Official LibSL response to Copybot

Read the bloig, Usagi.

Copybot and others like it do NOT break TOS.

You break TOS only when you use it to make unauthorized copies.

coco

Making code like this is fine by us too, as is selling it to residents !

We can't or won't do anything to actually stop stuff like this however because SL is, uh, like the web, and stuff !

Usagi. LL basically just said copying peoples stuff is against the TOS and to file an abuse report.

Well duh ! Thanks for pointing that out LL.

That and writing debug tools like slProxy... though why a company centered on building "next generation interweb" wouldn't have such tool(s) in the first place, is quite beyond me.

Like said, can only shake head at the nonsense of it all...

wait! i been reading all the bs being written but the have started outlawing the copybot and otehrs such. its posted onthe startup screen of the client as well linked to the client.

wait wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! why is it that people are taking words out of content now......
I read that about copy is not looked at as stealing yes! But all i saying is LLabs has posted that copybot and others like has been outlawed.........what so hard to understand this?

You are mistaken. The blog simply states using it to make unauthorized copies of objects is against the TOS.

Using any means to do this HAS ALWAYS BEEN AGAINST THE TOS. Nothing has changed, no new policy has been introduced by LL at this time. It is a case of misdirection on their part.

That wasn't a policy statement either, it was the ill advised rambling of someone with no grasp of what "fair use" means or the practical implications of copybot use in SL.

ok i can understand that. but lindens themselves has outlawed them..so why is there so much confusion.

well the thing is , and i feel like repeating myself these lst months.

ANYTHING that transit trough YOUR computer can be read/copied.

In order for SL to prevent peoples to copy prims or do carbon copies of textures, LL would have to run the client for you and just send you the images trough internet, not likely to happend.

What can be done is a wayyy stronger hit on thieves, that LL help us more to crush em. But there is a limit on how much you can protect stuffs if, at the end you still need the client to be able to read and display them.

I think you're suffering confusion. THEY HAVEN'T OUTLAWED IT.

THEY'VE SAID IT'S AGAINST THE TOS TO USE IT TO MAKE UNAUTHORIZED COPIES.

THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN AGAINST THE TOS. NOTHING HAS CHANGED !

LL HAVE IN FACT DONE NOTHING !

Do you get it yet ?

Point 1: Yeah, it's wrong, and they're naive to think people won't do it given the chance. Fine. People DO suck, we know!

Point 2: BS, obviously, but maybe it's not to some extent. I'm no Linden Labs engineer or anything here, but...damn it, in my previous life, I loved this kind of thing (securing of things, trusted systems theory [ahem, the basically-defunct 80s version, not this evil TCPA 'trusted' crap), and I'm at a loss so far for technical fixes. This seems to be a class of the 'analog hole' that keeps the MPAA up at night. You can encrypt the originals. You can encrypt the stream to the player. You can have keys and 'rights' and all the trappings, but eventually it has to be decrypted SOMEWHERE so you can see or hear it. Today, CopyBot grabs off the line. Tomorrow, it's disk cache. Next week, after they encrypt the cache, it'll grab out of memory (getting more serious and difficult at that point, and it's an OS security issue as much as a SL issue).

Point 3: Good! Support the hell out of them. I can't help but think that maybe if SL was open source, this wouldn't be as much of an issue. The Open Source community is very responsive. I'd go so far to say that if the platform were open, we wouldn't have a LOT of the problems we have. You see how committed people are to the game. That would translate, I would think, into a strong base of freelance developers. Just because /I/ can't think of a solution, doesn't mean there isn't one (I'm a failed computer scientist, now cook!). "Many eyes make all bugs shallow", if I may butcher the quote. Ever notice how open source software, and the Linux platform in particular doesn't have NEARLY the problems that Windows has? The code is out there, people look at it (Either the large numbers of non-developer users who report bugs, or the much smaller percentage of developer/users who pitch in and fix things), problems are found, and then wonder of wonders....FIXED! The system works! This is the really sad thing about this: it's unlikely Secondlife will EVER be opened, if it ever was to be. Linden Labs and the userbase are short-sighted and reactionary enough to completely reject the concept because of something bad happening (yeah, you heard me...though I understand it's a world you're not accustomed to). I don't nessesarily agree with full disclosure, but a lot of the really huge security things in Linux were exposed on Bugtraq and then fixed FAST because if they didn't fix fast, the code was already out there. It does work. I wonder if libsecondlife thought of this consequence. I might be slightly more mad about that potentiality than the copying issue, though the latter has more potential to, you know, more or less end the game as we know it.

Point 4: ARE people thanking them for the response (I'm not going back into that blog discussion. You can't make me. Not for all the L$ in Anshe Chung's Ginko account)? They shouldn't. It's a crap response, and we both know it. First-use metadata is great...they should have done it AGES ago, but that's not going to fix the problem we have NOW.

Including your credit card details for example?

And the fact is SL is a proprietry platform NOT the www replacement yet. It really is easier to secure SL enough for its purpose than web page transactions if they wanted to do, however LL keep stating they will not, while continuing to endorse projects like this.

Stating that nothing can be 100% secure is simply a truism and avoids the real issues.

How childish.

Just as well you're not researching gem warfare, would you feel compelled to distribute your new bugs just so everyone could see how clever you were?

I asked for a clarification on this earlier today, on the blog. But there's so much noise there that I don't expect a response.

It's actually a LOT harder to prevent a tool like copybot from working than to keep credit card details from being sniffed. Why? Because with the CC details the people at bothe ends of the transaction are working to keep the transaction secure, so end-to-end-security is in both people's interest. What SL has to do is digital rights management, and that's known to be an insoluable problem. Ask Steve Jobs, Cory Doctorow, any security professional... because it depends on giving someone information, the program to display that information, and the keys to unlock that information, and keeping them from displaying it. It can't be done short of potting every part of their computer and monitor in epoxy.

And to make that possible, LL has to abandon the anonymous accounts.

First LOSE THE CAPS!

Second shouting solves nothing in my eyes.!

Third save the insults for LLAbs NOT ME! I support the content providers!

Usagi, you have made an incorrect statement.

What has been said by LL is that it's illegal to use copybot to illegally copy content.

This does not mean that it's not legal to have or use copybot (or a similar tool) for testing and development purposes.

I'm sure that's what you meant, but what you said came out differently.

Sure nuclear weapons and biological weapons are perfectly legal too.
Until you use them..........



theres no excuse for a copy device that sole purpose is to COPY.........

It shouldn't be legal, because it can be easily used for harm

end of story.

Stop. Look around your desk. Find me five things that can't be used for harm of any kind. You have three minutes, after that, I alert the authorities. You dangerous terrorist you.

Oh My Goodness, we gave them fire and they ran away from the warmth and back into the cold and froze. Some lemmied their way into the fire, surely. What I want to know who will stand around it and tell ghost stories and toast marshmallows.