Age Verification: A NEW SOLUTION :)

Box and sell the next patch in retail outlets, priced just enough to cover the shipping/packaging with an M rating on the label. Future patches would only be available to those who had this "verified" version but could be downloadable.

Retail outlets already must abide by age verification law in selling the product.

And I'd be much more content showing my ID to the clerk behind the counter, KNOWING FOR CERTAIN that it isn't being stored, rather than giving that and a lot more over to two companies who's record on data protection is not exactly impressive.

AND....you can then, AND ONLY THEN, be sure there are no underage on the grid. If there are, it's someone else's liability: the retail store owner.

OMG, how simple, how elegant, how easy, how difficult to thwart, how safe!

EDIT: Improved solution a few responses down. Whee, I'm excited!

Um, I ALREADY pay LL my monthly premium member fees... now i'm supposed to drive my butt down to the mall, find parking, hope that the local software store has the new SL release (what, once every month?) and pay for THAT too?

It's a great idea but won't fly...

Not to mention that at least half of residents SL reside outside of the USA with different laws.

Plus I don't know who well LL is equipped to offset the production and distribution costs

Unfortunately, many parents buy their children M-rated games all the time, apparantly because most M-ratings are for violence and - certainly in the USA and UK at least - most people don't seem to care much about that.

If you were to put lots of near-explicit sexual images on the box to emphasise that this one was M-rated for the other reason, it would probably work, but most stores would refuse to carry it and even most 18+ people would refuse to buy it in a place where they could be seen. Plus, there is no way that Linden Labs would ever want to market their product that way (and this is actually a big barrier to working age verification: most parents will be happy to slip their kids past most age barriers if it seems to the parents that the barrier is there for no reason, just as a legal niggle - so as long as LL keep the existance of pornography in SL secret or "on the sly", there's always this risk).

Either way, they could buy it from an internet retailer which would just be credit card verification all over again.

/wanders through store..being slowly immersed into a coma by muzak..notices product called 'Second Life' on shelf.

"hmmk, '3D online digital world imagined, created and owned by its residents'. Little Johnny Upstairs will love that!"

/places Second Life into trolley and wanders towards the till to pay.

Plus there's a cost factor:

/me puts down my lunch and put's my cost accountant hat on....

There is the cost of packaging, cost of the inserts for the box, cost of printing for the packaging & the instructions for installation, cost of the CD's material, cost of burning the CD, cost of power to run the machines to do all this, cost of payroll for the employees who will do nothing but create these upgrade packages & prepare them for shipping instead of working on other SL tasks, Cost of shipping to the various software distributors (we won't even consider the impractical possibility of shipping to individual stores, cost of attorneys to negotiate agreements with those software distributors. Then, the distributors will want a cut of the revenue as will the stores; The store's shelf space has a cost attached to it and they won't release it for a free upgrade.

So that upgrade won't be free. I estimate that even if Linden kept it down to a break even point, then the upgrade would run around US$15 to $20 retail.

excellent point Stephanie. it would be a very expensive logistical nightmare, and for what in return? a dramatically reduced signup rate because the product is now so inaccessible?

Second Life: Available in a local Adult Bookstore near you!

Let me improve the idea then:

1. Don't package the game itelf. No box needed. This could be just a "Verification Card" with a rub-off code on the back, similar to game cards for other franchises (WoW and Everquest). The sole purpose of the card is to verify yourself as an adult. One time. No need to upgrade product....ever.

2. Keep the card behind the counter (most stores do this with game cards already). Make sure the "M" for mature is clearly displayed.

3. The objection about other countries is false. World of Warcraft is readily avialable in retail outlets world-wide. That different countries have different rules IS A POSITIVE, because then buyers in those countries are complying with their LOCAL regulations.

4. The entire purpose of age verification is to shift legal responsibility from LL and in-game vendors to the user. This solution does exactly that. If a parent still buys SL for their child, despite the mature rating, then they clearly are to blame.

5. If necessary, make this an option. People who are ready to fling their identies to the wind with the plan LL is about to foist on everyone may do so. Those of us who do not wish to threaten our real life identities for the sake of a video game may purchase at retail this Verification Card. This should alleviate the concern of the people who wouldn't want to pay more for this.

How about some creative brainstorming people. Improve on this idea. I sure am NOT going to be doing what LL currently proposes, and I am confident I am in the majority on this issue. All your businesses will suffer. Not just the adult ones. All of them, as we lose interest in a place where most of the world is inaccessible and leave SL altogether. So start getting creative with me!

nice idea, but as pointed out, people dont want to have to go and buy something else for this sake.

also, shop owners are nowhere near as strict with selling games as they aught to be, depsite the penalties for selling to underaged people (although it may be different elsewhere in the world, I'm in the UK).
the blame still falls on the games if they end up in the hands of minors, (the 'ol video game violence breeds real violence etc thingy) despite them being clearly marked as not for minors.

but, I shall stop there as this isnt the place for me to rant about misinformed blame-placing politicians and journalists

"5. If necessary, make this an option. People who are ready to fling their identies to the wind with the plan LL is about to foist on everyone may do so. Those of us who do not wish to threaten our real life identities for the sake of a video game may purchase at retail this Verification Card. This should alleviate the concern of the people who wouldn't want to pay more for this."

I think I already covered your objection.

i like the idea.

but what most people forget the "age and IDENTITY" verification.
i didn´t get that too in the beginning. but there was a huge coverage of the problem LL is facing at the moment in german tv over the last 2 or 3 days.

german investigators found stuff in sl that is illegal in most countrys i think. they didn´t show it in the reports, but they showed robins face when she saw it and only by seeing her face i can imagine why LL is trying to figure out ways to get the identitys of the users.

i am really against this "integrity" stuff, but i can see now why some kind of verification is neccesary.

the only thing i can suggest is that LL should offer more options to verify (not only integrity)
that would be ok to many users i think, if we could choose a company we trust. and it should be for all users, not only people who want adult stuff... just my 2 cents

btw i will not verify with integrity!

You could always buy it online!

Rather than having people go down to the local convenience/software/whatever store and buying a scratch off card (available only upon showing an ID), we might as well go whole hog and go down to our personal banks and get a notary public to look at our ID and, using a preprinted LL form, sign the "yup this person is who I say he is" part, and email it to LL. No need to release ANY information to LL regarding age or SS numbers. A signed letter by a notary public should hold up in any court of law. And is usually FREE from a member's personal bank.

It'd be sort of embarrassing, tho.... "Hi I'm playing this adult game and I need you to tell the makers that I really am an adult..."

An interesting flaw in the whole identity verification system proposed by LL. The short form is: invoices often have separate "bill to:" and "ship to:" addresses.

Suppose I bought my membership with my spouse's credit card but want to verify my identity to LL. As far as LL knows now, I am Malachi Petunia and my payment information is in the name and address of Joan Q. Public. Whose credentials will they accept to "verify" me?

My recently deceased, hypothetical mother-in-law was living with us. Her social security number is available to me and her address matches mine.

The crux of the problem is that they want Second Life to be as authenticatable as Real Life. As so many are concerned about identity theft through LL/Integrity misuse of information, so too is the verification subject to misuse of the same sort of information.

have you considered how much it would cost to prepare this product (manufacturing costs), get it into stores (marketing and transporation costs), in every major town and city across the entire world? just putting your product into fancy packaging doesn't compel anybody, anywhere to sell it. what if my local store doesn't sell it? what will i do then?

also, let's not forget the key point: this is as much (if not more) about indemnifying LL against litigation costs, should a minor gain access adult content in SL, as it is about preventing them from accessing it in the first place.

how does your solution indemnify LL exactly?

before you answer that question, I ask you: isn't it down to a government sponsored classification board to decide which age ranges should be legally restricted from buying your product? ie. rockstar games don't send shipments of GTA: San Andreas DVDs over here to England and put them in stores with the instruction not to sell them to people under 18. rather, a classification board makes that decision.

is it really possible for somebody to manufacture a piece of paper or a DVD containing no obscene content whatsoever (like the Second Life client) and tell a store they're breaking the law if they sell it to under-18s? i'm not sure it is.

just throwing a few concerns into the pot.

What about those who are disabled who are "home bound" and cant go to these places to get a card, go to the bank or get a letter from a notary? I think we should all just don't verify.

I understand there are kids on the grid. And sure mommy or Daddy gave the credit card for them to join (before it was free). But I think anyone holding enough land and paying tier month after month shows a certain amount of maturity. If they are paying tier by CC how many parents will allow hundreds of $$ each month paid to a online game for Johnny or Sally?

It has been said that premium players should get something for the money we spend each month well this could be one of the things. Not have to be put through the wringer or maybe even looked down upon because our profile will not say we are "verified" just like what happened when people weren't a paid account. Some were banned because they didn't have payment on file.

The client AND service are free.

Aquiring land and L$ gets expensive...
and has little to do with age verification.

Just say "NO!" to $*#(&@#$ing freebie resellers.

Cant people sell their mature merchandise on sl exchange and sl boutique? Or will you need to be verified to shop there now ?

Elinah

OK, I was driving home from work, thinking about this. I had to sit right down and type it all out before i forget it.

We have basically 3 camps of people here: 1 group who feels secure with Integrity's database and is willing to input their personal data into this database in order to be age verified. The second group is willing to be age/identity verified but is not willing to disclose personal information. From what I gather this MIGHT be most of us on this forum. The third group believes that we should not be required to verify age/identity at all, as usually credit cards are enough.

Here is another possible solution:

First off, LL continues to hire the services of Integrity, with one addition: Integrity also purchases/utilizes a database of currently licensed notary publics of each nation.

Second, upon entering SL, a user is asked to verify his/her identity/age. He had 3 choices: a) enter his personal information using the main Integrity database b)notary public or c)none of the above, whereupon he remains unverified.

Option a) would be done as the Lindens have currently suggested.

Upon choosing option b) the user would be forwarded to a printable page containing a RANDOMLY GENERATED UNIQUE IDENTIFYING NUMBER. The user prints out this page which roughly states the following :

Linden Labs
123 main street
anytown anycountry

I, ____________, the undersigned notary public do hereby declare that John Q. Public is of verifiable identity and is over the age of 18 years.

(signature)

User takes this form to local notary public (I have 3 where I work and 2 at my local bank) gets it signed and stamped. Here is the important part. EVERY NOTARY PUBLIC HAS A UNIQUE IDENTIFYING NUMBER. Every notary is required to enter in her records book that she has signed and notarized X piece of paper for X person for X purpose on X date.

User goes home and upon re-entering the SL notary verification page, enters the RANDOMLY GENERATED NUMBER ON THE PIECE OF PAPER and the NOTARY'S UNIQUE NUMBER. These numbers are matched using the Intgretity notary public database and boom, user is in.

User keeps form. Notary keeps records that notary has signed form. All is safe. No personal data has exchanged hands. If a child is ever found to have somehow filched a notary's number and falsified the form, the notary in question will have no record of having signed the form. LL and notary are released from legal harm.

What do you think?

Or another possible solution.
LL and aristotle drop the big pretence that verifying anyone out in the real world has even the slightest bearing on the virtual world.

Person A plays SL and grabs a form. Person B takes form to bank or wherever to get it stamped. Person A = verified on the grid.

It will not end with them requesting your last 4 digits of SSN, drivers license, passport. This problem can never be solved, so they will just keep requiring more and more proof from you.

I think you are right - as visibility increases of internet adult content the verifications will continue to escalate till either a court strikes it down - or someone realizes they cant escalate it any further without looking like a lunatic.

I would be a lot happier with age verification if it weren't OPTIONAL.

This proposal is tantamount to merging the Adult and Teen grids, and decriminalizes minorrs on the main grid, by segregating and pseudo-criminalizing adult content on what has traditionally been "the adults only grid".

As a maker of both Adult and "regular" goods and services on the Adult grid.. I am very concerned with the "brown paper wrapper" approach. Now, if you're not verified, my lands and stores will be enclosed behind a (presumably opaque) ban line of some sort.

The grid's gonna be a lovely place.

So what? LL is absolved from responsibility, which is what they're after in the first place. Besides that, if it ever came to a court battle, person A and person B would be judged guilty of fraud (or whatever it's called.)