Beyond SL - OpenSim, Clones and Standalone.

Lol you think they read previous posts at Slashdot? ROFL

Its partially reverse engineered, some of the communications between client and sim were reverse engineered before the viewer code was released.

Lol I would not dare to speculate what the Linden annoucement is going to be, it could be anything from declaring a Purple Day to announcing an increase or decrease in tier.

From what Rock is saying it seems p2p grids are feasible despite all the various badwidth and stability problems. I read the blog briefly and it doesn't look like rocket science (assuming that includes lighting fireworks as the baseline)

The key problem of course is the assets ( as has been identified many times before ) any sort of standardised asset management system that is also open source is of course wide open to abuse - even if you take SL out of the picture - you would still want some way of transferring your assets from one opensim to another.

Maybe the asset thing is a "secure paid-for service" - in fact that service is probably the one that LL would fear the most as it holds all the crown jewels in effect and makes the grid diversity feasible

Assets are seen as the big problem, but are they really a problem? If a megagrid is envisaged - sort of like SL but enormous and spread over many servers throughout the world - then yes, assets would be a problem. But why envisage such a megagrid? I see the future as being independant, yet connected, grids and sims, where the assets in each part stay in each part - like the web is today. People who use the megagrid as SL is used, will have what they think of as a home, where their main assets are kept. Inventory contents will be loaded on entering each different part.

Even now there are companies selling space (sims) on their own grids to businesses. Inter-grid connectivity isn't there yet, so the grids are small and specifically functional, but it's happening already.

I've used this example before, but I can envisage a supermarket having its own little grid, where shoppers can walk the aisles, put things in their baskets, and buy at the checkout for home delivery. Such a grid wouldn't need to be able to connect to other grids, although it would be good if they did.

[added]
A bigger problem that I see is the very ability to move between grids. If you can move from a small grid to SL, say, and you have plenty of assets in SL, including L$, then the small grid owner may be able to go into SL as you.

Hold on... instead of L$ why dont we just use REAL MONEY? (Thinks of supermarket analogy)

The bigger problem you mentioned is still related to assets AFAICS and the portability of said assets....

I'm still thinking of this "secure-asset-service" concept. If you had an account in SL but had a 3rd party manage your assets would you subscibe to such a service? If it means you can move from one grid to another and keep all the stuff you have.

I know there is something in TOS about who owns the IP for digital assets - so assuming this coul be worked around

From Cory Ondrejka blog's:
If he left over differences it's the realist and sane one that left and the dreamer that stayed behind.

Use 3D what 3D is good for and where you actually get added value from it and leave the rest as it is. 3D for 3D's sake just doesn't make any sense.

I'm inclined to agree with Kitty/Cory's point here.

In RL I follow domain driven design principles - that means that the problem domain is essentially the priority rather than the technological solution (or tools). A screwdriver is very good at manipulating screws but it considerably less effective at cutting hair for example.

Meanwhile the 3rd Party Asset server idea is one of my favourite subjects (with the exception of talking about myself of course) - much more interesting than the old "premium/no-pay who gets to log on argument" or the ignore this thread - which frankly I have.

Another recent thread:

"Opening the grid...? How feasible is it and how would it work..."
/327/06/263133/1.html

I'm on Open Life as well- I did it mostly for the oh wow factor- meaning - I wanted a glimpse at SL back then. It crashes horribly- but it is new- mean time, I have a place to try on clothes I make with out the up load fees. Fro me it is a learning tool and nothing more for now.

Oddly enough, Cory used another of my examples - the Amazon type bookstore. People here argued against it, but Cory thought it would be useful in 3D

Nobody was talking about "3D for 3D's sake", Kitty.

I wasn't thinking of the portability of assets - I was thinking that some unscrupulous small grid owner could go to SL as you and steal what you have - especially L$, which would subsequently be converted to US$ and cashed out. It happens now with websites, so it would be sure to happen in the grid system. A few years ago, I came across a website host that was modifying customer pages whenever a big search engine's spider requested them. The modifications were to the host's gain, of course (links to his various sites were added, so they got plenty of stolen IBLs). I showed it to Google and the host site was outa there pdq. That was just for the IBLs, and it wasn't a unique occurence amongst small hosts. If people are low enough to do it for some IBLs, they are certainly low enough to do it for real money.

It's the first time I've heard of the concept and I'd need to consider it a bit.

He said this:

Which quote did you read? He said "bad use of 3D".

Guess I need reading glasses then cause that's what you wrote implies to me .

He said this:-

Something extremely similar to that was what was talked about in a thread a while back.

See my previous post.

Then you need reading glasses.

He said this:

Heee, I hear you. I find the Beta Grid works pretty good for that except you only get the inventory you come over to the Beta Grid with (nothing you've uploaded since then.) We actually had our Necros sim put on the Beta grid so we have our private little testing ground.

hehe. It was so similar as to be pretty much identical. The only difference is that, in the previous thread's example, it was a book salesman, and in Cory's example, it was someone else, but they were doing exactly the same thing

This is all a bit vague and out of context - maybe I need my spectacles.

Seriously though it wasn't so long ago that people were saying Vegtables???

Vegetbales??? Who would buy vegetables on the interent are you crazy?

Now we get a weekly box of organic vegetables delivered to our door...

While a virtual bookshop would seem rather more effort than you need to go to when you can just dial up amazon there are plenty of retail concepts that could migrate...

Kitchens and Bathrooms - plan your kitchen refit, that kind of thing. Architecture firms who want to quickly bash together walkthrough POCs without needing to resort to Autocad. Try before you buy for clothing firms

A more realistic application of self-served opengrid sims is for businesses both large and small who want to enable home working effectively and may, for many reasons, not want to be connected to the main grid

Blah blah I'm sure there are many more

The discussion in the previous thread was about when you don't know a specific book that you want.

There are mnay more, and that's why it'll come - it's already starting. One use that occured to me today is to recreate a holiday park for people to look round before booking or going.

Some sort of access mechanism for your theme park/<insert another concept> would need to be developed where users could have "one-time-access" so you could click on a stock av and *bam* you are in the world as that character - no money or assets or building rights required.

Lets say for example you are a council planning department - new buildings could be "mocked" up virtually and members of the public could explore and comment ( or object ) before any concrete is poured or decisions made.

How about virtual cinemas? Get the cinema experience without leaving your armchair or getting salt poisoning from the popcorn - you could then charge a lower access fee to see the latest hollywood blockbusters

Test drive the latest and greatest SUVs without burning any fuel... ok replace SUV with latest Hybrid Electric

All of these things you can already do in SL - but a business/government would likely want complete control of the environment especially if you expect large volumes of public users or want to charge people for access - hence why opengrids is such an interesting proposition

For all of the things mentioned, there is no need for inter-grid connectivity, and they can be done right now. They are being done right now. I don't think it will be too long before we start to see privately owned business grids on the go, just as we see websites. There's a forum user who's company is doing it, and I'm sure there are many others who are getting them going too. It's the coming thing, imo. Sim designers/builders will be in great demand before too long, just as website designers were some years ago - before they became 10 a penny. It's a coming, ground floor, business for anyone who wants to learn good building in SL.

I still see myself primarily as an SL resident. That's where I meet people, party, make my clothes, exhibit my creations and seek my fame and fortune.

On my standalone I build and play about with terraforming. It's a good place to go when SL is offline or I want to play at controlling regions (except I'm not in overall control a 'Ruth'Test User owns it all). The ME that resembles my real SL av is just an additional resident there. Also, if ever SL comes to an end, which I hope it never does, I'll still have the standalone as a substitute.

The OpenLife grid I only go to as a landless vistor. I don't even wear clothes there, except when I'm testing textures. I have nothing, unless you count my 100m diameter megaprim clubs that I can rez for an hour or so above vacant land if I'm using the RealXtend viewer. Using the ordinary SL one, you can see and visit structures made from these oversize prims, but you can't create them and ones saved in your invo don't appear there, so they can't be rezzed unless you go relog using RealXtend.

so these OpenSims have more prims then the OpenSims on the real SL (3750?)

The number of prims is unlimited (except, ultimately, by your computer hardware). Megaprim creation is standard.

The number of regions on your PC is also unlimited (except, ultimately, by your computer hardware).

Once you have created your standalone sim(s) you can connect to any number of free grids, including OSGrid.

Pseudo-teleporting between your sim and the SL grid, and back, is currently possible, and full teleporting is being worked on.

The last main points are,

a) It is all absolutely free. No set-up fees, no tier, no 19%VAT, no Paypal,

b) No 'big-brother' restrictions,

c) It is not 'down for maintenance to improve your online experience' when you need it the most.

Rock

You are getting confused between OpenSpace sims and OpenSims. OpenSpace sims are LL's reduced prim sims, OpenSims are equivalent to LL's full sims except that the people making the software to run them have lifted some of the restrictions that even full SL sims have.

The problem here is micropayments. The cost of most items in SL would not be worth making any kind of regular payment transaction with real money. So either it would not work or the prices of most things would be vastly inflated to make it worth processing the credit card transaction etc. Real world money does not generally deal with micropayments well. The L$ is LL's micropayment answer to that problem.