Automated Object Indexing and Privacy Concerns

the one he read 5 out of 75 pages and didnt miss anything.

Sometimes it is amazing the spin you put on things, Colette.

The angle *I* was coming from was that the Lindens should (and rightly so) approach it from a standpoint of "First, do no harm". THAT was the basis of my post, and THAT was why I considered it a positive.

They are taking a wait-and-see attitude instead of immediately jumping on something which has yet to be proven to be an issue that isn't already solved by the existing rules and systems in-place. Instead of a knee-jerk reaction (which you seem to want more than anything), I want to see them think through it. My personal stance is that it isn't an issue worthy of their time, compared to other issues. I've yet to see any real evidence to the contrary, DESPITE a few people getting bitten by not managing their risks properly.

I am *happy* with the current level of "privacy" in SL. I don't own any private estates; I work on one as a manager. Privacy costs me a friendship and support effort to someone who does. I don't CARE if the SheepBot indexes my land on the mainland, nor do I care if some goofy system tracks my whereabouts. If someone misuses the information, they are due for an introduction to the wrong end of an AR (or worse ). If I truly need to have some privacy in SL, I know of quite a few places where I can get it; some free, some cheap, and I ALWAYS have the option of either purchasing my own sim (highly unlikely), or going in with others to get one (maybe). As a result, I have no *need* to curtail what I see as others' freedoms to explore and utilize SL in ways others haven't thought of.



So is management-by-crisis. Sucks just as bad, too.

Its the SAME thing.

I think looking at this as a "bot" problem misses the point.

The issues that people have concern two things primarily: privacy and swooping to buy items set for sale cheap that aren't meant to be for sale. By getting rid of the Sheepbot or bots in general, neither of these issues are really addressed.

If we need better privacy in SL, than we should ask for and promote true privacy measures. For instance, make it so that parcels can be "invisible". No one can see any object or avatar on a parcel marked invisible, unless they have access to that parcel. Not only would this prevent bots from snooping your parcel and indexing all the objects, it would keep everyone else out as well. Imagine a whole sim like this, everyone has a perfect view from their parcel and can enjoy complete privacy. I'm sure many would welcome this.

As for bots swooping in to buy objects set for sale, or indexing them so others can do that, we need a system to transfer objects to specific avatar. Just like land, there should be a way to set an object for sale to a particular person. I'm sure every custom builder in SL would love to be able to transfer builds and objects in a safer manner than they do today. Again, if LL would make a change like this, another objection to Sheepbot disappears.

The same goes for Landbots and most forms of potential Copybots, etc. The problem usually isn't the bot, per se. It's that the bot highlights weaknesses in SL's infrastructure, by exploiting them. In some cases, perhaps certain bots should be banned or curtailed, but I think it would be a much better use of people's energy to work to get changes in the SL infrastructure which address their concerns.

I don't really understand the issue... ESC basically helps SL businesses to sell their wares, for free, and also helps customers to find these wares faster and at the lowest price (like many price-comparing websites, which are a blessing for the internet shopper). And you expect them to ask everyone for permission because some people want to set things for sale that aren't really for sale?

I'd rather request a new feature from LL that allows the easy transfer of all prims on a plot of land. "Buy prims" in addition to "buy land", with the option to specify a user. As for privacy, we have tools already; land can be set to group access or an access list. There are also home security orbs.

lol

coco

Not necessarily.

Just set land to restrict scripts to resident/group members only and / or no outside object entry. Dead bots = no info. This works on a parcel by parcel basis, too.

Would this work on bots and others camera-viewing the parcel from outside the parcel?

I do truly believe that there would not be many problems in the world if people simply respected each other.

The bot doesn't need to physically move around, it can just scan the entire sim from one spot. Technically it wouldn't even need to be present on a sim at all so while banning it from a sim will stop sheepbot, it won't stop the concept of a searchbot from scanning areas that are not public, be it parcels or whole neighbouring sims it doesn't have access to.

Bots aren't scripted in the SL sense so this won't accomplish anything. It's a self contained program that connects to SL the exact same way we all do with the official viewer.

That, and:

Hanlon's Law: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. (?Robert Heinlein)

People are so quick to assume the foul motives when, often, ignorance is to blame. It results in retaliation instead of attempts to educate.

I thought it was Napoleon who said that? In anycase, I definitely agree.

I've never had an item that wasn't a freebie in my inventory that was still marked "for sale".

If someone takes a copy, who cares?

This could be the solution to a real google like search for SL.

It needs work but please let's not kill this in the bud.

Builders often set things to "sell original" for $0 so that the client can buy the build in place. I've only done it when the client was right there to buy it. However, this controversy started when someone set some no copy furniture items for sale to transfer them to the client. Sheepbot saw the items, listed them and people came by and bought them up before the client came back online to buy them.

I don't understand, why would someone set furniture out at sale to $0 rather than drop it in their inventory? Sheepbot aside, anyone could have come along and taken them.

Because part of the service the builder is providing is the positioning of prims, which can be tricky for a beginner and is time consuming.

Imagine you have made a large custom build for someone with lots of pieces including furniture. Are you going to build it, link it into many parts and then drop it on your client, and have your client try to rez it and reposition it? No. It's far better to get them to come to the build and buy the original of everything in place, piece by piece. It's my understanding that many builders (including me) do just that.

Yes I agree that anyone could come by and take them. That's what happened to spark the that monster thread. I would only use that method of transfer with the owner standing right there ready to buy it piece by piece.

Yes , exactly.

And the idea that Electric Sheep didnt know Sims were built this way as common practice is not credible.

Id never do it with access allowed or the buyer right there either, but people did do that commonly as well. The Island was unlisted which people do forget.