Resident resmodding a dead issue?

I'm hoping for a Linden answer to this although I won't hold my breath since Katt is busy elsewhere on those discussion threads but if any residents in the loop know that works too.

Is the idea of resident moderation essentially a dead issue, it hasn't come up recently on the discussions with Katt and she hasn't mentioned it at all so I figured I'd ask.

Although I think Strife was a bit gung-ho about it I think we've slipped too far to the other end and while you do your best Katt I think resident moderation (a small number carefully picked and answerable to you would work best I think) should be reconsidered if it's off the table at the moment. A lot of people (myself included) have volunteered at various points to be resmods and I can't speak for anyone else but my offer still stands and I wouldn't be surprised if many of the other regulars feel the same way.

I agree with your assessment (including that of my tenure). Things have slipped a bit too far. It's a hard job though.

So I think you folks rock to offfer to be Resmods. It's a topic under discussion at LL too. I hope we'll resolve it shortly and be able to go into details.

One concern I have is that such a role can put a Resmod at a distance from the community, and that's not ideal. How have those of you who have been in that role felt about that issue?


-- Katt

Perhaps a Resmod-specific surname for anonymity?

Katt could probably answer it best but I'm guessing that nom de plumes would be more complicated than it looks because of the way that the forums are linked to the rest of the registration process and the site which very well could also be an issue for upgrading, I don't know and it's probably too complicated to want to know.



You'll excuse us if we say that we've heard that before, well before Strife resigned the post of resmod LL said that they were considering different resmod solutions and it's always ended up fading away.



Katt, I'd argue that very little could actually separate you from the entire community and that being separated from segments of the community is just part of sl. An example, I'm personally somewhat used to it as a mentor since I'm nice and friendly and cheerful but professionally as a mentor it's tough to actually get close to people in that community because they are literally pop in ask a question and pop out and while some do take a personal interest in knowing you the person it is very peripheral in most cases dealing with the new resident community. It's something you get used to and you immerse yourself in other areas of the community as well and since each resident is multi-faceted and in my experience immersed in many sub communities in the sl community being separate from some parts and closer to others is natural. The forums are a rather large community of sl residents but not all of them by any means and if you do your job well some people may resent you and you may grow separate from some members of the community you have your other communities and even within that community others will respect you for taking the responsibility and for your decisions.

The Resmod program needs to die. Mods should not be members of the community with axes to grind.

Then what do you suggest? having hired community managers like Blizzard does would probably work well (seems to work for them) but that means more employees for LL that they'd have to pay and even though the forums are starting to see attention again from LL I personally doubt LL is willing to put that much overhead in to manage the community especially with no impending need to do so. In my opinioon thanks to Katt we're in a situation that we don't need more hired employees watching us but at the same time I think we could do with some more moderation which would be best served by the residents.

Moderation has been at about the right level since Strife left. This is a pretty tame forum.

Considering some people are currently at the point where they even complain when threads that have degenerated into flaming are closed (on request by the OP or someone else), anyone (Linden or resmod) attempting to moderate RA as it should be and has been in the past according to the current guidelines will encouter a lot of backlash for a while.

Ideally a resmod wouldn't be part of the current idle banter, disruptive community in the first place because they won't be able to objectively rule on all their friends' posts, nor would be their past behaviour of not respecting the guidelines and lack of self-moderation set a great example either.

The intent and purpose of Resident Answers is something that needs to be adressed first of all as well (specifically the amount of (if any) off-topic discussion that's acceptable or practices such as derailing threads). It's clearly essential that any resmod is capable of following the guidelines, regardless of how they personally feel about them, and not moderate according to his/her own agenda but without a clear set of guidelines of how RA should progress from this point onward I don't think anyone can seriously volunteer and know whether they'll be able to enforce rules/guidelines they might end up strongly disagreeing with.

There was a discussion about it at the start of the Resmod program years ago but we decided at the time that public accountability was more important. It has never really been a problem, the worst that has happened was that people would occasionally IM me in world about forum stuff.

Chris, I totally agree, Mods should not be members of the community with axes to grind. That is one of the reasons there is a screening process. We have always had a substantial amount of transparency when it comes to identifying moderator abuse. I'm sure if there were any evidence of a moderator singling out an individual unfairly it would have already come to light and that moderator removed or punished. Yourself and others have always kept a very close eye on the activities of the moderators, when there have been problems they have been pointed out.

While I would not call RA a cesspool, I feel that the moderation is inconsistent and slow to respond, and only incites more posts that are way outside the bounds (e.g., the E.Coli PSA - as if that has anything to do with SL). Yes, it needs a fairly light touch so as to not strangle the humor out of everyone, but it shouldn't take days for a libelous thread to get closed. I absolutely agree that resident moderators should not be members of the community with axes to grind, and they shouldn't be part of the banter.

I'm inclined to partially disagree with the assessment that they shouldn't partake in the banter. I agree they shouldn't be disruptive but to be good moderator they need to fit with the community, and a part of that is being active in the community.

Becoming a moderator is something of a social promotion, they will be judged at first by how popular and visible they were in the community. If you choose an outsider then people won't know what to expect (this isn't a problem just something to note).

But an outsider can be viewed solely on their actions at the time, not colored by history.

There are a few people, and I know I'm one of them, that are sticklers for people posting the right question in the right forum. It has earned me the occasional ire of people who like to say that people like myself have a stick up my posterior if I say "this is better suited in Building Tips/Texturing Tips/etc." If someone like that got a "social promotion" we would be judged in part on that history like children ("teacher's pet got promoted", and seen as hypocrites for any other outside-the-rules postings we may have made.

I'd prefer an outsider that has enough personality to "fit in" but can be viewed as acting objectively. And I don't see why they need the name Linden in order to do that.

Hello. I was just arriving in SL and being active towards the end of the resmod program. Here is a couple things I saw. The program towards the end became very adversarial between some of the forum posters and some of the resmods. I think it did cause some negative posts to happen specifically to tweak resmods . I am not sure that justifies stopping the program but it might. Depends on the track you want to take. Just as an example = If you have a child who throws a tantrum everytime your in the store there are a couple different tactics you can take. One of them would be never taking that child to the store; or you could leave the minute the kid throws the tantrum; or you could stand and wait the tantrum out.

I think if you start a resmod program going again all the members need to be very firmly trained and handle things as consistently as possible. You need to have a good idea of what you want it to accomplish. Firm guidelines on what you can let slip and what you can't.

One possibility I see is Kat could have a small group of moderators that don't actually close threads or post warnings but that read and keep her informed on things that need to be dealt with. That way she takes the ultimate responsibility but still gets assistance. If she is on vacation or anything that group could report to someone else.

As far as being somewhat seperate from the community, any time you step into a responsibility role that will happen. Whether it is as a shop owner, directing a role play, working on a large event. You can never make all the people happy. If resmods are screened you should be able to choose people who have a good idea of that and what they are getting into. It is bound to have its ups and downs. Good luck whatever you decide.

I do think something has to happen here.
Separate the off topic and RA, something. Although this place is not as bad as some forums I go to, its better now before it gets worse. Just my opinion. Also on place does have separate duties moderator and forum admin. Kat could take the place of Admin and those who assist moderators with some what limited powers maybe?
I am just tired of all the fighting lately.

That is how the system originally was designed to work, the ResMods would do small scale cleanup but would defer everything to the Linden moderators. It worked well for a while... then the Lindens got distracted and fell behind on moderation duties, we would lock a thread and have it pending review for ages. It got to the point where I would only use review for the most serious of problems (repeat abusers) and even then it might take a month to get reviewed. The forums went for about a year with very little linden oversight before I got out. ResMods don't have all that much power, they can only move, (un)lock, merge and split threads. It's rough when you send up red flags about bad behavior and they go unnoticed.

I figured it was something like that, the Lindens in some ways have a lot to answer to when it comes to community relations debacles and how they treat their residents and their volunteers.

In regards to what powers resmods should have that's probably about right, I think most people, myself included, would be uncomfortable giving resmods banning power here doubly so because of the in-world implications that come with a forum ban (if that tie-through is direct). I guess it's a thread control model where you can control troublemakers by locking and reporting vs a user controlling model where you can ban the actual users from the forums.

The idea of ResMods being able to suspend people from just the forums is an interesting idea. I don't think I've ever really considered it. I think it would be a good thing, it would prompt the ResMods to think harder about what they do. I know for me it would have brought me needed perspective to some situations. It's one thing to recommend the execution, it's another thing to carry it out yourself. I would have been very uncomfortable using that power, it would have motivated me to try and salvage more situations.

I think the threat of Linden Review should be enough. I wouldn't feel comfortable with a resident making that decision. A recommendation is far different than a decision, and the recommendation should be backed up with dates, posting history, etc.

When it came to document and supporting recommendations, a forum such as this is an Orwellian dream, everything is kept indefinitely and can be easily searched. There is a tendency for your resmods to become thought police, compound that with them having to constantly make negative recommendations and you end up with over zealous resmods. There needs to be emotional separation. It's why the District Attorney and the Police are separate.

We never brought anything to the attention of Linden Review without citing evidence (threads & posts).

War is peace
Freedom is slavery
ignorance is strength


Even trusting that the resmods are completely honest (I know Strife at least was) separation between those who can ban and those who are looking into possible bad behavior and who then have to (ostensibly) prove that the person should be banned to the people who ban is a good thing and slightly off-topic one I wish the G-Team would implement although not letting moderators at least close threads would have and would in the future be a bureaucratic nightmare since in practice even with a dedicated staff on both sides you'd have way too many reports to process at once so at some point you have to give the moderators some power and trust them to leave their emotions and relationships out of it and act professionally and be professionals (even if they aren't paid and therefore don't meet the definition of professional per-se)

I don't remember any of the ResMods being outright dishonest. Maybe they weren't transparent, though transparency takes a lot of work.

When people edit their posts, or delete them, do the original versions and deleted posts remain around forever?

Just think, the BS ins the "deleted - let it die " thread will be there as vital historical data years from now.

Pardon my intrusion, but I actually have some first hand experience with some of the concerns mentioned in this thread.

I moderate a few groups on adultfriendfinder.com. You think the kids here are bad, try playing with the "adults". The site is very poorly organized by the parent company which maintains a very low level of direct involvement. Coupled with the poor tools/coding that moderators have to work with, the site is a haven of trolls, griefers and other various unpleasantries. Including one individual to my knowledge who is a RL stalker. Sorry to be harsh, but coming here felt just like home. Tho I keep over-estimating your trolls

Anyway, one of the groups I moderate is a larger one, and pertinent to this discussion because in it I "ascended to power" from a peon.

The first observation I can make, is that a designated off-topic area is absolutely essential and cannot be avoided. In my observances here it's the single most frequent complaint from BOTH sides of the fence. Those who enjoy the banter bemoan having to sneak around in other people's threads and not having a place set aside for it. While those who wish not to partake complain constantly that it gets in anyway and they want not to see it. I had the exact same problem there. When I first took over my group the prior mod wanted only "serious" discussion. It never happened. Striking a balance between the "frivolous" posts and the "serious" ones was the biggest problem tearing that group apart. I have a slightly different structure to work within, I effectively have 1 fewer level of subcategories available. But the important part is that I carved an acceptable sized niche for the frivolous, and made it clear to everyone that it was acceptable, but to be contained to that designated area. I've been mod going on almost 2 years now and that has worked very well. Set aside a designated GD area here. This area does not inherently need to fall into anarchy. The section can and *should* still be closely moderated for acceptable behavior. The only caveat being no strict requirement to adhere to questions about SL, or building/coding/etc/etc. People in world don't strictly talk about SL, they chit-chat. It's unnatural to expect they would be any different here. The forums should be viewed more as an extension of all aspects of SL, including friendships and community, and not as a separate meta-entity.

Another observation is that the "separation" occurs spontaneously, and is NOT desirable. I was hand selected by the then mod to take over when he left the site. A resmod here would likewise initially be seen as imbued with power. People definitely reacted to that and consciously or unconsciously altered their behavior. This came as quite a surprise to me the first time being unprepared. Anything I posted was revered and never challenged which was not what I wanted. At first it was impossible for me to discuss or debate things with others "on even ground". Luckily I had some wonderful assistant mods and key group members that helped me re-establish the tone. It took time and alot of growing pains. But eventually people could tell the difference between -- when I was just being "me" and joking, jiving and debates were acceptable and that my opinion was no different than anyone elses -- from the times where I was "laying down the law". The only way I can see resmods here being effective is by exploiting that same dynamic. They need to be residents first, and mods second. If a cop tells you you must wear your seatbelt it's different than a friend telling you that you should wear your seatbelt. Granted there are those who won't listen no matter what, and there are those who don't need to be told. The largest part under the bell curve will despise the cop and listen to the friend. They comply either way, but the animosity factors are polar opposites. Resmods being engaged in the banter should be encouraged. But each individual resmod, needs to be capable of two very critical things. One, they need some very clear indicator, either by tone of voice, vocabulary style, or just an outright symbolic indicator of when they are being a mod. It should be rare and obvious. This will allow them to be a regular resident the majority rest of the time. The other critical thing, is they just simply *MUST* be impartial. That is a character trait required of all resmods. If their friend steps over the line, then they need to do what needs to be done. With real friends, further action is almost never required. It's surprisingly clean. That relies on the first part tho.

Third, Resmods need to be prepared for the fact that it's a difficult, trying and frequently thankless job. The rewards are there, but usually few and far between. People are quick to criticize and slow to praise, it's just human nature. Rhino Hide is required. Training is not a bad idea. I wish I had had any then.

Forth. Lock is good. Move is good. I've never seen split/merge used and don't have them on my site so I cannot comment. I have ban available since I'm lead mod, but my assistant mods have it as well. I can see where the trepidation here stems. In my experience that's never caused a problem. One thing I find uncomfortably missing is Delete. "Transparency" sounds all well and good on paper. For the most part it should be used, like no lock without an explanation. Resmods should be very public figures. Occasionally there are just some things which should be eradicated on contact. With no explanation required since minimal public exposure is desirable. This would NOT be a common occurrence. A resmod needs to be capable of making many critical decisions and judgment calls. If you feel they cannot handle the responsiblity of having a delete button, and knowing when to not use it, they will have difficulties in other areas anyway and should not be a resmod.

Fifth. Professional and paid are not the same thing. A volunteer can still be professional (a paid employee can be unprofessional). Resmods should be expected to be professional at all times. Even while being "just a resident" it is somewhat expected they still lead by example and retain at least a minimum decorum. As much as I hate it, a small "separation" can never be fully eliminated. Even if they are residents, they will be role models to some, especially new members. This happens anyway, some members LL might as well be involved in the selection process.

That's "all" I have for now. FWIW, I also assumed leadership of a group *for* moderators as well. (Transition went much better the second time ) Smaller than my primary group but I've learned alot there. I have more experience in these matters than might be readily apparent. It's never been an official job nor resume material tho.

According to this blog entry resident resmodding truly is dead because rather than actually use people who know the nuances of the secondlife community they're outsourcing it. Neither Katt nor any other Linden has said who to but I guess that's the nail in the coffin. I'll IM Katt and request that she lock this thread when she gets a chance since it no longer is really relevant.