoli _____________________
~ This space has been abandoned as I can no longer afford it.
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Prodigal Maeterlinck
Registered User
Join date: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 136
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06-01-2007 07:18
Actually, not necessarily. I seem to recall a while ago that the ToS changed and we had to click an acceptance box on sign-up before we could log in. |
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Prodigal Maeterlinck
Registered User
Join date: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 136
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06-01-2007 07:34
I've sent this off to ACLU, and a similar to NCSF:
I'm the director of Upstart Foundation, a 501(c)(3) non-profit, and owner and developer of an online adult fantasy RPG based in Second Life. There hasn't been an incident yet, but I'd like to bring this to your attention before there is one, and request referral to any KAP who would represent me and others in the potential legal challenges inherent in it. Second Life is a vastly scalable multi-user environment that has seen an exponential swelling of new membership in the last year. Linden Labs has always encouraged the production of member content, but lately seems to be scaling back rights to expression in proportion to the increase in membership. Linden Labs new policy now encourages members to report each other for creation of content that is 'broadly offensive' or 'potentially illegal', and promises to seize commercial assets, and destroy intellectual assets that were formerly permitted. The full text of the policy can be found here, as well as many resident's response to it: http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/05/31/keeping-second-life-safe-together/ Linden Labs has boasted, quite truthfully, that they have created a new interface on the Internet, as broad and diverse as the World Wide Web itself. But now they seek to police it in ways that the World Wide Web, and their own Second Life, cannot be consistently enforced. It's the inconsistency with which it can be enforced, with which expression can be selectively silenced, that is alarming. There are hundreds of thousands of adult residents who, whether they engage in alternative lifestyles in their real lives or not, enjoy exploring a variety of lifestyle and extreme fantasy within simulated 3D settings. I have notified all owners of such roleplay environments of how the new policy will affect them, and asked them to report any enforcements to me and to you. If you have any further questions, I'd be glad to answer them, and encourage you to get informed of this situation. And if a KAP representative is willing to act as a deterrent to this violation of free expression rights, please forward this email address to them. Cameron Jenkins Upstart Foundation, Director Bonds of Beauty, Director and Administrator |
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Broccoli Curry
I am my alt's alt's alt.
Join date: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 1,660
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06-01-2007 08:39
So I would not be actionable if they restricted me from assets I purchased under another TOS, if I don't agree to new TOS that effectively demolishes a part or whole of those assets? I'm not sure where you studied law... I didn't. Neither did you, by the sound of it, if you think that objecting to a new ToS means you don't have to abide by it when you log in. Right now, these new guidelines are not part of the ToS. You've now been given advance notice by Linden Lab that things are changing, and you have until they are incorporated to sort out whatever it is you sell. I can see it now when your letter lands at the ACLU : "Let me get this straight, this guy wants our help for something that happened in a computer game?" You do realise, of course, that by doing that you've made yourself a target for every person who will want to go round 'cleaning up' SL, and may find yourself being the next Marc Bragg? I'd also question your statistics of "hundreds of thousands of adult residents who, whether they engage in alternative lifestyles in their real lives or not, enjoy exploring a variety of lifestyle and extreme fantasy within simulated 3D settings." Broccoli _____________________
~ This space has been abandoned as I can no longer afford it.
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Brenda Connolly
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Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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06-01-2007 08:43
I would agree, the ACLU has more important things to do, there are many real life injustices that they can fight.
And Who the Hell is Marc Bragg? I've seen that name several times alrady. _____________________
Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com |
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Najmah Handayani
(aka Toy LaFollette)
Join date: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 154
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06-01-2007 08:55
actually the whole TOS seems to be falling apart.......
http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/files/robreno_order.pdf _____________________
"We could learn a lot from crayons: some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, some have weird names, and all are different colors ... but they all have to learn to live in the same box."
___________________________________ Textures by Naj |
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Broccoli Curry
I am my alt's alt's alt.
Join date: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 1,660
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06-01-2007 08:58
And Who the Hell is Marc Bragg? I've seen that name several times alrady. http://www.stratics.com/content/portals/sl/index.php?slo=1#newsitem1180640692,80372, or http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2007/05/unconscionable_.html Broccoli _____________________
~ This space has been abandoned as I can no longer afford it.
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poopmaster Oh
The Best Person On Earth
Join date: 9 Mar 2007
Posts: 917
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06-01-2007 09:00
he (bragg) bought a whole sim for 300 bucks by bidding and winning on a sim that was not really up for sale (he edited the 'auction id number in the url by hand')
so LL took his land away he bought like this and closed his account he is a lawyer and sue'd LL to get his money back and his land and virtual items LL said to the courts in response to his lawsuit 1) You cant sue phill only the company 2) the TOS says you can not sue at all the courts said yesterday, or the day before 1) you can sue phill 2) the TOS is total BS and means nothing to courts. so the trail will go on _____________________
InSL u find every kind of no-life retard you could possibly imagine as well as a few even Tim Burton couldnt imagine u find 12yr-olds claiming to be 40 men claiming 2 be women, women claiming 2 make sense and every1 claiming 2 have ideas that are actually worth a damn if only someone would just listen to their unique innovative and exceptionally important idea
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Brenda Connolly
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Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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06-01-2007 09:11
Thank you, an interesting read. as was the the article Prokofky wrote on the current morality manifesto.
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Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com |
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Aleister Montgomery
Minding the gap
Join date: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 846
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06-01-2007 09:44
the courts said yesterday, or the day before 1) you can sue phill 2) the TOS is total BS and means nothing to courts. That's what I always assumed. A TOS that states "whatever we sell you, we will keep ownership and can take it away any time without refunding you" can't possibly uphold in court. Now imagine a class action lawsuit of people who got banned and robbed of their land because of creating "broadly offensive content". |
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Kidd Krasner
Registered User
Join date: 1 Jan 2007
Posts: 1,938
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06-01-2007 10:17
he (bragg) bought a whole sim for 300 bucks by bidding and winning on a sim that was not really up for sale (he edited the 'auction id number in the url by hand') Is that it? Why didn't Linden give him his $300, keep him banned, and be done with it? They must have already spent more in legal fees than the cost of settling at the start. |
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Sweet Primrose
Selectively Vacuous
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 375
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06-01-2007 10:32
Broccoli said:
I can see it now when your letter lands at the ACLU : "Let me get this straight, this guy wants our help for something that happened in a computer game?" . . . Ahh, so SL is just a game after all....and not a service akin to the internet... Even so, the ACLU helped a gay guild in WoW force Blizzard (the publisher of the game WoW) to permit their presence and advertise their existance. Freedom of expression in SL is every bit as real as freedom of expression in any other medium. Don't listen to the naysayers. I think the ACLU would be very much interested in teaching LL the limits of their ability to police content. There is PLENTY of precident for "private" services being taught what they can and cannot regulate, and the argument that LL can do what they want doesn't hold water. LL is due for a little education. |
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Chris Norse
Loud Arrogant Redneck
Join date: 1 Oct 2006
Posts: 5,735
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06-01-2007 11:12
Unfortunantly; when you involve RL economy within this virtual environment; you also involve many of the RL laws. This is such a vague and unknown territory we enter into..Is Second Life to be treated like a separate country, with it's own laws and such, or do they fall under US law...or do they fall under a separate pseudo-jurisdiction. I don't know...I'm not a lawyer. Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Amendment 14 Section 1 Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Doesn't say anything about about a private company being required to provide or protect freedom of expression. That is what we are talking about freedom of expression. (in the US anyway, I do realize some expressions of thought are illegal in other nations.) If I were LL, I would tell the ACLU to go find a hanging piece of braided hemp and urinate upwards. |
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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06-01-2007 11:22
Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Amendment 14 Section 1 Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Doesn't say anything about about a private company being required to provide or protect freedom of expression. That is what we are talking about freedom of expression. (in the US anyway, I do realize some expressions of thought are illegal in other nations.) If I were LL, I would tell the ACLU to go find a hanging piece of braided hemp and urinate upwards. LOL! At least that would show some backbone.... _____________________
Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com |