There may be Reds amongst us!

I just logged into SL to find an announcemnt on the Seller's Guild that a list was being compiled of suspected Copybot users. This sent a chill down my spine. I sent the compiler an IM stating that they better put me on the list as I picked up a copy on the first day to try to get some firsthand data as to it's threat potential (paid $2900 lindens for the sake of sanity over rumor-mongering). I recieved a curt threat to report me to LL, but as I haven't even touched it since the first hours of the panic, plus anyone who's seen my work will realize it's not a copy of anything, and since I have the layered photoshop docs to back up my work, I'm not particularly worried. I don't in any way endorse Copybot's use, and I think it remains grossly irresponsible of LL to have allowed this degree of access to our IP to a third party.

However...

It's amazing how empowered people get in times of crisis, justifying ridiculous transgressions in the name of security. Like the Red scare of the 50's, like racial profiling today. Like frigging "Monster's Are Due on Maple Street"!

I thought scripted genitals was the biggest waste of bandwidth - I was wrong: ressurecting Roy Cohn is.

So boycott Second Thoughts if you like - I make victorian men's wear primarily, so if it's survived two world wars, it'll weather this too.

Well, since this is exactly what King Phillip suggested doing at today's town hall, that we handle this ourselves, that LL isn't in the policing business, that they don't even want to deal with copyright allegations and passed the responsibility for dispute resolution onto the residents..... expect more of it.

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Perhaps someone should advise them that they better be very sure of their facts and have documented evidence to back-up the blacklisting of any resident. Every member of that group is opening themselves up to a libel law suit that can be brought against them as a Group and individualy in any state or Federal District where a wrongfully blacklisted resident resides. *

And if you doubt that a very real potential for a subsatntial recovery exists in such a case you are hiding in ignorance. Branding someone as a thief is not a matter to be treated casually.


* The above comprises general legal information and is not tailored to the needs of any specific person.

I read that earlier today and the first thing that came to mind was the huge potential for abuse inherent in such a system absent procedural safeguards to give any person named an opportunity to defend him/herself.

Sure. what the F do the Lindens care about libel if they are laying off any responsibilty onto the community.

For this very reason, in no other gaming platform is disciplinary action taken against a member of the community without an independent investigation by the company that has established that online world.
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survey says...

*submits for Linden Review for naming names*

I didn't name a person, or hold a "group" accountable - but by all means, support the witch hunt... I identified the group it was heard in to cite my source, rather than leave it hanging in hearsay.

And given that said list is an item that will have a civic impact, denouncing it is less of a "personal" matter, and more of civic duty.

Or do your run Second Thoughts? (actualy haven't sent it to LR yet). Also this forum isnt' for announcements. I should probably lock it on that alone .

Um yes, Second Thoughts is my little corner of the grid.

My apologies (guess i won't be sending to LR after all).
Good way to advertise your store would be to put it in your forums signature (also keep this sorta mix up from happening again).

No prob - I should have been more clear. and apologies if this was the wrong forum for it

So if a group of grieifers banded together to form "The Outlaw Nation" residents could not use the forums to warm other residents about their existence and methods of operation nor discuss the best way to eradicate them?????

These are not private affairs!!!!

These are not private disputes!!!!!

The OP was addressed to the Community and not to the specfice group mentioned!!!


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A witch-hunt was traditionally a search for witches or evidence of witchcraft, which could lead to a witchcraft trial involving the accused person. Today such events are recognised as a type of moral panic. On a general basis, the term may also denote the persecution of a perceived enemy with extreme prejudice and disregard of actual guilt or innocence.

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Reds amongst us?

Does that include FORMER Reds?

Well... maybe good-ol' 'Charlie Hustle' decided to make an alt here... I'll have to meet him if that's the case...

But that's exactly what anyone using copybot to steal other people's work is. No amount of spin - from a Linden or a resident - can change that fact.

Until all residents are verified then it doesn't matter who is a thief, if they get banned they'll be back within 5 minutes to do it again and again and again.

Lewis

Yes. I agree 100%. The problem is however, that we do not know what standards, if any, are being used to determine if a resident has in fact actually used Copybot to make and/or sell a protected work. And there is apparently no procedure by which someone so accused can contest the determination and ban. The possibility of an innocent resident being placed on the blacklist under these circumstances is clear

The residents of Second Life, in our need to establish some sort of self government to protect ourselves from the criminal element that exists in all societies, must do so with high ethical standards and adhere to recognized principals of fairness and justice. Our community must reject Vigilante Justice in any form.

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You can black list anyone you want, its a game, its peoples land not the person black listed.

Heck i am waited for auto banners based upon a website black list like spamhaus or DNSRBL

When the process server knocks on your door, with a summons to appear in court, remember that it is only a game.

I forget.. ar the Reds republicans or democrats?

Problem is, "being a copybot user" is not the same as "using copybot to steal other people's work". And "being a suspected copybot user" is not the same as "being a copybot user".

Worse, LL is likely to be pushed into escalating things, to banning by MAC address, to banning by IP, to even banning other accounts on the same MAC and IP. Which is inevitably going to hurt a lot more innocent people.

I used to think that was a good idea, and even acted as a honeypot for a while... feeding IPs gleaned from spam recieved at my server to blacklist operators. But after a while it became clear to me that a lot of people were not running these lists honestly and honorably. For a while I tried to cherrypick them, and just feed "good" ones... then one of them screwed up an put the addresses they were receiving the honeypot feeds in in their list, so I blacklisted myself.

Spamhaus is one of the ones I have heard nothing but good things about, but I'm still reluctant to suggest the equivalent here. The whole thing is a can of radioactive shoggoth tentacles you really don't want to open.

The list being composed by a merchant's union is of CopyBot users. I use it. I have to, because otherwise there's no way to understand what it does. I would not otherwise have come to understand the problem it creates with tortured toroids, for instance, which in and of itself may be a reportable bug.

This particular list has a fascinating cross-section of some of the most experienced and talented developers in SL. I suspect that many of the people on the list, especially those with L*n last names are probably not thieves either. I'm not, as my banker would be all too happy to confirm.

If you want to put together a list of thieves, and you have mechanisms for ensuring due process, then knock yourselves out. The apparent inability of the list's author(s) to distinguish legitimate use and experimentation from infringing uses says volumes about their understanding of the system to which they've plighted their retail troth.

"Use" and "abuse" are two different things. Please be more careful. I suggest that the union involved put together a system for dealing with product identity and theft. I'm sure you'll be able to find a number of technical people willing, nay eager to lend a hand. After all, some of us are merchants too.