Group entitled: Greifers 4 Hire (!)

Group Member quote was G. Marx


McCarthy Quotes:

"I have here in my hand a list of two hundred and five (people) that were known to the Secretary of State as being members of the Communist Party and who nevertheless are still working and shaping the policy of the State Department”

(of course never proven, notice he didnt say suspected - I suspect the reason Brenda brought it up it was a list of people whose only established guiilt was being on the list.)

“McCarthyism is Americanism with its sleeves rolled.”

(its dangerous when people believe their own press)

McCarthy: The issue between the Republicans and Democrats is clearly drawn. It has been deliberately drawn by those who have been in charge of twenty years of treason. Not the hard fact is...the hard fact is that those who wear the label...those who wear the label "Democrat" wear it with the stain of a historic betrayal.

-quote made in 1954

(20 years of treason? Those who remember history know that there was a Democrat in the White House During most of this period - which includes the Second World War, in which America prevailed.)

To refute an earlier Poster - McCarthy has not been proven right. Instead a handful of conservatives have claimed he was right -most notably an extremist pundant, A long time conservative author and a conservative editor who is an outspoken anti-communist.

Scholarly research on the subject does not agree.

To point out something here:

"Griefers" refers to a actual act, and therefore defines the purpose of the group. This is akin to having "Lynchers of America" or "The Society of Bank Robbers." Griefing is NOT an exchange of ideas, or an ideology. It is, in fact, an act. There's nothing wrong with the "National Rifle Association" but there WOULD be with a group called the "Indiscriminate Killers International."

There is no witchhunt here. The group's name clearly states its purpose. Freedom of Speech only applies if there is actual speech going on. I'm *QUITE* sure that "Griefers for Hire" isn't a group made for advocating resident rights, or for expressing any sort of ideology. Let's be adults here and call it for what it is.

I think people are overlly paranoid of griefers in Second Life. Most are really pretty pathetic at even griefing you.

Let's see... disable push, script, create object, etc. on your land. Either only allow access to a group on your land or get a home security system / guardian knight. Griefer issue solved. Also, that "mute" button works wonders. Don't see how people let "griefers" bother them so much when there are ways to get rid of them.

Scholarly research using released KGB files does agree:

Allen Weinstein & Alexander Vassiliev, The Haunted Wood: Soviet Espionage in America -- the Stalin Era, Random House 1998, 402pp. Based on documents from KGB archives which were available during a 2 year window after the end of the Soviet Union, this book documents espionage by a number of the Americans accused during the McCarthy era -- Alger Hiss, Laurence Duggan, Michael Straight, Lauchlin Currie, and senior OSS officer, Duncan Lee, etc. While none of those names are new, their appearance in KGB files (one document is about a Soviet decoration secretly awarded to Alger Hiss for his espionage successes), certainly ends all doubt. Of note, while the authors did not find any evidence that J Robert Oppenheimer was a spy, they did find documentation that he was a secret member of the Communist Party USA. http://www.nytimes.com/books/ 99/01/03/reviews/990103.03persict.html

Weinstein is hardly a widely held unbiased Historian - for example:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14555-2005Mar30.html

In fact he received an appointment by the Bush Administration. Which was opposed by many.

Alexander Vassiliev was a member of the KGB - not a historian. He worked for the US prior to the break up of the Soviet Union. Thus at best he was a defector. While perhaps a source of information that would need to be corroberated - Hes a poor choice for an authorship credit on a serious study.

Yes, just like the Washington Post is completely unbias. Almost all sources can be pointed to as being bias.


Anyway, back on topic. Griefer groups are fine in my mind. As long as they don't follow through. But again, you can't punish a group for the actions of a few.

Thats why whenever I see a naked newbie, I tell them to leave their socks on. They usually give me a strange look, but I explain to them that its for thier own good or else they'll get shot.

They usually freak out and throw on a pair of undies too.

The Washington post Article was refering to Historians that disagreed with Allen Weinstein which was directly related to the reference that meant to prove McCarthy was right.

I doubt Weinstein would even try to tell you other Historians have not accused him of bias.

There is a difference between bias in reporting, A bias in Editorializing.

And a bias in historical analysis.

The first two are present at nearly every level. The third is something serious Historians strive NOT to fall victim to. Of course it happens. That is a problem.

It is why no one published book can be considered the ultimate proof of anything. And among the reasons in grade school your teachers expected you to provide a bibliography with multiple sources.

Agreed. I realize it is my fault for spinning this thread into anarchy, all due to a typo. I meant to reference MCCARTNEYISM. Sorry.

And the sources you have provided to prove your point? None that I have seen, just your unfounded opinion.

You are really deceiving yourself if you think that "serious historians" do not show bias in their work. Bias is a part of human nature, it can no more be eliminated than the need to breathe can be.

As for one of the authors being a former KGB agent and a defector, who better to study KGB files?

Thanks, Brenda, for the correction. Goo-Goo-Ga-Joob!

Im not the one who claimed McCarthy was right against the prevailence of historical thought, you were.



Maybe you should read that part my post on Historical bias again. I didnt say what you think I said.

The problem is the Author you used is controversial becuase of his bias. This is more rare.



Of course who better than someone who has been trained to lie and was a turncoat.

So imprison myself on the land I pay for so greifers can't get to me. I have a better idea. Lindens change the group name 'Greifers 4 Hire' to 'Good Guys 4 Hire'. I foresee group membership dropping.

LOL... I really dont understand why people make such a big deal about them ... thier entertaining... when things get kinda boring on our island one of them pops by and we enjoy toying with them... there is honestly not alot they can do... the ones who actually can be disruptive are few and far between... the vast majority of greifers one encounters are nothing more then teen grid wannabee's who attempt to set particles or shoot with freeby guns... or thier chatters.. all easily removed... but I think a greifer is less likely to get his thrill when we decide that thier toys who came to our land to be played with... have fun with them as you will get some free entertainment and they will wander off crying wishing they never left the teen grid.