For the love of teaching or money? *edited to comply with T.O.S.*

Thanks for mentioning that Catty....I was under the impression that it was a volunteer position but obviously I was mistaken..

I think that people are probably just a little worried that prices for the classes will go up and up and up ..etc I feel rather sorry for the brand new resident who may possibly not be able to afford the classes. Second Life, in my opinion, has a huge learning curve and the various free classes on offer really do make a big difference to the new resident.

When I first started, I did attend classes and I tipped whatever I had... I'm all for tipping, but putting a 'minimum' amount on the tip doesn't seem to sit right with me.... If someone tipped 10L$ because that's actually all they had, then to me, that would be 'worth' a lot more..etc

I think the instructors at TUi and indeed all the other educational areas are so necessary for the new resident and I really hope that the classes will continue to be affordable for everyone...


'Pocket Pfeffer - I do it for the love of clothing and gadgets'

Wow. Talk about tl;dr. This whole thread embodies tl;dr and we're only on page two.

Where is Cliff when you need him?

I often wondered what happened to Teazers after LL stopped paying the tutors L$500 an hour (late 2006). I guess I wasn't looking. But if paying students means choosy students means no demand for those silly "how to make a flexiprim flag" courses, then thank god for that. The quality of the education might actually improve. Assuming it hasn't already.

Yes, that is what it said, but there were conditions that went with it. There was a 10L cap on classes until the instructor was allowed to teach pro level courses.

But, on the same thing that it says up there "....the best part! You make MONEY " If that is what TUi says is the best part about teaching then they are not doing it for the love of teaching.

Thanks for posting that Catty

I understand what you're saying...I think, and forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'm presuming that we didn't all just 'arrive' in SL knowing all there was to know about content creation etc. A lot of residents new and not so new would appreciate those 'silly how to make a flexiprim flag' courses.

I would never class any form of education as 'silly'.....I suppose it all depends on what you as an individual wish to learn and also regarding education and the quality thereof....complexity does not equal quality...in my humble opinion.

Yes, and under normal circumstances I would. But if you had read all of this particular thread and saw that your friend was telling me to become a teacher at TUi, a few posts ahead of me saying that I'm a teacher at TUi, then you'd have probably understood what my point was.

Cheers.
- Reghan.

Umm..i read...i saw...and i still dont see your point.

I have taught at TUi for a year now (wow!). I see teaching in Second Life as an opportunity to give back to those who taught me as I was learning during my first months as a SL resident. When I first started taking classes, TUi charged as did several other places. I camped, and *gasp* spent about $10 on lindens so that I coud learn how to use this interface.

I willingly paid for classes that I felt were worth my money. There was one teacher in particular who charged about 300L for her classes and you know what? I took every single one. I felt they were so well done that they were completely worth the expense.

When I started teaching I made the decision not to charge for my classes because I did it to give back. As I've taught more in SL, I understand why people charge (they have good reasons!) and I don't think they love teaching any less than those who do it for free.

Charging has *always* been an option at TUi. Take a minute and think about the ratio of 10L classes to free ones you've seen. Many teachers taught for free and never asked for sponsorship money.

I believe that many will continue to teach for free. Every teacher who's taught a level 1 class knows full well that new residents don't have much money...and they know they'd be fools to expect a new resident to pay for a class.

But, there are classes taught that fill more experienced residents stores or teach them skills that will allow them to have a self-supporting SL. I do not see the problem with teachers who teach those classes asking for an investment on something that will truly have a return for their students in order to get students who are serious about the subject matter.

Teachers who ask for a return on their investment of time are not asking much. They are only asking that their work be recognized as valued content added to SL- we pay for hair, clothes, land, shoes...why not pay for the skills we learn as well?

Seriously Sleven, TUi and other schools cost a lot of money to run. Think about the tier fees alone, the owner of TUi spends upwards of 500USD a month keeping it running. She receives NOTHING in return for her investment. Is it about money? If it were she'd charge teachers to teach there, or take a portion of their tips (which some schools in SL do), or charge every student to walk on the land. No, this school exists because one woman loves education so much she dedicates her time and REAL money to making it exist. She loves the possibility of what education can be in SL and helping others. Management at TUi is completely volunteer. Hundreds of hours a week goes into making that school run so smoothly- you have no idea how much work it takes because the people who run it do their jobs so well. TUi EXISTS because of the love of teaching.

Now, I want you to think about this. This change isn't about you. It really isn't about making our students pay. It's not about money. This change is to help people who spend many, many hours of their RL making sure you have a education of how to use SL Skills have the opportunity to TEACH!

Be grateful that these schools exist. Stop complaining. Write a note to First Page and let her know you appreciate the existence of TUi. It's not often you meet someone who is willing to devote what she devotes to a school with no expectation other than that people learn and are polite. If you don't want to pay for classes, I know there will be free ones. I'll be teaching them.

I'm sorry, but an hour to teach newcomers how to make things like flexiprim flags and 2-prim pimp canes, were just a complete waste of everybody's time. And lets not pretend the tutors were "teaching" things like that for anything other than the L$500 fee they got from Linden Lab at the time.

During the flexiprim flag course (mid 2006), I remember looking at the finished item sitting on the tutor's desk before he'd even arrived, and constructing it myself within about 30 seconds. I proceeded to tell the rest of the class how to do it, and several individuals left in disgust. How did I know how to do that? I'd paid my first ever visit to the Ivory Tower library about half an hour earlier (free), so I sincerely hope Teazers aren't charging newbies for that kind of information today, now that LL aren't lining their tutor's pockets. They'd learn far more advanced skills for free, if they just visited the Ivory Tower or NCI... and far quicker than they would in a class full of distracting students.

That's not to say Teazers didn't teach some quality courses because they absolutely DID. Like Photoshop classes for beginners, that imparted some pretty advanced information. And even the building of functionally useful objects like fountains (for example) that taught not only how to build and align prims, but also how to apply textures and insert (and tweak!) scripts.

It's just a shame that quality classes at Teazers were compromised by those "tutors" interested more in getting L$500 per class from LL than their students.

But this is old news. As I said. I hope things have changed now. I find it hard to believe they haven't, if students really _are_ paying for classes, actually.

I agree with you Object...regarding the fact that if people actually took the time to visit such places as the Ivory Tower they would benefit from the Knowledge contained therein. What I'm saying is that really it's all 'relative'. Others may or may not be as 'adept' at figuring things out...there are many different age groups in SL and some might not be as computer savvy as others. I could imagine my mother in SL....and I know that she probably wouldn't have a clue how to make a flexi-flag and would probably benefit from such a class.

There are quite a lot of long-time residents, for instance, who don't know how to save a texture to their hard-drive.

Anyway, my point is...(I think..lol) is that if you take a class in something that you don't know how to do, then whatever it may be....it can't be considered as 'silly' if you've learned something.

I'd actually love to do an advanced Photoshop class, but as of yet haven't found one....if you know of one...let me know...

You clearly didnt read my post if you are just replying to my last paragraph

oh for the love of god...............this is going way way too far peeps

Its simple matter of............choice.........some peeps like to spend their time teaching.others learning.

if presidents wanna short cut the learning curve and actually pay someone to teach......that again is a matter of choice. Linden gives us that choice........ there are lots of different routes to learning if someone wants to spend that time learning in game........then again thats their choice.


This is what we really talking about guys huh ?? Freedom of choice.

keep it simple and have fun

You know, what people are called, that talk about other people behind their back?

If you would know me, you would know that 95% are for free and that i do my best and spend my personal time, to help students with problems.
But i teach these for free, as in 'no money'.

Some people, like Sleven, think 'free' as in 'can't be bothered to come to classes and pay attention for 1 hour, but instead, asking in chat for class-notes'

Question 1: Real Life. What do RL students pay to get educated in their RL-schools? In general, nothing.
Question 2: A RL-student, let's call him S.H. goes to the public pinboard in the school and post the following note 'Looking for class notes for Algebra 102', what would a teacher think/do, is she reads that? Would she think 'Oh well, the class is for free, i will give him the notes' or would she think 'WTH? He can't be bothered to come to class and wants to be rewarded with notes?'
Question 3: Imagine you are a teacher, spend hours of your own playing time to prepare a class and offer classes for no money, and then someone comes with no appreciation of your spent time (and, yes, money) and just want to grab the notes?

Yes, this post is full of spite and polemic, but i feel a sore liquid raising in my throat, when i read, that people like Sleven play 'poor little me' and try to rally people under completly wrong premises, for his cause.

Patricia Schnyder - Teaching classes and helping for no money for polite people who can be bothered to come to classes.

P.S.: YES! For the love of teaching! - But if you don't get reloved for teaching ....

I'm saddened by this thread.

The problem is, I agree with all of you.

I agree with Antec and Sleven...and I put my money where my mouth is. I volunteer time to teach as an SL Mentor. I also teach a weekly class at GQ Start.

Do I get paid for this? Yes, but darn little. I get L$100 per class from GQ Start, plus student tips. Since it's a newbie class, the tips are generally very small. And I get paid zero for mentoring. (GQ Start, by the way, gets its funding from sponsors, rather than students. Not a better business model, just a different one.)

Do I care? Well, yeah. I would like to be better compensated for the time I spend preparing a class, and updating it, and teaching it. A person's time and knowledge ought to be worth something. I would probably spend more time teaching, if I didn't have to devote time to other SL pursuits that were better at paying the SL bills.

Will I stop, or look for ways to get more money out of teaching? Nope. The money is secondary. As others have said, SL is a voluntary activity, something most of us do with our free time. If teaching wasn't fun, I wouldn't do it. I enjoy sharing knowledge. I love it when someone goes, "Wow! I get it!" I'm a teacher; that's what I am, who I am. I can't NOT be a teacher, whether I am paid or not.

I've taken free classes, and tipped generously when they taught me something new. I haven't attended for-fee classes, but if one comes up on my radar that's offering something I need, I certainly will.

I don't begrudge TUi, or any school, making money. Nobody who puts the time and effort into creating and running a school ought to have to do so out of pocket. There's nothing wrong with selling knowledge for money, and TANSTAAFL is a fact of life. I wish TUi and its faculty and staff all the best. But I do think that Sleven has a point...your motto ought to be congruent with your policies. Maybe you should change it to "Offering the Best Classes in Second Life" or "More Learning for Your Linden", or something.

While I agree with much of what you wrote, this part just ain't so. RL students, or their parents, pay for every bit of schooling they get. In taxes, for "free" public schools. In tuition, books, and fees for private schools and colleges.

I'm going to jump in and throw my 2 lindens in...

Yes these changes came out of left field, but that was the decision of First Page and we have to accept that.

I for one (and while I can't speak for my fellow teachers at TUi - but I assume they do the same) charge based on the level and what goes into the class. If it is basic level one, I know my class is going to be filled with newer accounts who maybe do not have $10 lindens (I remember when I first began it was hard to get money). But as the levels get higher there is more involved.

If we want to use a texture we have to get permission from the creator. No permission.. no use. Then we have to make our own. If we are going to use a slide show we have to upload numerous textures to make your class experience the best it can be.

If you have been to TUi's lobby.. you will notice that we have on campus and off campus classrooms so that we can offer a huge amount of classes in a specific block of time... If you have not noticed... the off campus classrooms are a teacher's owned land. Land=tier which costs money..

Up until now we had sponsors which covered these costs, therefore we did not charge the 10 lindens. What you are assuming is that a basic class is going to cost in the hundreds of lindens... This is not the case... I can forsee it maybe going up 10 or 20 lindens if the teacher decides to charge at all (which I can see a student teacher class costing since us teachers can seek individual sponsoring).

We also have the edumart which usually covers the rental space to place it and some of the creation costs.

So to close off this kind rant...

When you local grocer increases their prices becuase their costs increase, do you go ranting and raving to everyone who will listen... No, most people either bite the bullet or find another grocer.

We are not out to take your money, if we were in it for the money we would sell our builds in a store for much more. We actually want you to come and learn how to build interesting items beyond the basics that NCI teaches (they are a godsend... wish I heard of them when I started) rather than buying it for atleast 10x the price.

I have lost track of the disscussion here.

Is it because our slogan is "We do it for the love of teaching"?

Interesting enough I forget when it became a rule that you do things 'free' if you love what you do.

Or is it an opportunity for people to bash TUi and it's teachers?

Do people really feel so strongly they are willing to take up time an energy "judging people freedom of choice"?

Really, I think we all just need to be thankful that people choose to spend their time creating a better SL for all, and enjoy their game in doing so.

OK, I have to throw in my 2 Lindens too:

1st, I love TUi. Every class I've taken was great, even though they may have been simple. I went because I wasn't sure how to do something.

2nd, I thought about beaing an instructor and found out it would be L$4000 plus tons of time to get trained. I'd love to give back, but not that much...

3rd, someon'e math is off. L$250 = $1 USD, so L$25 = 10 cents. L$10 = 4 cents.

I have never heard of Ivory Tower or the other places, and I've been too busy to spend much time on education lately, but the education I'd need now would be a lot more advanced than most of the stuff TUi has to offer.

Pocket, I'd love to see a Photoshop class. Especially on vector tools I need to make some cool clothing textures!

It is sad to see how many people are going to the banner of Sleven.

I don't give him the class materials and notes, because he wasn't in my class (a free one [free, as in no money]) and he complains in the open group-chat.

For everybody: No money was involved in the first place. Sleven invented the money-part and you are now attacking us TUi teachers, forcing us into a defensive stance.

If I wasn't pointed to this thread by someone who stumbled upon this thread by accident, i wouldn't know of it.
Do you really want to fight for someone, who talks about somebody behind their backs?

Strange, that Sleven was a Student Teacher, but he left the program before he graduated. Perhaps his 'Love for teaching' was not big enough?

But let's talk about money:
- The TUi-Sim is making losses, the owner of TUi has to put more real cash into it, than comes back. Real cash, real time

When i am going to quit this job, it will be out of sheer frustration. Frustration about being treated like a door mat, like a teacher NPC. Some people do not show appreciation, no love back. And every time people like Sleven or his cronies attack me, because he doesn't get hand-feeded, is a coffin in the nail of my teacher-career. I am a human, not a machine.

Check your facts before you talk. I was not the one that asked for class notes. I was working on my own build on my own land when the TUi group chat popped up on my screen with a staff member (dont remember the name) said something along the lines of "If you give out class notes without the teachers permission you can be expelled from TUi". I then, in that same chat, told anyone that wanted to learn that I have lots of different notecards full of info on doing many different things in SL. I told them to IM me if they wanted notes.

Behind your backs? Thank First Page for that. She asked me to post this on the TUi forum. And I did. Then, she removed it herself. After she did that I posted it here and on the myspace forums. Right after I posted that I went back into the group chat and posted a link to both of them. That is not behind anyones back. I did everything in my power, aside from buying superbowl commercial time to notify everyone of this thread.

As for me being a student teacher and leaving, You are right. I was a student teacher. And I did leave before I reached the teacher level. That was not because I lack the love of teaching. That is because of the amount of time that it took to become a teacher. I had other things that I was working on at the time. Including my own SL business. I could not have finished the required work before the deadline came that I had to have it done by. So, instead I left and went to a sandbox and dropped signs saying that I was there to help anyone that needed it.

I missed this paragraph in my last post. The issue is not the fact that I am not getting hand-fed info. If you have read the rest of my posts you would have realized that I teach people. I am not the one that is asking for the information. I am the one giving it.

With that said, in the group that I have created (Skidz Isle Mentors) we promote the free exchange of information between each other. We are there to help each other learn and teach.

That post was perfect. It embodied everything that I am trying to get across. The issue is not the fact that they are charging. It is the fact that their motto does not fit that business model.

Thank you

Well there ya go. I just opened the TUi Neophytes group and IM'd every single person in the list with
"It has come to my attention that some of the TUi staff think I am talking about them behind their backs. So, I opened the staff group and am IM'ing each of you to send you a link to the forum. If you have already seen the forum sorry for the IM http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=248227&page=3&pp=15"

So, im pretty sure it should be right in front of you now.

I'm not quite sure the purpose of this thread, other than to give attention to somebody who is seeking it. I don't think that is worth everybodies time here..

Ultimately any group or organization in SL will set it's rules as it sees fit. Clubs, Associations, Schools, or anything else can decide to do things for free or charge money. They can setup land to allow people to buy an access pass.. setup restrictions for groups, or allow open access to all.

Some would say a perfect world would make everything available to everybody for free. I'm not sure of that. There is a lot of effort to protect content creators rights, most visibly with images/textures but in a general sense as well. I'm not sure why a teacher who creates a class is considered less of a creator than a texture creator? As has been pointed out creating effective and high quality classes takes a lot of time and effort. At TUi specifically there are reviews before a class is even taught to ensure it's a good quality class, though many classes all around SL are certainly high quality.

So if TUi or any school decides to charge for a class, isn't that the right of a content creator? Do we rail and scream at texture stores to give up their textures? Call out animation stores for free animations? Does anybody really think that these people hate and despise the content that they create? Of course not.. they enjoy doing what they are doing.

With teaching it's a two part process, at a minimum. Creating the content.. the lecture notes.. supplies.. scripts.. anything else necessary for a given class, including of course, creating the project or topic in the first place. The second part is the additional time to teach this to a group of people. That adds up to a good bit of time investment.

Again in a perfect world would this all be free? Of course! However I have a feeling if a teacher walked into any store in SL and asked "Hey.. I teach so can you give me your products free..", I don't think the response would be what they might hope.

Ultimately SL is a large very flat market. The students... consumers.. users.. all decide what they wish to do. If there is a choice between two classes and there is a cost difference, the person will decide if that cost difference is worth it. A teacher who lists classes as too expensive is just as unlikely to have a student, as a store is that sells products for well over the going rates. This is something that anybody selling something.. goods or services, as in the case of education.. has to decide for themselves.

Endless debating and harassing, as is going on here, is at best a waste of time.

Im sorry to see that you find this entire thread a waste of time. Yet, you still decide to post your opinion on the topic. If you read the thread you will see that the issue is not the fact that charging can and will occur. The issue is that charging goes against TUi's motto and what the students of TUi were lead to believe.

A quick note of clarification. Not all TUi teachers will charge. The option has only become available. Many will continue to teach for free as they always have. There will still be free classes at TUi and many teachers (Myself included) have said that they'll teach for free. The only change to policy was that the teachers were given the option to charge if they chose to. Hopefully no one has gotten the impression that all classes will be charged.