Die hard Windows user........

Oh boy.......here I go again. If any of you have read some of my posts in the "tech issue" section of these forums you know I'm pretty much the Windows type (I know at least one of you know me ). But, I want to know what all the hype is about Ubuntu and find out for myself why so many of you fall in love with the OS. I tried Linux once before about 5 or 6 years ago and wasn't impressed at all......just too much command line crap for my liking and I'd become accustomed to simply installing or uninstalling stuff without having to unpack modules, run utilities, etc just to get something on or off my computer. Guess, I'm somewhat lazy that way.........and Windows fits that style of user. Plus, I've been using Windows for years and understand how it works, it's weaknesses, strengths, and stupid quirks....call it familarity. I'm not planning on abandoning Windows. I just want to install Ubuntu as a second OS on it's own partition and use it for mostly web browsing, maybe SL (plus another virtual world I'll keep silent about to avoid a big argument over SL vs anything else). I don't plan on using it for my main OS and will keep Vista for most of my computing and playing.

Now that the ground work is laid down I have a few questions. I guess the first question that comes to mind is when I had Linux before (Mandrake 9.0) I had purchased the CDs and document manual from a large local computer store in Burbank, CA. When I went to install Mandrake I installed from Windows (I think the Windows version was Millinium Edition if I remember correctly) and the Linux CD gave me the option of creating a partition using the unused disk space on my HD......which I let Mandrake do for me. Plus, it also installed a dual boot utility for me. Will Ubuntu do the same? Do I need to send for the CD's or will a download do the same? Should I burn the program to a bootable CD and install from that? I read most of the documentation on the Ubuntu web site but I'm still a little confused........especially about the dual boot utility.

Next question. Drivers............I know I will need Linux specific drivers for my hardware. I'm going to make the assumption that Linux drivers will not interfere with Windows drivers since they are going to be on separate partitions on separate operating systems. Is that a correct assumption?

I have a home network with two computers connecting to the internet through a router/cable modem setup. Will Ubuntu launch a wizard to help me set it up so I can connect the the network (thereby connect to the internet) like Windows does? Or do I have to manually set it up? The documentation I read last night was a little vague on that. Will I have to reconfigure my router? I spent quite some time a few months ago locking that router down because I suspected a nieghbor of piggybacking on me and don't want to go through that again if I don't have to.....though that nieghbor as since moved and putting the router back to default probably won't cause me any problems now.

On the subject of routers. I have a Linksys WRT310N router. As are all routers now days it's a wireless one though I'm hard wired. The router is a little flakey when it gets hot.......and it runs pretty warm (according to the support forums it's a known issue with a work around being to elevate it to get more air moving through the unit). I have it on a wire stand and blow compressed air through it frequently however it still, on occassion, loses it's brain, want me to connect wirelessly (which I cannot do because I have no wireless adapter in this computer), and I'll loose my connection to the network. I know how to reconnect using the Windows reset IP utility. Does Ubuntu have such a utility or would I need to reboot the router to gain my connection back?

I suppose my last question is about security software. Firewall and antivirus/malware software in specific. I know Linux (and Macs) are more secure than Windows (but that's just because of the market share being what it is those systems are not just attacked as often........but they still can be attacked by some asshole who targets them). What would you recommend as good choices for security programs and where would I find them?

Those are my main questions for now. I really appreciate any information anyone can give me. And I would like to thank you now for any thought and effort you might give my questions

Peggy

I'm not familiar with Ubuntu, but I am familiar with UNIX and multi-booting. I can answer a few questions.

1. You should burn the Ubuntu installation CD image and boot from that to install it.

2. Drivers in Linux and Windows will not interfere.

3. You do not need any specific "security software" for Linux. Most of the actual useful things that such software does on Windows are either not needed (for example, a securely configured UNIX system doesn't need a firewall because there are no network ports left open for attack) or are built in.

4. If you're talking about using the "ipconfig/release" and "ipconfig/renew" commands on Windows, there will be equivalent commands on Linux. If your "IP reset utility" is something that Linksys supplies, you may need to use some other mechanism (eg, accessing the router from a browser) to get it to reset.

Thanks Argent............the IP reset is a Windows utility.

Not all distros are created equal. You might run into similar problems during initial setup and, with Ubuntu specifically, if you're trying to do something outside the realm of what you would typically do on a small office/home office/university lab system.



Not really. What you gain in initial setup time, you lose by having to manage all packages by hand and maintaining retroactive security measures like antispyware and antivirus software.



For best results, when trying another operating system, make it your primary OS for a month. You won't get a good impression or get a particularly authentic experience if you don't use it. Switching OSs isn't a trival task and is best suited for when you have time to deal with the task. A good first step is to check http://www.linuxalt.com/ to ensure you can replace the functionality of your current software, http://www.winehq.org/ to ensure you can run what you can't replace (odds are you will find suitable alternatives for everything if not almost everything; and pretty much any game that doesn't require PunkBuster for Windows runs in wine), and http://www.linux.org/hardware/ to get an idea if you have any hardware that is a known non-starter (increasingly rare in recent years).



I don't know if Ubuntu will set up a dual boot for you, but I imagine it would. Download should cover it, though if you want a Windows installer for a linux distro, you might try Debian, which is Ubuntu's older cousin and upstream, you can find the installer at http://www.goodbye-microsoft.com/ and it will set up a dual boot for you. If you prefer the CD method, odds are youll only need the netinst or buisness card CD (both <300 MB) and not the whole CD set.



That's the correct assumption, yes. Most drivers will come with your distro. Non-free drivers like nvidia and ATI's drivers are not legally redistributable in binary form, though there's usaully a one-liner to automatically compile, package and install the drivers (in Debian for nvidia, this is sudo m-a a-i nvidia; you will need the modules-assistant package for this to work). Depending on how recent your kernel is, you may or may not have to do the same thing for madwifi as you do for nvidia (Atheros recently opened up, so better supported drivers are being rapidly developed meaning that this is less likely as time progresses).

Generally speaking, unless your hardware vendor is being a complete dick about it and deliberately attempting to hinder development or the device is both nonstandard and obscure, the Linux kernel ships with drivers for it. You aren't stuck waiting for a vendor to come up with a driver or fix a previously released broken driver: In almost all cases, it'll either work or it won't. Almost all of what I've encountered in the last 5 years has been fully and properly supported on Linux out of the box without hassle (I can't say the same for Windows, particularly with OEM hardware which typically ships /without/ a driver disk).



It will ask you what you need to connect to your network. You can change it later from the desktop environment if needed. The network-manager package provides automatic configuration and network profiles. If you're on wireless, once you have the drivers installed, you'll be pleasantly surprised to find that using wireless on Linux is a lot easier and more pleasant than on Windows.



On popular free software, the documentation included is generally complete. In that particular situation, I would assume the lack of information means that people have found their way through that step without prompting additional to what is done by the software itself.



Given that Windows is the least network compatable OS in common use these days, you're more likely to have to reconfigure for Windows than you are Linux (I have come across routers that don't have IPv4 enabled by default before, these have to be configured from an OS with a proper implementation of whatever protocol /is/ enabled on the router to enable old-skool IPv4 support). If your router works now in Windows, it'll work in Linux. When in doubt, your Linux box will probably be able to connect to it, it can't hurt to try.



WEP and WPA does add some complexity to setup, though if you have network-manager and wpa-supplicant installed, you'll wonder why Windows makes it so hard.



Oooh, good choice, I think. If it does give you problems, IIRC, you can flash it with a replacement firmware from http://www.dd-wrt.org/ to fix it. The default firmware on linksys routers tends to be somewhat flaky under high connection counts, from my experience.



Most routers, even today, are not wireless.



PUT THE COMPRESSED AIR AWAY! Never, EVER, hit hot electronics with compressed air. If there's a hardware fault that only becomes evident when it's hot, odds are you're going to make the problem worse every time you blast hot parts with supercold air. This WILL damage electronics! Let it cool to room temperature before using compressed air.

Put it on a rack and set a fan near it to increase air flow instead, or stuff it in your mudroom instead (at least my mudroom is not heated and stays cold even in the summer).



Your router is a firewall. Software firewalls (blackice, windows firewall, zonealarm) are 100% pure snake oil, designed only to seperate the stupid from their money and time. http://samspade.org/d/firewalls.html

As of the time of this writing, since 1967, there have been approximately 12 worms or viruses for all unixes, 7 targetting Linux specifically, almost all of those were Red Hat/Fedora specific, and none are in the wild. Unix is an extremely hard target for malware writers due to the inheirent privlege seperation (you run as a normal user, not as administrator, for day to day tasks, so misbehaving software can't damage any data outside your home directory) and the fact that free software tends to be better audited (many eyeballs make bugs shallow) and updated more frequently (vulnerabilities malware uses is quickly patched). Viruses and malware are a non-issue if you keep your system up to date.



Market share has nothing to do with it, this is a purely technological limitation to the platform and development process. Security is among the foremost concerns for most users and developers of free software.



Common sense, your brain. Don't install servers you won't use or don't need, use strong passwords, make sure your root and normal passwords are both different and not the same as you use for other sites, don't install software that isn't provided by your distribution that didn't come from a source you trust, never log in as root, never use sudo when you don't need it, back up regularly and make sure the backups actually work, etc. The idea being never give yourself more access than you need so human error or misbehaving software doesn't clean you out, and have something to restore from if the worst does happen.

Actually the biggest reason that Windows is such a big target for malware isn't privilege separation or market share, it's Internet Explorer being built from the ground up around the idea that it would be really cool if you could connect to a "trusted" website and download "trusted" plugins from it and run them. Funny thing is, that's also the whole point of .NET and Silverlight. Microsoft just won't let a bad idea get away from them.

I already knew that.......I never blow any air on a hot hardware component. I actually turn off my router/modem almost daily (they both are on a separate plug strip so it's really easy) and only blow out the dust about once every other week or maybe once a month......about the same frequency as I blow out my desktop actually. And I have the router and modem in the coolest room in my house...with a small fan for the warm to hot days.

Thank you for all your information.

Another quick question that cropped up in my mind. I have a couple hundred (maybe more) textures I've made over the years I've been in SL. They are saved in a file that is within my windows partition........NTSF. Can Ubuntu (or any other Linux distro for that matter) read and open those files? Will that "Wine" program be necessary? Or do I have to remake those suckers!!!!!

Thanks again.

Peggy

Im sure that Ubuntu has NTFS file system support by now. I use FreeBSD, which is more of a server system, and even it has had NTFS support for a long time.

Thanks again Argent.

I just went to the download page to download and burn a CD so I can maybe install Ubuntu tomorrow. I reread the system requirements (which I exceed by a huge amount) but I missed a note about 64 bit systems. My CPU is a Core 2 Quad (Q6600)..........a 64 bit CPU. So, I do have a 64 bit system. The requirement I read including the note is:

"Recommended minimum requirements
Ubuntu should run reasonably well on a computer with the following minimum hardware specification. However, features such as visual effects may not run smoothly.

700 MHz x86 processor
384 MB of system memory (RAM)
8 GB of disk space
Graphics card capable of 1024x768 resolution
Sound card

A network or Internet connection

Note: All 64-bit (x86-64) PCs should be able to run Ubuntu. Use the 64-bit installation CD for a 64-bit-optimised installation. "

Just to add to my seemingly endless list of questions I got one more. As I read the note I should download the 64 bit optimised installation. My computer still only has 3 gigs of ram so there's not going to be much gain there. But, would the 64 bit version perform better than the 32 bit even though almost all software is still 32 bit? I guess I'm more curious than anything because I'm pretty sure I'm going to do the 64 bit thing anyway. Unless someone pops up with a big warning "DON"T INSTALL UBUNTU 64!!!" for some reason.

Thanks

Boy, this better be good.........LOL Downloading the ISO image now.............7 hrs 14 mins!!!

I freaking slow mirror............I picked it because it was closest to me!! UC Santa Barbara!! My tax dollars at work for me..........LOL.

Okay, I stopped that download and tossed the CD-R. Tried Walla Walla Washington.....it's slower yet!!! What's with the 26 k downloads for these mirrors? I ain't waiting no 16 hours for a 698 meg download!!

Anyone know of a faster mirror for downloading the ISO image file for Ubuntu? I'll waste one more CD then I think I'll write for a CD to be sent to me and pay the small fee.

Thanks.

It can read NTFS, and it can write to NTFS, but I wouldn't recommend the latter. NTFS isn't exactly well documented, so the only really good NTFS support comes with Windows. The flipside of the coin is Linux supports a few dozen filesystems, rather than the paltry 2 Windows supports.

You'll probably want a USB stick formatted VFAT rather than NTFS to transfer files between the two OSs.

I don't care what OS you're running, 64-bit is more trouble than it's worth if you don't have some specific niche that actually benefits substantially from it. Home desktops are not in this category. Flash and Wine don't work on 64-bit Linux, for example; the former because Adobe can't be arsed to compile for it, not enitrely sure what the deal is with wine but I recall it being one of those difficult problems to solve. The transition to 32-bit didn't exactly happen overnight, neither will this transition. Best to leave the heatseeking to the propellerheads on this one.

Okay, I just canceled that download from the Walla Walla. WA site. Started out at 26 kbps then creeped down to 9 point something and 21 more hours!! If someone does not know of site to download from that will download at a reasonable speed (like maybe fast enough to get it done in maybe 4 hours or something...hopefully less) then I'm sending off for the installation disk.

Geeze, I haven't had downloads that slow since my old dial up days..............a long time ago!!

Oh, and thanks Baloo for the tip about Ubuntu 64. That's been my thought on any Windows based system too.

If you're using FTP or HTTP to transfer anything more than ~50MB, you're doing it wrong. Name any of the 50 most common Linux distributions, and there's a very good chance that there's an official torrent for it. Don't forget to seed when you're done!



We are talking California, now. Far from being the fastest car in the garage or the sharpest tool in the shed in the grand scheme of things.

Depends on the capability of the 32-bit version.

32-bit Windows won't address *physical* memory outside the 4GB 32-bit address space, even on modern Pentium-derived processors that have the ability to map memory beyond that range.

And, heh, looks like I was right about the day they actually had the beta available.

What does "seed" mean Baloo?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTorrent_(protocol)#Operation

Basically, BitTorrent books it on downloads because you're downloading a small piece from many different machines at once from other people who have or are seeking the same file. When you leave a bittorrent active after it completes downloading, you're seeding the file to other users who can download chunks from you. It's good practice to have a share ratio of at least 1.0 (ie, you're uploading as much as you're receiving) or better yet 2.0 (you supplied twice as much to keep the torrent going as you took).

I put Linux on my system. I used Wubi, which doesn't alter your partitions. It loaded Hardy Heron at the time, I think it was 8.04. It was slightly more trouble than advertised, mainly in that I had to reboot a few more times than it seemed to claim. No big problem.

I don't recall having had to do anything special to get internet access.

In my case I got drivers from ATI because that seemed to be the best option for an x800.

Forgive me if I'm wrong on this, but it looks like Wubi's more like a workalike of Linux for Windows, not an actual implementation of a Linux distribution.

Careful, there. It's not actually a particularly efficient mechanism, and you don't want to give people the impression it is.

I've found bittorrent to usually be much slower and less reliable than direct HTTP. The advantage of bittorrent is that it distributes the cost of serving the software more widely, but unless the demand is large enough that it would overwhelm a single source it's inherent inefficiencies are a killer. For something like Ubuntu, it's perfect, but people see that and try to use it to spread some obscure indy track or specialized SL build.

Wubi is a mechanism to install an ordinary Linux distribution into a "partition" that's a [hopefully] contiguous Windows file. The only change to the distro is a disk driver that makes the file look like the whole disk to Linux.

Oh, I wasn't meaning mostly obscure crap nobody cares about, I meant fairly mainstream stuff where HTTP or FTP is clearly the wrong answer.



That seems exceedingly hairy compared to just resizing a partition and creating two more...

You mean like the second life client?

HTTP or FTP with a hierarchical caching network beats the crap out of Bittorrent. Automatically selected mirrors do too. Bittorrent doesn't win because it's efficient, it wins because it's cheap, because you don't have to pay Amazon for the caching. If you can afford the mirrors (eg, you're sourceforge) or the cache, your users will get WAY faster downloads than they will with a torrent.
Resizing a partition is pretty hairy, too. You need an awful lot of free space, you have to sit around while you defragment Microsoft's appalling file systems, and because Windows really doesn't like you playing with the partition table there IS a chance that you will end up having to reinstall Windows. And reinstalling Windows is greivously painful, because of the way application installation works.

And, well, UNIX systems are more flexible and versatile.

Wubi gives people who wouldn't otherwise try it a way to get a better Linux experience than a LiveCD does.

No. Larger and more popular, like any of the top 5 linux distros CD/DVD images. For smaller stuff (like, say, individual packages), yeah, bittorrent's not so great. apt-torrent, for example, isn't exactly useful unless you have a large number of machines that can seed each other once the first one's updated.



That's why you uninstall everything you plan on using on a daily basis from Windows, install the appropriate alternatives in Linux, and relegate Windows to emergency use only. If you're using Windows only for legacy purposes, a 25GB is overkill for Vista.



Might not be a bad way to demo it, but it does put you in a flag day situation when you decide to run with it get that NTFS layer out from under the whole system.

On the other hand, someone who is using Windows and is NOT SURE THEY ARE WILLING TO TAKE THAT STEP, giving them a way to stick their toe in the water is valuable.
Unlike Windows, transferring a running UNIX system to another disk or partition doesn't involve hacking around Microsoft's nuisance-level copy protection with deep geek skills or buying a third party cracker like "Ghost". It's supported by the OS, has been since before I started hacking UNIX in 1978.

I wasn't disagreeing, simply pointing out that I don't think starting off a system that you're going to have to change for any long-term usability is going to be a very smooth learning experience come upgrade time.



You and I could do it easily, but I'm not sure your average Linux user (not administrator) today is going to pull that one off on their own, which is why I even mentioned it.