Unfair competition

I recently started a shapes store, and one day I decided to go around and check the competition to find out about average prices, permissons, ads, etc. I never bought anything, never talked to anyone, just walked around and watched the ads. I've seen nice stores and horrible ones, and I learned a few things about setting up a shop. (Actually I had plenty of experience designing characters for other games, but I never had a shop, so it was a really helpful tour.)

A few days ago I went to check a newly opened skins and shapes store, but a minute after I arrived and walked silently around watching the pictures, I was suddenly banned from the store! The owner came to me later, and told me that she banned me because I'm competition. On top of that, as I was standing stunned near the shop she threatened me to ask the sim owner to ban me from the whole sim, if I don't leave the sim immediately...

On top of that I realized, that the store is selling freebie skins for money (500-600L$). Before I TP-d away, I politely told the owner that those are free things, and if she paid for them, then she was scammed, but she only reminded me to go away or she will ask the sim owner to ban me from the whole sim.

It's especially bad for me, as they're my competition and their place is otherwise well designed, elegant, etc. The prices are obviously friendly, so they're pretty successful as most newbies don't recognise these free skins. The only thing they see is the relatively low price.

I already thought that maybe I should buy the land right near them and set up a freebie store with huge ads, giving away the exact same skins for 1L$, but that's not my style, I hate conflicts. I IM-d the creators of the skins, but they seem to left SL, as none of them answered. My sales dropped back heavily since that business opened, and I can't even post the name of the store here, as it would be griefing. What do you think I should do? I know that most of the creators is not allowing wholesaling their free stuff for money. Isn't that a copyright issue?

What do you think I should do?

Live and let live. Worry about yourself instead of your friend at the other Sim. Work on improving your products instead of thinking about revenge. Everyone is just trying to make tier, it's hard, people get desperate and do what they feel that have to do.

. Oops, wont let me delete this post .

@ the OP- People are like that, its probably best Id think to browse under an alt.

*Shrug*

Also, if she`s selling freebie items (especially for that much)..im wondering if she may be one of the recent theives to hit skin stores, steal the skins, and sell them as their own.


Doesn`t justify anything. Nothing justifies stealing, be it stealing the actual product or stealing ideas. (I know you are not saying she is justified in what she is doing, but apparently people think they are for whatever reason)

If people cant pay tier then sell land or make better products and/or do some good advertising. it is in no way "hard" for everyone to make tier. And if someone is struggling with it maybe they should look into selling from slb/slex.. Or, getting a smaller plot of land with less prims and selling from vendors.

RL stores have shoppers from competition all the time. I remember once as a sales associate being told by my sales manager to leave the competition shopper alone, unless I was asked a question, and then to be as helpful as humanly possible. If I could not help, I was to get someone who could, immediately.

The store where I worked certainly didn't need to have that attitude, they have the right to refuse service to anyone for any or no reason at all.

But RL businesses in general have long ago learned what is and is not good for business, what is harmless, and the right ways to go about things.

Your "competitor" may have an elegant build, but sounds to me like she is a very amateur businessperson.

If I were you, I might go to the store as an alt just to satisfy my own curiosity that none of the stuff she is selling was directly stolen from me, then just forget she exists.

If you feel any need to "get back at her", do it by being so much better than her that she becomes irrelevant.

This is very strange behavior. Banned people can easily come back with alt accounts and enter the land parcel freely. The only reason I ban people is to send them a message about how I feel towards them as an individual based upon thier repeatedly offensive actions, not because they are in the same line of business!! I have the highest respect for other artists who enjoy doing the same thing I do.

When I put those two behaviors together (paranoia and possibly selling questionable product) red flags go up in a big way. Why would they think banning certain people in the same line of business would gain them any advantage whatsoever?! I would like to know who this is (PM me or send the name to [email=namssor@secondskinlabs.com]namssor@secondskinlabs.com[/email]) because I'm curious to see if they ban me too. I'm also curious about the free skins they are selling.

One more thing that's funny is the fact that the skin creators can't be reached. Are they well known? This happens sometimes when an alt is used to aid in covering up the transfer of illegally obtained textures for IP abuse.

*chuckle* RobbyRacoon has already expressed my own sentiments...

So I'll say something more malicious then:

Any owner that is that reactionary and paranoid deserves to be told:

"I'll come back as alts until my curiosity is satisfied."

See if you can whip them up into a ban all visitors frenzy.

Whats the point? Somebody who needs to sell freebies obviously doesnt have enough good ideas to steal. Ban you from the entire sim?? Well let the sim owner ban you. Then tell all your friends what lousy businesses are on that sim, and how the sim owner backs up their shaky business practises. Your friends can share that info with their own friends as well and so on. Sooner or later NOBODY WILL GO THERE AND THOSE BAN HAPPY WHACKJOBS CAN SIT AROUND IN A DEAD SIM. Bad word of mouth can totally undermine a business and bring its sales down the tubes. Keep your evidence close by in case your accused of libelous chatter. Now go make a better product at a decent price and screw those paranoid freaks.

Geez, if I were to ban everyone who's in the clothing business, I'd have noone left in my store!
The ban is stupid, and the freebie reselling is... yikes. You might want to post this on a forum that allows naming names.

Like SC .

Please do. I have my suspicions.

Two things:
First, don't look at her as competition. She may create and sell the same type of products, but you not only appear to have a better business sense than she does, and if she is truly selling free skins it will catch up with her and any credibility she may have had will go *poooof*.

This tells me she isn't competing with anyone at any level.

Second, so she banned you. No big deal. Her insecurities are her own worst enemy and if she was at all confident in her craft she would have been pleased to see a peer checking out her stuff. It's a compliment.

I've had other clothing/hair creators come to my shop and I stopped and talked to them. I've learned a lot from them and they've become very dear friends...friends I can bounce ideas off of and get constructive critiques.

Best wishes on your venture!
~Ari

More than a compliment, it is a major kick! When either my wife or I have someone whose products we like buy one of our products or even pop a head in our stores, we get all jazzed up and talk to each other about it

And even if she were not confident in her craft, if she were willing to learn and grow and *become* confident then she would let a competitor look freely because in my opinion many of the "best in the business" types are fantastic people who freely dispense with constructive criticism and solid points to take away from the conversation.

Having a mentality of scarcity and being afraid of competition gets you nowhere. There is plenty of room for competition without taking our slice of the pie, and the really great ones know this.

I couldn't agree more.

In my radio business, I have found some of my competitors to be very nice people. One such competitor to me would be Raster Teazel. We met a while back while I was checking out his products. He was very welcoming and friendly, despite his knowledge of my success and longevity.

We discussed a broad range of topics common to both of us. Group usage, tech support and reliability of URLs, to name a few topics.

Although essentially the same product, we both have features unique to each, which overall, offer more choices to consumers. I am happy to be in the same business as this gentleman, as opposed to some trying to squeeze me out. (like the landbots do)

I buy almost every single radio in Second Life for a couple of reasons. Mainly to evaluate them for functionality, reliability, group usage, appearance and performance. In all honesty, most are crap, unsupported and/or featureless.

Dianne Mechanic created a nice "freebee" radio. Upon discussion with her, I think maybe she laments creating it, because radios generally tend to require a significant amount of tech support and updating. She provided me with with a "open" version, so I could inspect and possibly impliment a few features in mine. Very amiable. I do not view her radio as as a threat to my business in any way, because most of my customers enjoy full tech support and free upgrades, therefore the $200L they pay for each, is well served.

Rip-offs are going to happen until either Linden Labs or Second Life residents figure out a way of introducing consumer education and consumer protection. How does a newbie get clued in that sometimes those skins selling for $600L are free elsewhere? Or that better products can be found for less? The tools that are available aren't very good. The Second Life introductory tutorials in-game, and website documentation, do not have any consumer education materials.

Any of us who have wisdom to offer probably did not come by that wisdom until after many hours of playing, and being burned in the wallet a few times.

Yep.

An on the level entrepenur will welcome competition. It will kepp them on the edge creatively. Sadly, in RL thst is becoming rare as Mega stores and Mergers become more prevalent. I wouldn't worry too much about the person you mention. More than likely they will disappear soon enough, unless they change their practices.

Have to agree with the suspicious posters. Your ban-happy competitor certainly sounds like someone with something to hide. If I were you I'd get an alt and go find out what it is...

I think that some of you guys are missing the point. My shop looks classy enough and my wares are all hq, and if we were at the same level, I wouldn't worry at all. But that other store has something I don't have: loads of cash, and that allows them to pay for expensive classifieds, open several stores, use camping, etc. Their stores are high in the searchlists, and I can't afford that. You don't need a degree in economics to realize that it's the marketing that sells more products, and not the quality. They have 15-25k traffic, their stores are always full of newbies, most of them doesn't even know that there are freebies in SL, and there will always be lots of newbies, so they will always have customers. All these newbies are scammed right now, and nothing can be done?

I'm creating a skin atm, and I planned to put it in the store for free. Now how can I be sure that my skin won't end up in my competitor's store???

Note: I put the same skins for free in my store, although I don't think it will help much, as I don't have the traffic they have. A friend of mine made a few pictures, comparing their skins to the free skins. You can check these at: http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1839687

So I shouldn't worry about scammers just because they have to pay land tiers too?

Have you talked to the other skin designers about this? Surely if it's having a noticeable effect on your store, it must be having an effect on the stores of other skin designers too.

Also, the alt is to browse the store you're banned from, not to IM all the customers.

The business owner in question must not be very secure with their own work if they are acting like this...I personally LIKE meeting people into what I am into. Plus, it's great to have contacts that are in the same line as you are, just to talk about things.
I personally will offer anyone any information I have about making clothing, shapes, skins, or building to anyone who asks. I don't feel like it is right to try and safe guard the information. I certainly would never ban "competition." Doesn't it seem a bit childish?! I'd expect to hear about this on the teen grid, but it continues to amaze me what lengths adults will sometimes go to. I guess you can't pin maturity to an age group afterall.

As a self proclaimed SL Shopping Pro, if your wares are quality, then in the end I think you will thrive. It's not difficult to see the crap being offered for sale out there,and to avoid spending money on it.

Ouch -- the theft is rather obvious. Especially since each of the original skin designers has a distinctive style, and the skin line by [name that cannot be uttered on this forum] is all over the place.

I'm glad to announce that the sim owner contacted me and she told me that she'll forbid reselling freebies in the covenant, and will do the same in her mall's rules too. Actually that's a fantastic idea, so I ask all land owners to follow that example. Linden Labs won't act in copyright issues, but land owners can do that! Obviously they can't watch everybody and police it, but at least they can set the rules.

The store I was talking about will move, and although she can buy her own piece of land, at least it will cost her and everybody else who resells freebies and violates copyrights.

Take care,

Pelthar