Bragg Case
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Aleister Montgomery
Minding the gap
Join date: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 846
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07-12-2007 04:21
From: John Horner Well I saw a fairly good unique weapon for sale in the online auction houses last night (a legal in game WoW clearing house for weapons, armour, and other WoW essentials) The cost was around 5,500 Gold. An approximate conversion rate from Gold into Pound Sterling is about 1,000 Gold to around £13 (say $25 US) It does vary slightly from Realm to Realm
Therefore that weapon cost in US dollars is about £70 or say $140 US (or $L38, 000 Linden Dollars) To put that into perspective that amount of gold is more or less unobtainable for most average or even dedicated social players in terms of farming in-game resources.
In short you would have to purchase Gold outside (from a web site) to do it. Blizzard does not like the practice of external gold purchase and indeed it is against the TOS. However the reality on the ground is that at a certain level it appears to be tolerated.
What I am saying is that almost every game/platform that has an in game currency appears to also have a first life economic link/value.
So I think the Bragg case will be interesting....... Only problem with that calculation: you aren't allowed to either buy or sell WoW gold for RL money. That's what I wrote in the post you quoted. Blizzard, SOE, NCSoft and other game publishers ban players on a regular basis for selling of virtual items / currency. A ware that you aren't allowed to sell, because it belongs to Blizzard, has a value of exactly $0.
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Aleister Montgomery
Minding the gap
Join date: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 846
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07-12-2007 04:32
From: Chip Midnight I'm not sure where you're linking from. I'd guess from the community pages? If so, those are only open to members (who should have already read the info on the main site and in the TOS). The pages I'm talking about are linked from the front page of the SL site. There's a button that say "own virtual land." If you click it it takes you to a page with links to the two other pages I mentioned, under a section titled "Acquiring Land." Also, once you're in the body of the main site there's a link on the left side menu that also says "own virtual land" that takes you to a different page with links to those same two pages. I was quoting from the page I had linked,  . That's where SL's "Get your own island" advertising banner leads, and where I went when I bought my island. Of course I was already a SL resident at that time. People try SL out for free and log in without paying attention to the TOS. It's just a free game they want to test, no one reads a TOS or EULA at that point. They start to like SL and at some point they want to buy land. They'll follow the links on the SL homepage just as I did. From: Chip Midnight I can understand your concern about arbitrary banning after the "broadly offensive" thing, but it's important to remember that it was in response to pressure from government and law enforcement, not at the behest of corporate clients, and LL did the absolute minimum possible to appear to be addressing the issue without actually cracking down on anyone. The same is true with the gambling issue when it became illegal in the US. All LL did was forbid casino operators to advertise. They've stated repeatedly that they expect us to police ourselves and to comply with the laws of the jurisdictions we log in from. Those are not the actions of an intolerant and capricious dictator. Quite the contrary, actually. Well, when I view it from that perspective, I agree with you. But somehow it's like a government that has the power to execute citizens without a trial. Even if the government consists of very nice and reasonable people... one false accusation and its over. No one can live under the pressure of such a threat.
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Zaphod Kotobide
zOMGWTFPME!
Join date: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 2,087
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07-12-2007 04:49
https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/dcwill/www/IGEComplaint.pdfFrom: Aleister Montgomery Only problem with that calculation: you aren't allowed to either buy or sell WoW gold for RL money. That's what I wrote in the post you quoted. Blizzard, SOE, NCSoft and other game publishers ban players on a regular basis for selling of virtual items / currency. A ware that you aren't allowed to sell, because it belongs to Blizzard, has a value of exactly $0.
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From: Albert Einstein Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them.
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Aleister Montgomery
Minding the gap
Join date: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 846
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07-12-2007 05:08
Thanks for that link  I don't play WoW, but I'm curious how that case turns out.
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Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room.
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Zaphod Kotobide
zOMGWTFPME!
Join date: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 2,087
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07-12-2007 05:13
Yeah. It doesn't contradict your take - obviously in-world, and under Blizzard's terms, the gold is not supposed to be worth real $, but in another reality, it's worth millions. Likely not too many, if any parallels to Bragg, but still very interesting. From: Aleister Montgomery Thanks for that link I don't play WoW, but I'm curious how that case turns out.
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From: Albert Einstein Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them.
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John Horner
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 626
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07-12-2007 09:28
From: Aleister Montgomery Only problem with that calculation: you aren't allowed to either buy or sell WoW gold for RL money. That's what I wrote in the post you quoted. Blizzard, SOE, NCSoft and other game publishers ban players on a regular basis for selling of virtual items / currency. A ware that you aren't allowed to sell, because it belongs to Blizzard, has a value of exactly $0. "Not quite true Mr President" to quote the CIA Director in the film "Independence Day" when a debate occurred on USA1 relating to aliens and Area 51 A unique weapon, armour set, or other device, does have what is called a "fungible value". That is it can be weighed in terms of effort obtaining it against the reward of having it. In turn that effort is time, experience, and sometimes luck, which translates into fungible value. Express that how you like, Gold, US Dollars, Pounds Sterling, or Lindens. They are all interchangeable because they all represent "money" an intangible or tangible expression of demand. To help you along the road on this one back in the 1970s and 1980s the USSR Rouble was presumed by some not to have a worth because it was not convertible......officially......each way. But as we know that was not quite true because it was. Different types of money are always ultimately convertible, because if it were not, it would not be money. In the case of WoW Gold it is, unofficially, but it is convertible. Like all money. Because somebody somewhere wants “Holy Demon Deathslayer” or its like and will exchange one defined set of “money” for another in terms of goods or services |
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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07-12-2007 10:27
From: Chip Midnight I'm not sure where you're linking from. I'd guess from the community pages? If so, those are only open to members (who should have already read the info on the main site and in the TOS). I don't think that quite makes sense though! If we agree today that you will be allowed to rent a conference venue from me for 2 hours per week, then after that we agree that I'll give you full ownership of the venue (and you pay me for it).. does that mean that when you go and try to take over the venue, I can say "no, you still only have it for 2 hours a week, because even though it's yours per our new agreement, our old agreement that you'd only use it for 2 hours a week is still in force?" After you've formed a relationship with a company, they may - for extra money - offer you more favourable contract terms. I can certainly understand an island purchase being seen that way. |