Would this be a good idea for SL?

I got an email this morning from moove, another community Ive been a member of forever, tho I rarely actually play there. The email addressed the issues of griefing/alt creation and I wondered why it was that a world so much more sophisticated like SL hasn't addressed the same issue in a similar manner:

Be a GREAT idea for LL P2. Though I'd rather it be part of the land banning system as well as the Muting system.

What good is not listening to some one if they come to your store and grief your customers?

~Jessy

Seconded!!!

Indeed! I'm sure there are plenty of residents in the non-landowning classes who would be grateful for such a comprehensive anti-greifing tool. And, yes, Jessica's suggestion to incorporate such a tool into the land and estate tools would be a real step forward towards maintaining the peace in SL.

er..... does this need to be put in toat JIRA thingy?

My concerns about bannings all have to do with Black Lists.

------------------

I ban you from my land and write up some BS report that no one can disprove up on "Black List Site" that everyone uses.

A ton of other people ban you too.

Suddenly you are banned from a lot of places you used to go. And no one will beleive you didnt do what the original Ban placers said - becuase it was so well documented.

So you make an Alt - oops thats out, all your Alts are chain banned too.


Thats my concern.

Get rid of Black Lists? Sure- then I think its a great idea.

I think Collette's concern reflects the rise and rise of the private Kangaroo Court - a problem to do with invite-only forums, not so much to do with SL. It's also a reflection of the one-sidedness of the suggestion - all very well to have extended alt banning, but ONLY if the banning system TELLS the affected party why they have been dealt with this way.

addon to colette

griefer griefs u, u grief griefer back, he beats u to the report and u get banned
griefers will have a new tool to grief the entire userbase, search for a name and report, next name, report

befor u know it, the only persons who can roam the grid are griefers as every sane person is banned

woth all od theh typoies ingema, whet hapenns if theh bannir speils youre nam rong?..... Uer scweewed

if wroks liek al skripts, ackount namez woeld be aded corretlie

I'm not really talking about banning or reporting, just a simple tool like the MUTE function we currently have, perhaps even part of the land tools as well.

I think what I'm trying to get at, and what my question might actually be (tho sometimes , who knows, lol) is why someplace as low-rent as moove has found a way to address this issue when SL hasn't really bothered; ie: of endlessly having to ban/mute/ignore the same person who's back AGAIN as another alt.

**No report to LL, the way you dont have to file a report to MUTE someone now.
**No action required from anyone else
**And what fun would a griefer get from simply muting every other person on the grid, one name at a time?

Perhaps Colette's concern about being Black Listed by a bunch of people who won't listen to you anyway is valid and you could get muted or banned from certain parcels(if the tool were extended to include a land function and not just simply a chat function like what is proposed in the moove email), but do you really want to hang around them anyway if they're going to be like that?

Im just worried about great big linked black list sites like Ban Link, which was endorsed by LL.

I think they are potentially harmful, especially if they became Universal.

Being banned from a dozen islands is no big deal.

A few Hundred without any sort of investigation or proof? Just feel thats rough is all.

/me points to http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-420 , which is sorta related.

have u then considerd what universal problems it will create for vendors as items won`t be deliverd, no way to contact the person besides with an alt(oops, muted... friend that hopefully isn`t muted

any sort of auto blacklist with ban/mute that goes as far as banning all account at once should be banned as it is a griefing tool for "first come first serverd" and ur shit out of luck if a griefer filed 1000 reports

imagine some 1 report u with a fake story and u get automuted by say, the persons who run ur favorite shops, what would u do? get an alt?(pointless), beg to be removed and try to prove u got on their for no reason? (like anyone would believe a greifer as u are listed as 1 now)

well .. thats the issue with blacklists ...

Not necessarily with the OP's idea.

Since without a black list the idea makes a lot of sense. Becuase people who get banned who do deserve it often make an alt and go right back to doing nasty things.

It's kind of related, but I am not talking about LL dealing with the wider issue of banning griefers from the grid entirely, and I'm thinking that's why it wouldn't be an effective tool FOR griefers to use against others.

Simply, when you MUTE somone using the current MUTE feature, it would effectively MUTE that person for you and only you forever, no matter how many alts they came at you with. That's what moove has implimented. Why hasn't LL?

Black Lists are a completely seperate issue unless you are worried someone has enough power to persude your friends to MUTE you simply because they say so.

Land tool function would also be a seperate issue, but perhaps could be addressable along the same idea.

The Mute idea is a good one.

I guess I miss-understood.

IF it`s only a manual mute wich mutes all known alts at the same time it is a good feature and only if it`s all kept server side

I think there's a privacy hole there.. If you mute one person and find that several other people you know are suddenly very quiet, you've learned something.

I don't know the romancer client I think is set up bit different then one here.
We have some pretty smart people including griefers. If they can figure out how to mass spam people with griefing objects inventories or hack into SL they probably find way around it. If LL programed something there strong chance it might not work or it cause new bugs that none of us would like.
It often seems with SL if there new feature, something else breaks its like tampering with DNA. Some hidden problem shows ups in result of correct or changing one part.
I don't entirely understand why this is because I am no programer but I figure its because its hard and even smartest get tired and miss something when I writing code or you create code and something unexpected that you hadn't programed in shows up.

In reality the black list issue is moot for the following reasons:

a) most people in SL won't blindly plug into "the Great Ban List" and take that at face value.

The SL community isn't nearly organized enough for that to come into play. Hell I don't even think the Goreans would jump into something like that!

There are plenty of factions in the Gorean community that don't like or trust each other (not in RP but ACTUALLY don't like or trust each other) and even though they allow each other on their land they don't always take what they say/do at face value.

What would actually happen is there will be certain groups of friends and businesses...maybe all in a same sim or similar industry...that would trade ban info (and probably already do) once a certain level of trust and reliability has been attained by everyone involved. If there's one constant in SL business it's the fact that all you have is trust. Enough people have been burnt or seen other burnt to know this.

b) anyone who does plug into "the Great Ban List" would notice a decrease in sales if the list was being abused.

Any smart business person would pick up on this and eventually notice the trend and reverse it.

Any stupid business person would eventually have property for sale!

It won't happen at a large enough scale for anyone to be affected. And for the banned, there is enough variety in the marketplace that they can just take their business elsewhere and be just fine.

You've learned the system works, but not the identity of the person/s unless you only have one person muted. Besides, if someone is alting you to death, they wouldn't be the first person with whom I would be concerned for thier privacy.

I am almost totally anti-"new feature" but I don't think of this as a new feature, just as actually improving the effectiveness of a current feature that unverified accounts borked to hell.

The moove client is not that sophisticated, FD, but then again I am completely ignorant of what it takes to make a virtual world work. That's why I ask these questions.

You guys know the easier fix would be to go back to the CC info/cel phone verification deal they had back in 2005, right?

That's where this became an issue in the first place!

I wonder if LL would still be making payroll if they hadn't opened it up last year...

I don't know if Moove has changed but when I used it was pretty two dimensional. It primarily used basic graphic utilities to develope content like rooms which were two dimensional. Bodies were bit more complecated I don't remember exactly because it was long long time ago. Basically site is slightly complex website not exactly like the graphics or program like in activeworlds or cybertown though.

SL has this. It is called SL Banlink, and the JLU. Both have zero transparency, and are invite-only. They are also both widely abused and tyrannical.

Ban Link having been officially endorsed by LL when the Ratings went away.