Question to clothes makers

Again, these are two different things. Creating a good customer experience has nothing to do with protecting yourself from scam artists.

And if you think that being scammed doesn't hurt sales, you'd be sorely mistaken.
One of my products was ripped off and was being offered in a freebie pack (it was one of my first products and I didn't understand permissions so well then).
Guess how many of these I sold once word of the freebies got around?
Guess how many IMs I got yelling at me for "trying to sell something that's being offered for free"?

Fortunately, the guy who put the box together was a third party and didn't know they were my product and promptly took them out of the freebie box.

I just don't see how making your products no-trans is being spun into "You're a greedy *&#$! who's just out for themselves and you don't give a shit about your customers"...

Actually, if there were no recourse, they'd stand to lose nothing. And isn't 3000 better than nothing? If they were a small company, 3000 would be a lot.



That small business owner could still take it to court and win. Here, there's no option to do that, so what other option do you have to prevent it from happening? Why should owners have to put up with that in SL? Why take the chance? That's dumb in my opinion to allow it to happen, especially to only please a small minority of what people want. Currently there is no other option available to creators.



Actually, you'd be surprised at how many download DVD's and buy them from rip off artists. There's actually an in progress research right now, that early findings indicate there are MORE DVD's being acquired illegally than legally. Either way, there is still legal recourse in the RW. Take that out and what have you got left? Companies aggressivly finding ways to keep their competition from taking their products.

What you said:


If what I bought from you was transfer I'd pay you once, and if at a some point I decide I want to give it away to a friend I can. You don't loose a sale here, if anything if they like it enough they might decide to go check out your store for other things.

If what I bought from you was no transfer that's not something I can possibly do and your suggestion is to simply give them the money to pay for it again. Meaning I pay double for nothing because if I want to give something away that implies I no longer have a use for it. The fact that I keep my copy in this case is really just worthless, I no longer want it. If suggesting that people simply pay double for the exact same thing isn't being out for profit, I don't know what it is.

Also, stating "it's not my problem" honestly does not suggest to me that you're approachable and are open to modifying the permissions on the things you sell on a per request basis.

Lastly, if someone is determined to rip anyone off they'd simply steal the texture, put it on one of the default clothes and sell that which brings me to my whole point. Stop thinking that every single customer is somehow out to cheat you; those that are really comitted to doing that can and will regardless of permissions.

[Never mind if anyone read the part I just deleted, apparantly I'm on the wrong side although I still fail to see any issue with reselling something whether it's modified or not]

You're not addressing anything I've said regarding my reasons for preferring No Trans to No Copy: The fact that you can put the same shirt, pants, shoes, whatever into different folders to make different outfits, etc. In addition, you can make different versions for yourself, for different shapes etc. For me, the ability to have a good pair of jeans that I can wear in several different shapes, with several different combinations of clothes FAR outweighs whether or not I can give a friend something I don't want any more. The fact that I don't have to dig through a gajillion folders to find a shirt I like counts for a lot for me. Maybe you don't play that way and that's fine, but don't discount how I do things because you don't do them like that.

As for your reaction to what I wrote, I can't really do anything about it, can I? You won't stop reading things into what I said, no matter how I try to explain.

You say:

In response to my suggestion where I plainly say "If you want your friend to have the same shirt as you..."
Are you just not reading my posts? You took a quote from me, then twisted it and apply it to something completely different!

You then say
which is NOT what I said. The point is moot anyway, because, in the example that I gave, you would be paying double for TWO things, which... um... is the way things work.

And finally, you say:


If I may apply this thinking to something else, what you're saying is "If someone really wants to break into your house, they will just smash a window and climb in, so why bother locking the door?"

I don't think that every single customer is trying to cheat me. I've never said that, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. However, I do know, for a fact, from experience, that there are those out there that ARE trying to cheat others. THIS is why I try to protect my stuff, things that I have worked hard on and AM making a little bit of money from.

Just because I lock my doors at night doesn't mean that I think that every single person is trying to break in.

Look, the bottom line is:

I prefer No Trans on products that I buy, for reasons already stated, and, as such, do No Trans for the products that I make.
You prefer No Copy, for reasons you've stated, and would prefer them on the products that you buy.

Neither is right, neither is wrong, it's just a preference.

I'm going to sign off on this thread after this post because it feels like it's spinning past constructive dialogue (for which I'm to blame too ) and because it for the most part seems split on designer vs consumer and I don't think anyone of us will ever fully agree with the other's point of view.

I already made a lengthy post earlier in this thread about how I felt about permissions on certain items where - in my personal opinion - I felt no transfer doesn't make any sense.

For the most part the split seems to be between older residents (older than me anyway ) and more recent ones.

That doesn't have anything to do with permissions though which is what this post is about.
If I want to keep my copy and I want a friend to have the same thing then C/NT vs NC/T doesn't really come into it, either way two sales are needed because we both want one.

If I have something I no longer care for and show it to a friend, and they want it and it's NT then two sales are needed where as if the item was T only one was needed. Like I pointed out, I don't want my copy so with NT you do make an extra sale in this case.

I don't think you're disputing that? Now I do personally think that's unfair, and you obviously don't so hopefully we can just agree to disagree .

It's not that you don't have every right to protect what you created from being stolen, it's about the fact that there's really no point in punishing everyone just because one in a hundred/thousand might turn out to be dishonest especially when there are other means by which they can achieve that anyway.

If LL would ever add the feature of making "shortcuts" rather than copies where once the original is transferred all the "shortcuts" vanish along with it, there would still be people (not you personally, just.. people) who'd insist on selling no transfer, if only because they somehow believe that - personal, not en masse - second hand or giving something away is somehow stealing and it is that fact that I do have a problem with.
If you're selling one way or the other just because the majority of your customers wants it that way and it's the only way the permissions lets you do is there is no problem . (If you don't offer the alternative I prefer I'm still not going to buy anything most likely though )

Yknow, that would be an awesome feature. I assume this is how copy items work anyway, if you look under the hood; all the data isn't duplicated on the asset server, just now there are multiple pointers to the same packet of data. And if it is the case that every copy exists as separate bits on the asset server, then I imagine such shortcuts would lighten the load.

As someone fairly new to SL and learning to make clothes to hopefully sell in the near future, I have a few suggestions.

A. Sell 2 versions of the same item:
1. Modify/Copy - for those that want to keep the items for themself and be able to make multiply copies to put with different outfits or whatever.
2. Modify/Resell/GiveAway - for those that want the option to give away at a later date or to buy for a gift.

Or, for the gift giving idea, I know at slboutique.com, you can buy things and give as a gift when you buy it. I wonder if there is someway to do that in world? That way you can buy a Modify/Copy version, but give it to someone by-passing yourself.

I think they would all have to be separate, but at the same time all share the texture?

If you have 2 copies of a mod item you can adjust both independantly which wouldn't be possible if they were one and the same. The same is probably true for no-mod as well, it would fit the behaviour of rezzed prims; even a no copy, no mod prim gets assigned a new asset ID every time you rez it.