It might be time...

Ah OK I didn't understand that point at first about having LL step in instead.

I agree, I think we ought to be able to discuss these things. But the threads in this forum are supposed to be questions.

coco

going to move this over to the resmod forum, seem more appropriate there.

Ah, yes, that active lively area with all of three other threads, one of which is locked. It's sure to get some good discussion here.

Regards,

-Flip

could also go in feature suggestions, could move it there. since this thread turned into a discussion of the resmod program it seems better suited for here. Most commenting had already found this forum; so it looked like a non-issue.

One of these days someone is going to learn that any form of serious moderation, regardless of intent or reason, is pretty much an act of violence in front of others and you need to show some restraint until when it is absolutely required. Else you'll wind up very Right indeed all alone in a crap flat in Sheffield, as a friend put it once. Just sayin'.

Should Res Answers be renamed to:

Resident Assisting Newbies Today Umm.. no.

Seriously though... I think now that the furor over price hikes and copybot is settling down, Resident Answers will probably return to it's normal mostly relevant threads. (until the next crisis).

The obvious problem seems to come down to culture. When folks get angry they feel they have the right to use any open channel of communication to taunt and heckle. And because the volume exceeds any ability to effectively moderate it, people have come to assume that that this is acceptable community behavior.

I'm just a resident of SL... not a mentor, livehelper, res mod or liason, or linden... but here's my spin on the 'General Forum-like usage of Resident Answers':

Is Resident Answers the right place for residents to create new 'announcment' threads to alert other residents?

If it's FAQ-like, I certainly would argue that Resident Answers is an appropriate forum, (providing no better forum exists for it.)

But if it's more of a "I want everyone to know how I feel about (X)... how do you feel about (X)?" thread, then no. I'm not sure how anyone can think that's an appropriate opening post if they've read the charter for Resident Answers.
So where DO residents post alerts, warnings, announcements, or even just opinions that might be of general interest to everyone?

Well, let me answer my own question with a question: As a human being and a citizen of whatever country you live in... where do you go to make a free & uncensored announcement to all citizens?

(In the U.S. the 1st ammendment just says the government won't smite people for speaking their mind... they don't give us air time on TV to exercise that right uncensored and for free!)

Think of it this way: Just the online residents in SL now outnumber the population of small towns and rivals that of medium sized towns.

Could you imagine what that medium sized town would be like if everyone used bullhorns to express themselves?

Sound degrades over distance. RL postage, print, broadcast media has costs. Online has neither restriction... but can you imagine the email meltdown that would occur if we were on an unmoderated mailing list called: [email]everyone@earth.plan[/email]et

When we have something to say, we should ask ourselves... Which is more important... the message? or being heard? They're not the same.

If the message is important, we should work with other residents and lindens to raise awareness, and ask for help getting the message out to the most people, or at least the right people.

If just being heard is more important than the message, we should send email to LL and/or speak up on the 3rd party forums. Mis-using the forums to issue demands for attention is just creating unnecessary and likely hurtful drama.

(and for those of you that'd call me on it... yes this is an opinion piece.
But I didn't start writing it until this thread was moved to ResMods.

Act of Violence? That's a rather extreme (and unacceptable, IMO) usage.

1) When the meterman shuts off your water for non-payment, is that an act of violence?

2) When the cop pulls you over for speeding, is that an act of violence?

3) If someone cuts in line in front of you at the grocery store, is that an act of violence?

4) How about when Guido shows up at your door and breaks your kneecaps with a lead pipe because you don't have his boss Luigi Loanshark's money when it is due? Is THAT is an act of violence?

I tend to think forum moderation falls WAY under the first three. Your life, livelihood, and general quality of life goes on with no significant mental or physical trauma. As such, it doesn't even remotely qualify as an "Act of Violence".

You're so over-reacting to the metaphor. It's simple enough. When you continue to exert authority over a group of people, especially actions that can remove or silence others, it typically leads to an uncomfortable atmosphere if it's not used with caution. I've watched this happen on both sides of the scenario in various social communities online for quite some time on a smaller scale and along a wider scale in real life settings.

It doesn't really matter how 'right' you are for your reasons sometime, when you're seen constantly enforcing -- especially with zeal, it tends to make even the regulars of a group uncomfortable. For many, there's an inherent distrust of authority, which needs to be worked with instead of ignored. That element of fear and aversion is the same sort of instinct to avoid conflict in violent situations. They're both very decisive and sometimes harsh decisions that can have a negative social reaction.

Just because this isn't an 'important' situation (i.e. this is just a bloody forum), doesn't mean these guidelines don't apply and they shouldn't be considered.

But sure, dismiss it all as an exaggeration (as opposed to an abstraction) instead of considering any possible merit. So many people have this issue of staring at your finger when you're pointing at the sky.

Perhaps 'assault (without battery)' instead of 'violence' would have been a more apt choice of wording.

The key thing about 'enforcement' for me, is to make sure the transgressor is aware of what they did wrong... so that there's no doubt that this isn't arbitrary, it's their own fault.

There should be no anger or delight in the exercise of enforcement powers... but I don't see any reason for it to be utterly humorless. (providing it's shared with, not at the expense of the transgressor).

There's always going to be people that need to push the envelop of acceptable behavior because they think it's funny, or they're trying to get some sort of revenge... and, the rev. phelps 'types' that delight by behaving just barely within the letter of the law, in order to enrage and provoke enforcement enough so they make embarassing and costly mistakes.

I dunno. Mixing opinions with enforcement is risky, because it opens up the action taken for debate.

All I can say is I certainly don't want to be a rezmod.
Been there, done that kind of thing elsewhere for far too long.

Yes, and so many people point at the sky when they want you to look at their finger. When you use "exaggerated" words, even as metaphors, you inflame and draw attention away from your point (which you did, in my case, at least).



You won't get any disagreement from me there. I managed a LARP for 7 years, and did a two-year stint as a CM for a smaller MMO. Wielding authority comes with a heavy responsibility. It also requires a good, detailed ruleset, not only for the players, but for the staff as well, and also having a good system of checks and balances as well as good management of the staff. This is especially true of volunteers, because you don't have the same kind of control over them that you have with paid support staff.



It all boils down to matters of consistency breeding respect in the long term. When someone rules with a fair and even hand, lives and dies by the rules, and does everything in their power to give people a chance, they usually win the hearts and minds of those they hold court over to the point where they can expect and enjoy support from the forum regulars. I've seen it; I've lived it.

Rashness is always to be avoided, but swift, decisive action is often necessary to put the kybosh on growing issues before they grow large enough to make dealing with them a monumental task; that can happen quickly, too.



Again, I agree, however, sensationalizing the point with the extreme metaphor kinda distracts from it.

Well said
Egos have no place in a supervisory role. If an individual cant control their ego, or control the urge to feed such an ego, then they cant be trusted to be fair and even-handed.

To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.

To summarize the summary: anyone capable of getting themselves made President should by no means be allowed to do the job.

To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem.

-- The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Y'know, I dislike the chunk up someone's text and reply stuff, so I'll keep this fairly short. I seriously don't consider it sensationalism, but that's really your beef and not my own. Someone suggested the term 'assault' which I think might even be more of a loaded term, since it's pretty much the threat of violence except sounds far more menacing. If I was to even considered substitution here, I'd compromise on an 'act of aggression', which still fits in with what I'm attempting to point out here. Regardless of semantics here and what labeling is applied, I still think the end result is fear and alienation.

I find some of your responses quite curious because it seems like most of it is said in defense of someone's actions here which have not all been consistent, transparent and sometimes outside the bounds of reason -- which is something you seem to be arguing *for* and I'm not at all opposed to. There really is only one person most of these threads are discussing and have been for months now. If you're genuinely playing on the level and are only commenting on my choice of words, then that's cool. However, if not, then this is even more of a gigantic waste of time going back and forth on.

Regardless, I don't see much of a point continuing this, especially given how sporatic the forums are acting today.

and this is why some forum posts get locked.

many here make valid points, and my question may go unanswered(which, maybe in itself is an answer), but is it possible for anyone to remain neutral while resmoding? if no, then why are they still resmods?. thats the real question.

Yes, but it's hard (from firsthand experience), and was tiring to the point that you can in fact slip at times. And I have some differing views of how the process should work, as well as what forum software should be used. But in balance, I'm sure that those who are still here would be OK with my returning to ResMod if I ever cared to do so again (LL left an open invitation to me for re-joining - I left of my own accord, citing personal reasons and re-focusing on Uru Live's re-launch).

I consider it inevitable that LL will 'outsource' the forum to a (Paying/Verified) Resident or other group at some point; The question people should really ask is whom LL thinks can be trusted, and at what level of accountability should it be run under?

For example, should the new forum 'owner' run it under his/her RL name? I think so; Most of the Community lindens run under their own first names after all. Should the forum software be changed to something more flexible? Definately; Invision Power Board, though licensed (paid) software, is quite powerful. And what, exactly, is supposed to be the 'core' vision (in one sentence) of this forum anyway? That's the most lacking thing here, and is one of the big things all the 'third party' forums have nailed.

Of course, LL wants something like SlashDot's moderation system. Personally I don't think SlashDot themselves can handle their own moderation system now; It's an utter mess, and have a hellish time reading anything over there. I'm a member of many community-only forums (not just Uru-related either), and know that it is possible for a group of moderators to work well together - even with an OT/General subforum running. It just takes work from a volunteer group who really gives a damn.

--Alan

Err this forum runs vBulletin which is probably the most flexible forum system out there, I run 5 forums using it, and moderate/admin on another.

It also a full commercial product, $160 US$ for a single license.

This particular installation of vB kinda saddens me, a lot of handy things have been turned off and none of the really useful addons have been installed.

Their also way out of date, for version 3.0 the latest version is 3.0.17, but the latest overall is 3.6.4. (Suggestion to the forum admin: UPDATE for important security fixes)

Anyway just thought I'd stick my nose in and set some misconceptions straight.

Thanks, I'm always open to admitting being wrong.

My own major experience with vB has only been here and the Notebook Forums unfortunately; Almost all the other sites I frequent (including nearly every major Myst/Uru one) are IPB for some reason.

I suppose that means I've got a rather horrid representative sample. *shrug*

Anyway, I'll take a peek at their site over the weekend, since you've got me curious now.

--Alan