From Aristotle's privacy policy

http://integrity.aristotle.com/index.php_option=com_content&task=view&id=45&Itemid=58.html


Our site uses an order form for customers to request information, products, and services. We collect visitor's contact information (like their email address) and financial information (like their account or credit card numbers). Contact information from the order form is used to send orders and information about our company to our customers. The customer's contact information is also used to get in touch with the visitor when necessary. Financial information that is collected is used to bill the user for products and services.



So you will have to provide and e-mail address and then get spammed with their company's information. Hopefully they allow you to opt out of those e-mails. Maybe I'm reading it wrong. Are we the "customers" or the "visitors" or neither?

This site gives users the following options for changing and modifying information previously provided:


The only way this is possible is if they store the information...

This site does not provide visitors' information to third parties.

This at least is somewhat of a comfort, kind of.

This site has security measures in place, including server password and firewalls, to protect the loss, misuse and alteration of the information under our control.

server passwords can be hacked and it's possible to get past a firewall. Again though, this statement also implies that they store the information.

Overall a privacy statement that is very short and has very few details!

"Contact information from the order form is used to send orders and information about our company to our customers."

Guess that overrides "This site does not provide visitors' information to third parties." The devil is in the details, as always.

You and I, as customers of Linden Lab, are not entering into any relationship or agreement with Integrity or with Aristotle. Linden Lab is. This privacy policy quoted here is for customers of Aristotle. That would be Linden Lab, not us.

The blog states that no personally indentifying information will be stored either by the Integrity service or by Linden Lab. So I guess this whole thing really is going to come down to a matter of trust.

Do we trust that Daniel Linden is telling the truth in his blog post? Rubber meets road here:



If at the end of the day, this is not a sufficiently believable statement, there are a few choices one could make -

1) Decline to participate in the verification process. It is, after all, optional.

2) Should one desire to access Mature content in Second Life, verify anonymously.

3) Should the verification process one day be imposed on all residents as a condition of participating in Second Life, verify anonymously.

4) Should one not trust the "anonymous" part of the process, cease participating in Second Life.

Man I hate it when I agree word for word with Zap!!!

Great points.......wish I could put it words of one syllable like that.

And thanks for the help last night Zap........hope I can return the favor some day.

Quoted for emphasis no matter how hard people try to tell those over reacting and stuff no one seems to bother so please read this over 20 times and realize that YOUR over reacting

if you dont like this age stuff then stop going to bars buying cigarettes and booze and anything else because otherwise the word hyprocrite is coming to mind here. This stuff exists already its not any different then what already exists only in the minds of those stiring up nonsense is it any different.

and honestly since it only relates to porn its not a huge deal your not supposed to be accessing it without verifying anyhow. If you walked into a store and as a 13 year old kid and attempted to buy a playboy magizine you would be shoed outa the store so honestly stop with these ridicoulous crazy threads

your doing it on purpose there is no issue here no one is gonna store anything no one is gonna sell anything they are checking your id at the door saying yes boss this guy is over 18 he can pass ONCE and then moving on

But why only porn? Why not violence and foul language? Porn in SL is amusing at best but if you are saying this is to limit it because of age then why not violence and swearing? Films and games are frequently age capped for these reasons. I agree completely with age verification but I am puzzled as to why everyone thinks this should only relate to porn? It should simply relate to accessing the gird since it is supposed to be for over 18s only.

This is Total BS...


This entire "policy" serves just 1 purpose.... to compile RL info so the Feds have to only go one place to get it.

LL has obviously made some kind of 'Deal' with the Feds....

And all this 'Policy' does is circumvent established Law in the US...

ATM records need to be subpoenaed by the Gov to procecute anyone... and getting those from an overseas Provider ( either CC, or ISP ) is rather difficult.

By making this a ''Requirement.... now your info is inside the US... and is covered by US Law...

I won't be giving up any info....they (LL) can KissMyA_ _!

And as for the TOS.... it's BS too.... trying to say we as residents are responsible for our actions...GET A LIFE LL...


because the lawsuits are coming!!

As for the rest of you Residents who think this is a good-thing.... you need either a Lawyer... or a REAL LIFE!

Because if you comply w/ this crap... all you are doing is opening yourself to ID Theft...

This policy has nothing to do with Age Verification.... it's a ''smoke-screen'' to Data-Mine your RL Info.... WITH your permission.

Maybe I misread the blog but I came away with everyone needing to be "age verified" to enter a mature sim. LL would automatically have their mature areas flagged as containing adult content by the label "M" or "PG" attached to SLURL. And they were telling the residents who own their own sims or islands that they will be required to do the same.

I could be wrong, though. I'm going to get verified........otherwise I won't be able to go "home". My SL home is in an mature sim.

From the OP's link,



I guess the best bet is to request removing your personal information from their database AFTER your age verification has been passed to SL.

its related to adult content because LL says its going to be that's why ask them not me

if they asked me to verify to remain on the grid to do it I would. The fact is that they allow free accounts which i dont think is realy that horrible a thing because not everyone has access to a credit card for a lot of reasons but still wants to go into second life. Since its a metaverse that is attempting to resemble a 3d version of the internet over time the only thin you need to "surf second life at this point is an internet connection". If they decided they wanted everyone to surf the internet to verify age then it would not be an issue. They have in a sort of non challant manner also stated they are going to give access of teens from teen grid to PG areas in second life main grid hence the reason for age verification in areas containing "sensitive' content.


This would be my logic but they have stated that teens will eventually be accessing pg rated stuff on the main grid over time so it looks like they are positioning themselves to do so.

Either way i'm not sure what the fuss is about other then its a one time check which might be a minor inconvenience to some because they have to find a fax machine. Its not like you will have to do it everytime you enter an area its a one time check.

Anyhow such is life this is mostly older users bringing this stuff up who have suddenly surfaced with accounts older then the hills I actualy dont see a lot of 1 year old accounts upset over this so this is looking to me like an issue of Second LIfe is evolving in order to keep up with the times and the older users trying to hold it back to be the game it once was when it first started out with a small population and none of these larger population problems.

Second Life has grown Linden Labs is trying to keep up people are mad because they are working to keep up but at the same time they are mad when they dont keep up. AT this point I think i sympathise with Linden Labs as no matter what they do its never gonna be right never.

yes they are in cohoots with "teh feds" to persecute me for something I haven't done as non american who does't even want porn or care about it

I wasn't only asking you, I quoted you as an example of what I'm seeing everywhere. This idea that the verification is only for access to pornography. Maybe that's what it will be but I think the scope is much too narrow. Don't people want minors prevented from being exposed to violence and swearing also? Isn't the easiest solution to make age verifcation madatory for access to the grid? Having verification as an opt in solution just seems redundant when the game is supposed to be adult only anyway.

You are. I told you this yesterday in another thread. Owners of parcels in mature sims will find a new checkbox in the Land Properties screen called 'Adult Content'. If they tick that checkbox, unverified users will NOT be able to access their parcels. If they don't tick it, unverified users WILL be able to access them.

Scroll down to Robin Linden's comment in that blog entry for clarification.

This age verification for accessing porn is an american thing some states demand it. Why do i know so much about age verification? Well for the first 5 years of my internet career i spent time building adult sites because there was a huge boom and the contracts were great! lol


I have had to verify about 10 times in order to do a bunch of things on the net for clients like buy content mostly for them etc. The biggest inconvenience was the first time I did it with the first company I had to get out of my chair and photocopy my drivers license it was a long walk that 5 feet lol and then i spent 49 cents to fax it to them (long distance charge they didn't have a 1-800 fax number you know so i grumbled at that for about 2 seconds) At least with LL we aren't verifying for each unique business .
After that I only had to walk to the fax machine because I kept my photocopied license in a file next to me but i did still grumble about the 49 cents i had to pay hehe.

ps although i have already stated it they did mention already in the blog they were going to be at one point allowing teens access to pg areas

I think this is incorrect, Peggy. "M" sims are mature (not adult), and may or may not contain parcels flagged "adult." The age verification is only to access specifically flagged parcels that contain adult material, not mature sims in general: "Land owners will be required to flag their land as ‘adult’ if it contains adult content."

The privacy statement there is only to do with that website. It is not a general privacy statement about their service.

There is no information here that has any relevance to any use by LL of their services, unless you specifically have to go to integrity.aristotle.com to register, which you don't. This is just confusing the issue.

I don't understand your reasoning Willhelm. When I go to a bar, if I buy cigarettes or alcohol, I don't have to produce documents commonly used to commit identity crimes. So how the heck is that "no different" to what's going on here?

It's not just related to Porn, Willhelm. People are already saying they will get verified and enable the adult content checkbox on their land even though there will not be adult content on their land. Why? Because Linden Lab has made it clear that land owners are responsible for content on their land.

So, if a couple of newbies decide to whip out their Xcite attachments on your land in your absence Willhelm, and have a game of how's your father - and your land isn't marked 'adult content' only - well you could wake up the next day to an email from Linden Lab explaining that you've been suspended (or worse) for not flagging your land with the adult content flag.

It's not inconceivable that people would do this maliciously (as they already do with underage reports to get people temporarily banned from the game), so it's really in EVERYBODY'S interests to get verified and to enable the adult content checkbox on their land.


No Willhelm. This is the equivalent of IDing EVERYBODY who enters your store, whatever their age, and in RL that doesn't happen at all. Any store that did that wouldn't have any customers at all. But that is irrelevant.

If the information being requested of international users wasn't so susceptible to ID crimes, if the Data Protection Authority in Belgium wasn't advising European Citizens against sharing sensitive data with the United States right now because their data sharing practices breach the European Data Protection Directive, then your dismissal of everybody's concerns might not be so ludicrous.

you have never produced a drivers license to prove your age or a birth certificate? I have

those are some of the documents they are asking for

big deal

I got a feeble mind so take what I have to say with that. I think LL is actually thinking ahead for once. If they are, in fact, planning on opening the main grid to minors then they do need and independant means of verification of age. It's a way of avoiding the problems of "My Space" and other sites that have legal problems due to an "honor" system of relying on everyone to police themselves and "do the right thing". Is it a legal wall they are hiding behind? Maybe......in fact, probably. Is it 100% foolproof..........nope. But it does put the offenders in a box that can be more easily pursued and caught. As side it also protects us residents....afterall if something awful happens to a minor not only will be LL held liable so will every resident who happened to have contact with the minor no matter if the resident was unaware that the person they were dealing with was a minor. Without that wall we have to assume everyone is a minor to stay safe.

An example: Peggy Teeniedoll gets on the grid and wants to make some lindens so she decides to become and "escort". Does the nasty with 10 male avis with no problems and gets her a good bank roll to make her life in SL her "dream". Then along comes Pervie Vert who she friends and "confesses" her true age (teens do this all the time, you know). Six months later Peggy and Pervie decide they would meet in RL (yeah stuff like that happens often). And Peggy gets raped.

Who is going to get supeneaed? LL, Pervie and EVERY OTHER AVI WHO HAD CONTACT WITH PEGGY.............where is a shield for the average avi without some valid attempt on LL's part to verify that Peggy was of age? There isn't one now.

That's one of my main concerns.........aside from the teen griefers. I'm glad LL is finally addressing the issue.

why would a couple of kids or newbies work for an age verification site you make no sense honestly. Its not kids or newbies screening me its adults who are bonded in a company that is secure not a minor screening me

again your stretching it

again i have yet to be banned or suspended or arrested for verifying my age on the internet

i have verified at matrix content adult legal and a bunch of other places which not so pg like names which I will leave out I'M STILL HERE me and only me

A Driving Licence issued before 1998 (ie. those held by the vast majority) in the UK is not a proof of identity.
At the bottom of a UK birth certificate there is text which states it is not a proof of identity.

What on EARTH are you talking about?

I was telling you that if two people decided to strip off, whip out their genital attachments and have sex on your land in your absence, you could be abuse reported for not checking the 'adult' content box, and find yourself suspended.

If you're going to insult me, at least learn to read.

well then i guess you will be using your passport because its fine for me


its your choice do you like porn so much you see a need to verify? if so you have likely already had to verify at another american site so its probably a non issue to actual porn users. I would say your NOT a porn user and has never accessed a site demanding such things which is again required in certain states you have gone elsewhere or not used any in the first place

Again DONT verify if you feel its a huge risk to you.

Does LL specifically say the verification is for access to porn?