City Slickers Group & Nova Albion Infohub Overhaul

Were you just ejected from the group? Have no fear! The City Slickers and the Nova Albion Infohub are being retooled to make the management and operation of the hub more streamlined. The City Slickers group owners have decided to restructure the group for more focused hub responsibilities and will be working with the Lindens to reconfigure the hub for a better visitor experience. There is no set timeframe for this. Updates will be posted at the hub as work progresses (and here as long as the forum remains).

I know this was sudden and that there will be a lot of questions. Please post your thoughts and comments here and we will do our best to answer them as best as possible.

Thank you,

Salazar Jack
LisaHot Juran

The reason for the sudden action was to immediately prevent all group members from placing objects and builds at the Nova Albion Infohub.

Objects that are set to the group and not shared with the group cannot be returned by group members or owners with the current land settings and it can get out of hand quickly. The Lindens end up having to remove them. The sudden group ejections were done to prevent this unmanageable group building right away. If the Lindens decide to disable building at the hub for City Slickers group members, in addition to the current build restriction on other residents, then the situation will be re-accessed. At that point we would be able to better manage the ability for group members to build at the hub via the City Slickers group roles function. If the Lindens decide to release the City Slickers group from the hub management, then I would favor restoring the group to its' previous condition.

This hub project was started years ago as an experiment between three or four City Slickers (incl. myself) and Torley Linden, who was managing the Mainland hubs at the time. I created the overall basic hub layout and build (which I would like to transfer to Governor Linden when all is said and done). What (resident) hub management there is has evolved in a very casual, unorganized and by-the-seat-of-the-pants way into the present situation that really doesn't work. What worked fine with a few folks then breaks down when all groups members can place non-returnable objects at any time anywhere at the Linden-owned hub.

Blondin Linden and I met at the Nova Albion Infohub last week and cleared some of the group-set objects as we prepare to overhaul the land and group. While we were there, we tried an experiment with the land settings.

Current Situation: The four Nova Albion Infohub parcels are owned by Governor Linden and set to the the City Slickers group. The land is not deeded to the group, the Governor still owns it. The About Land Options are set to allow group members only to build. Any City Slicker can build/place objects at the hub. Unless a group member specifically sets their object to be shared with the group it cannot be moved, edited or returned by another group member. A Linden has to be contacted to accomplish that.

My Question: Could the City Slickers group use group roles with different abilities to manage how group objects are managed at the hub?

Abilities assigned to roles can allow for building, manipulating and returning group-set and group-owned objects. I thought that if Blondin could change the About Land Options to not allow anyone to build at the hub that I could use the group roles to manage how group members build at the hub.

Results: The result of Blondin setting the land so that no one was able to build, incl. group members, was that no City Slickers (incl. the group owners) were able to build. The group abilities set to always allow building didn't work. The reason (I believe) ... the land was still owned by Governor Linden and, even though it was set to the City Slickers group, the group's roles/abilities are not recognized.

I think that in order for the group's roles/abilities to be recognized, the land would have to be deeded to/owned by the City Slickers and not by Governor Linden. I'm going to do some more experiments with land this weekend to figure out all the nuances of the current arrangement. The City Slickers group will remain as it is for now, strictly for hub management.

Options: Depending on what develops, we could create a new group just for hub management and restore the City Slickers to it's previous condition or create new roles and abilities within the City Slickers group specifically for hub management and then open the group back up to general membership.

Thanks,

Salazar

Hello Salazar, thanks for elaborating on the situation and setting up this forum. I too have been experimenting with group rights, albeit on group deeded land. I've discovered some anomalies that may or may not apply to what you are trying to accomplish.


If you give a group member the role with "always allow create objects", and then set the land to NOT allow object creation for the group, a strange thing happens. Group members have their "build" button greyed out as if they are unable to build, and scripts on objects set to the group that check for rez permissions will register failure conditions. HOWEVER, objects are allowed to be rezzed into existence from inventory, and additionally manually navigating to the viewer's "tools / create objects" does successfully bring up a usable prim rezzer menu.

The takeaway for me is that the viewer's Build button is not always authoritive, and not a good test as to whether build rights exist.

Once (and future?) CitySlicker,
-Arrehn

In my eyes the City Slicker group has always been prestigious. A group of individuals that set out to accomplish the privilege of building and managing an info hub. They succeeded in the task of making one of the most recognized places in all of SL. Most of the original members also have some of the most recognizable builds in all of SL. .

I think the best way to proceed from here is that the City Slickers remain as hub management.
Yes, the group titles can be worked in different ways and eventually begin a process of adding respected people to help enhance the hub. Rules should apply in this process and an agreement made, like a group approval is needed before setting something.

Rezzing things at the hub is most certainly a privilege and not a right. The group is there to help introduce new residents into SL and help keep the history of Nova alive.

Thanks
~Lisa~

I'm in agreement with Lisa on the point that it is difficult to solve social issues purely through technical means. Regardless of how return rights will operate, it appears helpful to have a system for the internal maintenance of a group that operates in a kind of community partnership with LL. A maintenance structure for long-term sustainability might include areas such as:

- Communication channels of various sorts, including meetings, dedicated forums, in-world notecards, etc.
- Recruitment Processes
- Participation & Behavior Expectations

https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/learninginworld/blog/2009/11/09/announcing-outopia--open-universitys-innovative-experiment-in-community

At the end of the above blurb they mention how they are organizing a self-governing body. The summary seems to be: "Founding management hand-picks from volunteers", with a possible elections model currently in brainstorming. I am sure there are other sources of inspiration to draw on as well.

Perhaps the best way is to clean up some of the zombie trash wandering around Nova Albion. They've done a good job at making NA unlivable for newbies and long-time residents alike. Gotta love how the Lindens are blind to groups of trolls bent on harassment if they also happen to own land near infohubs...

My partner and I purchased a piece of land in Miramare a few months back which we use for business and should draw more traffic to the area in the coming months.

I was wondering if we could get an update on what the plans for the HUB are, and what groups exist that we should be looking at joining/or requesting invite so we are kept in the loop of information for the area.

Thank you!!!

The City Slicker group was founded for the purpose of Hub Management. May I suggest to read this thread for the flavor of the City Slicker group.

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There are many groups derived from Nova Albion that can play a part in information and updates as to it’s future. Just ask and you can be updated or added.
For now while the discussion of the City Slicker group is on the block….anyone is free to organize a group that will further the development of Nova Albion in a positive way.
Issues come to mind that are in need of anyone’s help. See these JIRA‘s…
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-3337
and

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-2398

THX and Happy Holidays!
~Lisa~

Interesting observation about the Build button status. I have not noticed the before. I still don't fully understand groups, roles and how the many different settings/variables affect each other. But I think an important distinction must be made between setting land to a group and deeding land to a group. I think that many of a group role's abilities are dependent on whether or not the group owns the land and that it's not simply land owned by an individual that is set to the group.

There are many limitations on what the City Slickers can do at the Nova Albion Infohub since the land is owned by Governor Linden and not the group. I am not sure yet what the best solution is for the resident management of our city's infohub. I hope that there will be continued discussion in this forum and that many ideas are put forth into the conversation.

The original purpose of the City Slickers group was very broad and not specific. The original charter for the group was, "City Land Owners and Dwellers to better Nova Albion." Creating an infohub for Nova Albion was not specifically the founding purpose for the group. The group was created way before the idea of infohubs came into existence. The original purpose was to generally make Nova Albion a better place. Much later, when the opportunity presented itself for the residents of Nova Albion to take part in developing their own infohub (kicked off by Lordfly Digeridoo), very few city resident's were interested, just Caroline Apollo, Traxx Hathor, Lordfly and myself actually. Not all the city's residents were interested in being in the City Slickers nor even participating in what city-wide events we had prior to the infohub.

After the hub was built, the Lindens started sending new residents to the hub direct from Orientation Island and the city increased in population and traffic dramatically. At that point there were many more people interested in Nova Albion and in participating in the city, but they weren't necessarily land owners. A very interesting situation.

I think the best way to proceed from here is to find out what the Lindens want their infohub land to be used for, what the city land owners would like the infohub land used for and see where best our agendas overlap and the goals and benefits are mutual. Also, I think it would be good to really study the other resident-managed Linden-owned infohubs and areas and see how they are set up and run.

The City Slickers group did not start out for hub management only, but that is what it has become for the time being. Before we can proceed, if the hub is to remain resident managed, the group, land and procedures for doing so will have to change dramatically.

Thank you for posting this. I'm curious if any of the other infohubs have set up something along these lines, either by themselves or in conjunction with the Lindens? Whatever is done in Nova Albion should include input from all interested landowners in the four regions that make up Nova Albion; Miramare, Grignano, Sistiana and Barcola.

Nova Albion is a non-themed relatively free part of the Lindens' Mainland estate. If a visitor or resident is doing something against the Lindens' Community Standards or Terms of Service then the most we can do is file an Abuse Report. I don't know if being a landowner or having a concierge-level account adds any weight. I suppose being able to file a trouble ticket may help bring attention to a problem. But that's about it. Well, besides muting someone. Other than that it's just part of life in the big city. Like it or not.

And as far as the Hub goes, the City Slickers group has no powers to eject, freeze or ban people or return objects they rez or ride in. The group members (currently Lisa Hot and I only)can only rez/return their own objects, and each other's if they're set to share with the group.

p.s. It's important to note that Nova Albion is made up of two PG (Miramare & Grignano) and two Mature (Sistiana 7 Barcola) rated regions. But the entire Infoub (all four sections, one in each region) are, I believe, considered by the Lindens to be areas that must be PG at all times.

Hi Lillith, welcome to Nova Albion! I wish you the best of luck with your business in Miramare. The status of the City Slickers group and it's relationship to the Nova Albion Infohub is up in the air at the moment and the reason for this forum discussion. I stated in a recent post above that:



There were ideas and rumors floating around awhile back I heard regarding moving the hub to it's own region, like Bay City's model, instead of the current four corner region setting. But I would rather see it remain in it's current location as I really feel it helps symbolically tie the city together and I like it's central location.

As far as groups to look into, I'm not up to speed on all the Nova Albion related groups. The best place to check on the hub or City Slicker status is this thread for now. Although truly, this over-arching group forum is for Nova Albion as a whole, hence the forum name, not just the City Slickers group or the Infohub. So please feel free to carry on your own Nova Albion-related topics or other Nova Albion group-related discussions here. The few Nova Albion related groups I am aware of and belong to/created are either for specific media purposes or aren't sufficiently developed or populated enough to be of any use currently. But you may be interested in finding out more about these groups:

Nova Albion Citizens
(I would be willing to use this group to disseminate information to Nova Albion citizens inworld. Group members would be limited to current landowners. Founder: Salazar Jack)
Charter: To facilitate communication and provide an avenue to address future needs of the citizens of Nova Albion which includes the neighborhoods of Barcola, Miramare, Sistiana and Grignano.

Nova Albion News
(This is a newspaper media group. Founder: Valdora Grayson)
Charter: To provide the citizens of Nova Albion and the outlaying areas with news and information on current affairs and issues that affect the second life of all residents.

Nova Albion Preservation Society
(Founder: Enjah Mysterio)
Charter: Currently empty.

Grignano Broadcasting Corporation
(This is a television/video streaming media group. Founder: Osprey Therian)
Charter: GBC was formed to provide quality televised inworld information and entertainment to the citizens of Nova Albion and the outlying areas.

City Slickers:
(Originally created to generally better Nova Albion. Currently only used for limited management of the Nova Albion Infohub by sole members and new group owners, LisaHot Juran and Salazar Jack. Once the decisions have been made as to the future hub direction/operation, the group may continue to exist solely for hub management with new and/or additional members or be returned to it's original chartered purpose. If the latter, the full group roster who were members just prior to the recent mass ejection will be sent invitations back into the group.)

Just a note for historical accuracy...

The City Slicker group was originally founded for, "City Land Owners and Dwellers to better Nova Albion."

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But it is indeed only being used for hub management currently.

And oh yes, please feel free to create other Nova Albion-related groups. The City Slickers are not (and never were) the be all and end all of Nova Albion. Why oh why aren't there other groups competing for the opportunity to manage the Nova Albion Infohub or to promote/advance/improve Nova Albion in some way?

These are the four uses I originally set up for the four different sections of the Nova Albion Infohub:

Nova Albion Infohub - Miramare:
Official Hub Landing Point -- a good place to start when you're new to the city. Find Linden info, help and pointers here.

Nova Albion Infohub - Grignano:
City Happenings. Find out what's going on in and around the city -- art, culture, performances, special exhibits and events.

Nova Albion Infohub - Barcola:
City Directory. Research the city's history. Examine artifacts discovered by Magellan Linden. Explore the lost city ruins.

Nova Albion Infohub - Sistiana:
Activity Center. Go dumpster diving. Play a game of chess. Get the perfect shot for your profile & leave your mark on the city.

Think of a group as a corporation. Think of the owner of a group as the CEO of a corporation. The CEO makes decisions on behalf of the corporation. For example, he may decide to buy land for a new factory. He signs the purchase agreement, but it is the corporation that pays for the land and the corporation that then owns the land.

Yet, when the CEO goes home from work, he becomes Mr Smith, a private citizen who owns a house and a car. His TV belongs to him personally, not the corporation for which he works.

Sometimes, a CEO has a company car (blue) to drive. The corporation owns the car, but he can drive it home. Perhaps he has a second car (red) in the driveway that he paid for out of his own pocket. So, Mr Smith has two cars in his driveway, one blue (owned by the corporation) and one red (owned by Mr Smith personally).

Easy so far? Ok, a neighbor asks Mr. Smith, "Who bought the two cars?" Mr Smith says, "I bought them both." The neighbor then asks, "Who owns the two cars?" Mr Smith say, "Z-Corp owns the blue one and I own the red one."

Mr Smith, is, in fact, two people. He wears two hats. He is the CEO of Z-Corp and he is a private citizen. He makes two types of decisions: those for Z-Corp and those for himself personally. When he makes decisions for Z-Corp, he wears a blue hat. When he makes decisions for himself, he wears a red hat.

Now, Mr Smith (private citizen) wishes to sell his red car (owned by himself) to Z-Corp. He puts a sign in the windshield saying For Sale $1000. He then takes off his red hat and puts on his blue hat. He is now Mr Smith (CEO of Z-Corp). Mr Smith (CEO of Z-Corp) writes a corporate check for $1000 payable to Mr Smith (private citizen).

Mr Smith (CEO of Z-Corp) then takes off his blue hat and puts on his red hat. Mr Smith (citizen) accepts the cheque for $1000 and transfers ownership of the car to Z-Corp.

Mr Smith (citizen) then takes off his red hat and puts on his blue hat. Mr Smith (CEO) drives the blue car (now owned by Z-Corp) to work. When he gets home later, he will put on his red hat and deposit the cheque in the bank (into his personal account).

Alternatively, Mr Smith (citizen) could have deeded (given) the blue car to Z-Corp.

To 'deed' is to give/transfer ownership of something from an individual to a group. The trick is to remember that a resident (individual) and an owner of a group (CEO) are often the same person with different color hats.

I do not personally own any land in Miramare or Barcola. The Amphetamine group owns land in Miramare and Barcola. I own the Amphetamine group. Since I am the sole owner of the Amphetamine group, I (as CEO) can decide what to do with the land (owned by the group). In order for me to own the land personally, I (as owner of the group, as CEO) would have to sell the land (owned by the group) to myself personally (Deltango Vale). This is the reverse of deeding. The reverse of deeding is a direct sale from a group to an individual. A group owner can sell group-owned land to himself personally just as Mr Smith (CEO) could sell the blue car (owned by Z-Corp) to Mr Smith (citizen).

'Setting' is NOT the same as 'deeding'. While setting is the first step toward deeding, setting is just a form of labeling. Setting land to a group is simply a way of telling a parcel of land that group members are allowed to exercise their given permissions on that parcel. Therefore, an individual resident who owns a parcel (personally) can 'set' (label, tag, authorize) the parcel to recognize group members as being valid users of the parcel. For example, I own a house and tell my house to open the door to anyone in the Amphetamine group. I still own the house (the group does not own the house), but my friends can come in.

The land at the Infohub is currently owned by an individual named Governor Linden.

The land is not owned by the group City Slickers. The land is not owned by any group.

The land is currently 'set' to the group City Slickers.

The City Slickers group is owned by LisaHot Juran and Salazar Jack.

Blondin Linden and Brent Linden are members (but not owners) of the City Slickers group. I do not know what permissions Blondin (member) and Brent (member) have been given by the owners (Lisa and Sal).

From what I can see, Governor Linden is not a member of City Slickers.

Possible options:

1. Governor Linden joins the City Slickers group (either as an owner or a member) then deeds (gives) the land to the City Slickers group. The Land would then be owned not by Governor Linden; it would be owned by the City Slickers Group. If Governor Linden is made an owner of the group, then City Slickers would have three owners with equal power: Sal, Lisa and Governor.

2. Governor Linden sets the land for sale for L0 to either Sal or Lisa. Sal (as co-owner of City Slickers) or Lisa (as co-owner of City Slickers) buys the land for the group ('buy for group'). Remember, though, that there must be sufficient tier in the group before the purchase is made. To see if there is sufficient tier in the group, look at the Land & L$ tab of the group window and check the amount of 'Land Available'.

- more to follow as soon as I can do it

IMO, Nova Albion needs a group for its community members. Traditionally that has been the City Slickers. Should it still be or not, given the Slickers have the rights to their hub? I don't know.

Over in Bay City, we don't have any rights to our hubs, and while our Linden contact is more than willing to place stuff there for us, we don't really have much purchase beyond that. I look with some envy at our sister city to the east (that'd be Nova Albion, if I'm not being clear enough) having such a luxury at their hub, and being able to do events and decorations at their hub space.

Maybe the solution is in tiered membership, I dunno. Have a couple people serve as officers or owners (and the Linden contacts, of course), work out whatever few expectations would be required of same, then have an everyone group that is a bit more locked down on what a person can do. Can rezzing be limited to only a subset of a group? If so, do it. That's my thoughts.

Right now though, it seems overly difficult for Nova Albion residents to communicate and all that.

I will be removing my membership from the City Slickers group this weekend and discontinuing any current participation on my part with infohub development due to time constraints. I will be working with Blondin Linden and Governor Linden to transfer all objects owned by me at the Infohub to the Governor and will also be posting the list of the City Slicker group members that existed just prior to the Great Purge to this thread as a record in case it is desirable for the group to be restored to it's previous condition at some point. Please direct any City Slicker-related questions or business to the group's owner, LisaHot Juran.

Thanks,

Salazar Jack

I'm sorry time issues are taking you away from the group - I hope they don't take you away from the city as well. In a great many ways you are as much the heart of the city as the hub you created and the city would be a far poorer place without you thoughtful input and advice acting as a steadying hand on its tiller. Although I've never managed to live there, I'm sure I'm not going to be alone amongst the city's ever-enthusiastic fans and residents in thanking you for all you have done for the old girl - and when you have more time, how about a cup of joe in a certain Grignano cafe I've heard is quite good?

I'm sorry to see you go Salazar. I was looking forward to working on some of the Nova projects with one of the great originals!

I do hope the group is restored. From the limited exposure I had, it was a motivating, rewarding experience.

I too am sad to see you leave the group Sal. But having thought about it alot lately it is not like you are leaving SL. You will still be part of this great city and I do hope you return now and again to see it and the people here. The 6th anniversary is coming up and I do hope you will be here for that.
You are second only to Magellan in Nova Albion on the legendary scale.
See ya soon!
~Lisa~

Thanks for the thoughts. My thoughts will never be far from Nova Albion. It is where I was born and I will always be one of her sons. Indeed, I will continue to develop Southern Grignano, especially now that ground has finally been broken on the Nova Albion Museum of History and Antiquity and look forward to the new waterfront area that will rise there.

The troubles that have plagued our city in the past, and continue to affect it, have held my attention and I feel the need to continue to focus my efforts on those issues as well as responsibilities in Kahruvel and with the continued search and tracking of Magellan's activities.

Attn: Salazar - I'm a bit worried about the plumbing the the Brownstone East.
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Has anyone else experienced a grid border breach today?
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Where In The World Is Magellan Linden?
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I am inspired and encouraged by all those who make Nova Albion their home, or who visit and take part in the city's events. Nova Albion is more than one person. It is the avifestation of all who cross sim borders or port to reach her and be a part of her. Nova Albion is much different than it was when Magellan first laid eyes on it and it will continue to evolve and grow in the years to come. There are many many opportunities for creating and participating in events and projects throughout the city that are only limited by one's imagination, effort and drive.

I am only withdrawing my direct attention from our current infohub's activities, not the city in general. I look forward to the city's 6th anniversary and for what the rest of 2010 has in store for us.