Why Is Linden Shutting Down Forums?

I've requested that LL close their forums for a while, but for a different reason.

So long as the "official" - meaning secondlife.com - forums are open, they serve as the "forum of record" and prevent third-party forums from flourishing. I don't know if this is an intentional or accidental LL decision.

I don't know whether it was in this thread or another related one, but someone stated that third-party forums are run by people with cliquey agenda. I only know www.sluniverse.com, but to my eye, it is run without agenda, in a very (good) laizze faire manner. Players who cannot post here are allowed to there, and I am aware of only one banning (prefaced with repeated warnings and good cause) in the whole history of that site.

Despite its merits, SLuniverse does not and will not get significant traffic so long as LL runs these crippled fora.

(I don't know much about any other third-party sites so can't fairly comment; they may be as good or better than SLuniverse, but I don't know. They are, however, as subject to the "official forum" limitation as is SLuniverse).

I think "Gias Moorhen" needs to be banned or something. Not only is he posting the same useless message all over the place, he isn't even correct. Ha, I suppose prime example of why the other forums where shutdown. Who wants to listen to useless whining like this?

Ok, why are people making this out to be that Linden Labs is like a single person that runs a small business that just so happens to get tens of thousands of customers a day. Linden Labs has many people working for them, and with the money they pull in they could be making much more. But look at the way they do updates. No fixes, no ways to remove problems...just little trinkets that make it look like they are doing things.

Now, lets put it into true perspective. They have more than "one person" working there. They have hundreds of people working there. They have enough money to get even MORE. There is no excuse for the lack of support. I too have sent in emails to [email]support@secondlife.com[/email]. I posted questions on the forums that are now shut down that never got answered at all. A lack of moderation and support is no excuse.

And yes, while the forums may be a free service, so should support, especially because we PAY for the game (or atleast, most of us do). I personally put about $100 into this game a month for land costs and whatnot, so damnit, I want some support when I need it. And yes, it should be free. And yes, I should have every right to be pissed if they don't give it.

Bring back up the forums, get moderators in there to weed out the unneeded posts, and ANSWER the questions asked.

Stop getting volunteer help desk personnel that don't work for Linden Labs and get actual people that work there that know somewhat what is going on.

Answer your damn emails and phone calls. If people are bitching constantly, and you don't do anything about it even though the problems are LEGITIMATE, that is your fault and you better fucking fix it. End of discussion.

hehe, while I appreciate your comments and your ire; Technically you have to have authority to say End of Discussion.

A Parent can say that to their kid.

Or a Boss can say that to their employees.

A husband might try it with his wife.. LOL .. though he shouldnt.

But since your just one of the (nearly) nameless residents like us - you dont get to decide if its "end of discussion" =p.

Id be all for having the forums back - And for better customer service.

I personally think the comment Philip made about employees getting depressed isnt a good excuse since thats kinda part of the deal for running something like Second Life, they shouldnt have taken it so personally.

Really most of the anti Linden stuff was related to when the grid would be down.

To a lesser extent Second Life performance.

The rest of Anti Linden comments seemed fairly minor to me Customer Service wise that I saw on the forums.

Really was all of us Residents not getting along that got the forums closed - a sort of community wide forum ban , more or less.

Malachi actually has a fairly good point in that becuase theres ANY official forums it hurts third party forums starting up. Official will always draw more people than unofficial.

- Id like the forums back

- Id also like forum bans that dont get you banned in game - that way the mods could issue them with a easier conscience.

- Id like a way to customize the forums to not show the combative areas by default lol - then they wouldnt need to worry bout residents getting their feelings hurt "by accident"
(sort of like a pool with no lifeguard on duty)

well those are my thoughts,

"feel free continue of discussion till the Mods End it"

=pPpP

Did I just get told who has the right to say end of discussion?

Holy shit, thats pathetic. Anyway, it still stands at this. Customer Support is poor, and for the money they make, they should provide it. Removing that even further just because they aren't doing there job doesn't make it our fault.

Linden Labs, the order was "Give Customer Support". Correct yourself.

No, you just got told it basically rude when you dont have the authority over the people your discussing something with to say "end of discussion"

And it is.

Its polite to say "im done with this conversation" or "thats all I have to say on this matter.

I think I was fairly nice about it. But telling people you are having a discussion with the discussion is over without having authority over them is tantamount to telling someone "IM RIGHT, SHUT UP"

Whether your right or not - is beside the point.

Although im sure theres hundreds of people who have gotten bad customer service over their time in Second Life. --
It must be a difficult job since (I am certain) at least 75% of all complaints are user created problems.



Interesting - since your giving orders. You speak like someone accostomed to having authority.


Even if you pay 100$ a month or a 1000$ a month , its not really proper for you to give orders either.

I suppose customers make Demands - which a good company provides for.
But I dont think Linden Labs follows our "orders".

Im generally not nitpicky on terms of speech - But ive been in Second Life a long time - while they arent perfect by any means , they certainly have put forth more than enough effort to not deserve a patronizing tone.

The other posters of the thread who might disagree with you dont deserve that either.

Yikes! Are we allowed to have discussions amongst ourselves in this forum? I thought this was a place to post answers. Sadly to say I wasn't around for the general and off-topic forums. They sounded like fun. It would be a nice place to meet new people when the grid is down. I'm not sure this question is appropriate for Resident Answers because it is a question about an action taken by Linden Labs. They are the only ones with the truth on this matter. I think all of our thoughts on this matter are pure speculation, including mine. Keep in mind that the screen names you are chatting with are actual people and Second Life is just a thing. If we're going to debate over something (even though we're not supposed to in this forum) let's try to do it professionally and without flaming insults. Pretty please? lol...before this thread is locked.

Try not swearing in every post. I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked yet.

the burning question i want answered is why is this thread still unlocked and active after the giant locking mod has been buy to lock the rest of the threads that have to do with issues in some way related to linden services be it directly or indirectly...

okay well that's it then see you later .. bye hehe

Wow, last I checked, that meant that a person was saying there is nothing more to it than that...Linden Labs is refusing to provide proper support yet still insists on us paying more money. There is no question to that being wrong! To hell with if I have "authority". Like I believe that saying "end of discussion" will make everyone go "oh, well...he said it, so lets do it." Genius.

So if you want to "nitpick" my choice of words, or the fact that I used yet another phrase that was just me saying that Linden Labs needs to get their act straight and there truly is nothing more than that, or think that by me saying Linden Labs should do things is me ordering them around and expecting them to listen...do it on your own time and not in public, so you dont make a fool of yourself.

And yes, Linden Labs has provided something great. But if Ford, who provides us the ability to transport ourselves and other things great distances with great speed, produces cars and trucks that break after a week of having it, and instead of answer people when they say "Fix it" they just remove the support whatsoever and tell you that if you want help, go ask someone else that bought a truck from them...you pay money to a company like that, you expect support. Them coming out and saying "well, there are too many complaints so we're just going to no longer listen to you" is bullshit.

So, Linden Labs, fix it. It's not right to keep pushing this stuff aside or tell us the problems are getting fixed because its obvious they aren't, and it seems they don't care. Will the follow this? No, I don't believe they will.

But thank you SO much for being here to discern that I'm "tossing out orders and expecting them to be followed NOW". Your cookie is in the mail.

And yeah, I have to agree with Wilhelm...was very surprised this wasn't closed yet.

Well I guess I'd better get my $L.02 in then before it is.

The forums at secondlife.com are here for very specific reasons. They are organized into specific venues wherein residents can engage in meaningful exchanges of ideas, help, suggestions, etc relating to areas of common interest - scripting, building, textures, events, animations and more. Resident Answers is a catch all forum for questions without a specifically dedicated forum.

None of the forums are intended for this kind of conversation. There are a number of 3rd party forums out there which we can use to post our editorials on Linden Lab's support performance, and any other issue that's near and dear to our hearts. The fact of the matter is that if these forums here were used properly, they would in no way draw traffic away from 3rd party forums.

No matter how much money you pay to use the service, you are not entitled to misuse the forums provided by Linden Lab - they are here for specific purposes, every one of them having sticky posts up top outlining very clearly what they are intended for. Even the Linden Answers forum was not a forum to post support questions. It was misused to the point where it was no longer possible to respond to the posts that WERE appropriate for the forum.

Lastly, it should not be Linden Lab's burden to police these forums, and weed out the inappropriate posts/threads to the extent that is becoming necessary. It is our responsibility to use the forums for the purpose for which they were provided. Ranting, griping and complaining is not one of those purposes. The same can be said for the comments on the blog.

I really don't see why this is such a difficult thing to grasp. So many of us have perfectly valid gripes.. believe me, I have my own. I also end up $50-$100 per month out of pocket, and as I grow in my experience, that cost will likely rise.. but I don't believe that gives me any license to exploit the forums here and post my personal grievances.

Your message is right. Your choice of venue is wrong.

no problem - thanks for the cookie.

Sorry, this is funny to me.

Giving orders means you can dictate inescapable consequences for failing to follow those orders. You can:
So, now, why do you think "ordering" rather than "asking" is going to make a whit of difference, exactly?

--
SecondLife, I think, has more than proven that the customer is not always right.

You disagree? Remember: trolls and griefers are 'customers' too.

I love how this has turned into a "who can truly give orders to Linden Labs" discussion.

Alright, for the slow ones that missed it on the first time around.

I'm not really giving orders to Linden Labs with the thought that they need to be followed (see:Colette's GENIUS post). That phrase is one to mean that a person is wrong and should correct themselves, or in this case, a company. And people have ASKED for support for a long time. Its time to start getting down to it and saying that LL needs to do something about it. We shouldn't HAVE to beg to just get tech support.

~~~~~~

-cope, with or without complaining about it,

Yeah, its easy to cope when it takes an hour to go 10 feet. Gives you alot of time to think about it.

-cancel your premium membership (do you have one?),

Yup, got one a while back and invested quite a bit into SL when it still had alot going for it with very few problems we see now. Problems that keep getting pushed aside, like...massive amounts of lag. I've put so much into SL, it pisses me off that it seems wasted now.

-boycott the LindeX (have you ever used it?),

Uhm...god knows that wont help.

-try to take LL to small claims court... if you can prove they did not give you *Exactly* what you paid for.

Five bucks says they don't show up and instead send another person that plays Second Life that has no clue what's going on. They will be wearing a shirt that says "Tech Support" .

Thank you.

Had that problem earlier today.

"Help Request..." came through in a timely fashion... rebooted the sim, which kicked loose the problem object... which turned out to be one of my own lost prototype vehicles. *oops* !!