Solid State Alpha

Is there a sneaky script or way to make transparent textues solid state (like the leave images on linden trees)?

i know the viewer has code to read if an image is solid state or not.

to make alpha transparency into non-transparency? nope, don't believe so

ETA:: Oh wait.. to make textures solid like linden trees? Like the actual solid-ness of em? No.. if we could do that we would have more variety in trees =P

Not positive but I think I remeber hearing they were made in Maya

I'm guessing this is about reducing the alpha-sorting problem for 24-bit textures... which I don't know how to do on a per-texture basis (and yes, Linden plants--I think created in SpeedTree, but could be wrong--somehow have way less alpha-sorting problems than regular 24-bit textures). *However* I've stumbled on Advanced / Rendering / Fast Alpha; with that unchecked, it seems like the alpha-sorting problem is dramatically reduced, at least for my viewer / driver / card combo.

Call me old-fashioned, but I'll always prefer the natural warmth of vacuum tube textures.

Class-A biased at that. I like my trees to get *hot*.

/me looks over at Fender amplifier... (>_> .... (^_^)

i think solid alpha images would look better for a lot of things in SL (like a chain link fence for example)

i know for a fact it will be included in the new materials editor (when it finally comes out)

The alpha ordering texture problem (flickering) *can* be solved in certain ways, and has been.

If anyone doubts me, port into Caledon Glengarry and check out Aminom's trees that are all over the place there. Highly, highly complex transparencies in a way that normally 'triggers' the opengl alpha sort order bug - but in this case, no flicker whatsoever. At least, nobody's been able to see any yet, and if the method is true (and I think it is) there won't be any to find.

As for how it's done: I know the theory (another extremely talented friend explained it to me - I'm guessing there are probably less than 5 on the grid that know how), but it's not a secret for me to spill.

Another dazzling side effect: check out the primcount of the trees.

Chaos, this is a *massive* hint... you are on your own for the rest. Good luck sir

It can be gotten around a number of ways.

One way is to layer non-alpha prims in-between the alpha layers. Kinda tough to do in some cases, though, even if you use the invisiprim textures (which are not alpha).

Another method is to use a higher "angle of incidence" where two alpha layers intersect.

does hollowing, texturing the hollow with a nonalpha, and then 'hiding' that hollow help at all?

Those are indeed wondrous trees. At least in my viewer, though, the alpha-sorting problem is still quite evident as I cam around and (especially) over the trees. (So far I've only tried with the Linux RC viewer on nVidia's OpenGL libs, so indeed YMMV.) This is to take nothing from the trees, however: both the sculptmap and surface textures are phenomenally clever. I now have new favorite trees!

Forgot to answer this. I doubt it would make any difference, if "hiding" means making the object non-hollow. At least when scripts manipulate prim parameters like this, the prim completely forgets what the texture of the no-longer-visible surface was, and it reverts to some default for that prim (this is an annoyance, actually, but maybe it saves a few bytes somewhere). Now, I haven't tried to manipulate that "prim default" texture--I'm not even entirely sure it comes to be set in any intuitive way. But I very much doubt it would affect the rendering of other surfaces if it is not rendered itself.

If by "hiding" you mean forcing the hollow surface full-alpha... that actually might be worth trying. I've noticed (I think) that surfaces with low alpha values seem somewhat less apt to trigger the effect than are 24-bit textures... though I can't explain how that can possibly be true, at least with my incomplete knowledge of OpenGL rendering.

Try asking this question in Texturing Tips, since Chip & Chosen haven't popped in here lately.

I bought a few of those trees this morning, and you should see the EULA that comes with them. Not only may I not copy them, I mustn't look too closely at them, lest I figure out how they work.

/me thinks it would be much simpler to just sequence the damned Scotch Pine genome and be done with it.

I'd be afraid to put them out, lest someone walk up an actually view them!

Mari

That just makes me want to get one and spill the beans. You can't stop someone from reverse engineering something, no matter how thick your jargon. Even if (and that's a big if) they had this technique patented, that wouldn't stop you from doing something similar, and certainly wouldn't stop you from talking about how it's done.

Hey, Caledon's got its tree species and I'm keeping my mouth shut.

Sure, people will eventually learn... maybe. I suppose I could write a beginner's guide to land barony, too!

Aminom earned it; if he figured it out, well, everyone else can too. It's a fair playing field.

I kind of worry when everyone is keen on laying bare whatever a diligent, hardworking content creator works hard to find out. There's something icky about that.

* * * * *

I had written an object rezzer back in 2005 that perfectly rezzed multi link set houses, and had been offered TONS of $L for it. Turned it all down; made about $L 250k off it via the houses and with a little extra from other sales I got the first Caledon region.

Well here is the rezzer secret: take the 'hello avatar' base script, replace it with an llRezObject command and drop the composite object into the prim doing the rezzing.

That was it - in less than 25 words! $L 250k sekr1t in 2005. Forum one-liner in 2008.

And just as stupid as it was in 2005, and anyone using their head could have figured it out in 2003. Or already knew and didn't care (most scripters already knew OF it but not how to apply it to make $L).

* * * * *

Re: the trees -

Qie, I'm surprised you can see anything at all, but don't doubt you.

It's still a night-vs-day difference compared to making that using ... the usual tricks, from all feedback I've heard and personally seen for myself. Yours is the first report of flicker; I've had maybe 2 dozen people looking.

And it's priceless when people check the primcount, I swear about ten people were stunned to silence by that, then tried to pry it outta me by any means possible.


an I iz not talkingz...

Hmmm... maybe other people see something different when they experience the alpha-sorting problem, because I've never seen anything "flicker" exactly--not the way Z-flicker looks, anyway. It's more... uh... kinda like a Necker cube, almost, where suddenly the surface behind will just pop in front of the nearer surface and stay there till I move the cam. But I agree that the effect is less pronounced than the usual phenomenon with in-world flora.Yep, the primcount is what pried L$s from me. Quite impressive, indeed.

The whole thing about "spilling the beans" is knowing what "reverse engineering" means in the EULA. For example, I know a whole lot more about these things having looked at the surface texture repeats in the Editor (never mind the sculptmap). Knowing what I do about how sculpties work, I'm pretty confident I could replicate the technique now, with a bit of trial-and-error. And it's damned tempting, too--not necessarily for making plants, but maybe for less representational art. Ordinarily, we'd call that "learning" but in this case such inspection and follow-on exploration might qualify as "reverse engineering" in violation of the EULA.

So, it's less like expecting you to write a book on land barony than it is like finding oneself suddenly bound by a non-reciprocal NDA covering everything one might come to observe about the care and feeding of Caledon.

I haven't seen these magical trees of which everyone here is speaking. But since reading this thread, I'm now envisioning a way to make one-prim sculpted trees. If one is clever with texturing, and aware of some of the techniques for making "sculptiples", I could see a pretty good tree being made from a single prim. I have no idea if that's what you guys are talking about or not, but I do appreciate the inspiration.

I've seen a selection of sculpted trees in 1 (or slightly above 1) prim in the Kenroku sim. I wasn't totally sold on the texturing, else I think I'd have spent a lot of lindens.

Mari

Are these the trees in question?

/53/fd/182727/17.html#post1915329

Damn nice trees for 2 prims!
.

that looks amazing!

Those would be they. If you happen to be at the... well, at that beach place in Allana, I've planted one each of the large species on the hill in Dallows. (There are some other trees on that parcel, but these are pretty identifiable.)