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Case Study of Neualtenburg and RFC

Salzie Sachertorte
Wandering About
Join date: 1 Nov 2005
Posts: 84
07-14-2006 07:30
Please let me note that Jon Seattle's statement is a plank in his factions' campaign platform - not an official City statement. Elections are being held, starting tomorrow, so stay tuned for the results!

I must obtain and read the book before I can respond intelligently to your comments. Ack! Homework in the forums? :(
Jon Seattle
Registered User
Join date: 6 Mar 2006
Posts: 2
A Vision For Neufreistadt?
07-14-2006 09:55
Wow, it has been a while since I read Jane Jacobs, I will have to go a look for the book.

First I want to clarify that what we (CSDF) are proposing is not a collective enterprise, but land and market development. In effect we should be a democratic land developer while shaping the market and environment for other businesses.

I will answer your argument with two of my own:

1. While it is true that a lot of second life is metaphor, we would be nuts if we decided that Neufreistadt was actually a city. It is, in fact, a small consumer cooperative of about 36 people who join together to buy the services needed to create a small online community (and LOL a debating club). There is no reason for such a group to avoid engaging in commercial activities.

You could argue that there is still a need to separate civic functions. And I might agree if we had enough people, very active land development activities, a thriving market, and the brand recognition. But we do not.

2. I would also point out (perhaps contrary to my first point) that real life towns and land development cooperatives often engage in exactly the kind of planned development and brand promotion I describe. Often these plans involve close partnerships between pubic and private institutions.

- In places like Detroit and Milwaukee this kind of activity has been used to help revitalize inner city areas.

- There are many successful planned communities being developed. I am particularly interested in “new urbanist” communities that mix high density development, mixed income housing, and commercial space. For example Middleton Hills (see http://www.middletonhills.com/ehi/mhills/).

Note that especially in the case of land development like Middleton Hills, private organizations take on major civic as well as commercial roles, including neighborhood covenants, security, selecting tenants for commercial space that are consistent with the community's brand and mission, etc.

Having said that, I do think it is very important for Neufreistadt to go beyond just being a quiet suburban bedroom development. Neufreistadt has much more to offer Second Life society and the world. We can provide an example that shows that planned democratic SL communities can be lively and centers of thought and design. The lively market and university town and not just nice plots of land for sale.
Frank Lardner
Cultural Explorer
Join date: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 409
Planned communities -- entire countries
07-14-2006 12:15
The model of planned communities has its proponents and detractors. Ask anyone who lives near a "gated community" that is isolated from its larger community and would rather not contribute outside its gates.

Entire nations have been planned communities, based on some commonality. Israel is a good example. At the same time, the uniqueness of Israel may demonstrate how unlikely it is to succeed without some core elements binding its residents and immigrants together, yeah unto death.

Planned communities based upon commercial development have precedents, also. Consider Australia, which was founded as a colony into which the U.K. brought immigrants, many of them forcibly as convicts, with the charge to develop the land. More recently, the Arabian Gulf nation of Dubai has pushed forward in investing its oil revenues into making its nation a tourism and business ... Mecca.

The splitting of Neaualt into two may not be good news, if it means that the core organization is not growing. I've watched the budding governmental efforts of verious Gorean communities slowly peter out as splinter groups peel off. The essence of government is the ability to compromise in order to gain benefits from economies of scale and network effects. To the extent that everyone has to "be boss" and "do their own thing," those benefits may be outweighed by egoism.

Given that this is a game/recreational activity (though some forget that), its not a surprise that "individual actualization" is a top priority. If your vision of your own "individual actualization" is as a political leader of thousands of adoring citizens, this may be the wrong venue for you.

Frank
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Frank Lardner

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Jon Seattle
Registered User
Join date: 6 Mar 2006
Posts: 2
07-14-2006 12:38
From: Frank Lardner
The model of planned communities has its proponents and detractors. Ask anyone who lives near a "gated community" that is isolated from its larger community and would rather not contribute outside its gates.
Exactly. The goal is make Neufreistadt into something that is not gated community but an example that can be replicated and will grow.

From: Frank Lardner
The splitting of Neaualt into two may not be good news, if it means that the core organization is not growing. I've watched the budding governmental efforts of verious Gorean communities slowly peter out as splinter groups peel off. The essence of government is the ability to compromise in order to gain benefits from economies of scale and network effects. To the extent that everyone has to "be boss" and "do their own thing," those benefits may be outweighed by egoism.
I really do not think this applies to the current Neufreistadt. We are going quite well thank you. The fact that we have these lively debates should be seen as a sign that we are still vibrant and evolving. I really think the community lost very little with the split. Also we are not aiming at anything like the size of a nation. (Although the size of an urban neighborhood would be nice.)

From: Frank Lardner
Given that this is a game/recreational activity (though some forget that), its not a surprise that "individual actualization" is a top priority. If your vision of your own "individual actualization" is as a political leader of thousands of adoring citizens, this may be the wrong venue for you.
I sure hope that is not my vision! (laugh) But I will say that I do not think this is only a game. My guess is that Second Life is pioneering some of the technology and social convention that will soon connect the world in a way that the web has only begun to do. Shared 3D worlds are going to be important.

Personally I really do not care much for power (I am primarily a builder and creator irl), but I do care very much about the spread of democracy and democratic values in online communities. I plan to be part of those communities for a long time.
Ferren Xia
Registered User
Join date: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 77
07-18-2006 20:50
Jon Seattle wrote:

From: someone
In effect we should be a democratic land developer while shaping the market and environment for other businesses.


This embodies two of the fallacies that statists have around the market economy.

1. The state should be a participant in the market (this is the key point refuted in Jacob's book)
2. The state should intervene in the market with the object of achieving some particular outcome

Just as true science goes in unexpected directions and uncovers unanticipated results (unlike engineering which is the refinement of known processes), the market economy achieves remarkable success through not being directed or managed. From what I have read around the various Neu-factions, none of the participants really accept this approach.

Much of SL reflects a true market approach, and in that respect Neu-whatever is a retreat from that model.
Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
07-19-2006 11:46
From: Ferren Xia
Jon Seattle wrote:



This embodies two of the fallacies that statists have around the market economy.

1. The state should be a participant in the market (this is the key point refuted in Jacob's book)
2. The state should intervene in the market with the object of achieving some particular outcome

Just as true science goes in unexpected directions and uncovers unanticipated results (unlike engineering which is the refinement of known processes), the market economy achieves remarkable success through not being directed or managed. From what I have read around the various Neu-factions, none of the participants really accept this approach.

Much of SL reflects a true market approach, and in that respect Neu-whatever is a retreat from that model.


While this is true of "Neufreistadt" it is no longer true of "Neualtenburg".

Phase III of The Neualtenburg Projekt (Port Neualtenburg) rather than presenting itself as a pre-written package solution for self-government is instead a loosely organized commune which will grow and change with the market and with the size of it's population.

Having recognized the pitfalls of bureaucracy in this virtual world, Port Neualtenburg is dedicated to it's organic (rather than fabricated) growth as a community and eschews RL models of government designed for larger populations in favor of a more tribally "governed" society.
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