GOV (Gathering of Volunteers) log 22 January 2006

Tateru Nino: Okay, folks. Pipe down and listen up. The first two items on the agenda were provided on condition of anonymity.
Tateru Nino: Item 1: Nicole Linden's 1 year rez-day was yesterday.
Garnet Psaltery: Yay
doug Donovan: YAY!
Tateru Nino: Take a moment over the next day or so to wish her a happy rezday and thank her for the nice things she does for us.
Tateru Nino: I wanted to be telling you this yesterday, but I didn't have a chance.
Tateru Nino: Now. Item 2, from the same anonymous submitter: "Worship Tesla Linden or die"
Tateru Nino: I think there's a lesson there for us all.
Tateru Nino: Tesla's one of our UK liaisons.
Lethe Naumova: tesla coils are pretty neat
doug Donovan: yeah they are
Fairge Kinsella: Oh, I know Tesla, she's neat1
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi and sorry.... :)
Tateru Nino: Hi, Gwyn. It's okay.
Sarg Bjornson: We need a NPC Linden
Lo Jacobs: Hey Gwyn
Ginny Gremlin: NPC?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, NPC Linden, that would be *fun*
Lethe Naumova: we already have (Insert Linden Here)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: huh....
doug Donovan: no its gotta be real ...and me
Lethe Naumova: Brian Linden =D
Tateru Nino: Okay. Pipe down again, folks. Now we get to the meatier bits :)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sarg Bjornson: Yum, meat!
Tateru Nino: Okay. The new communications network is live on Help Island - most of you know this. Remember part of this meeting is for the logs so that other people know too.
Tateru Nino: The new HUD communication attachments cover the whole island, and up to about 100 metres above it. Their range is only 100 metres outside the island, and they do not work in noscript land.
Tateru Nino: If you don't have a version 2 unit, IM me and you'll get one.
Blueman Steele: or 2.1 with the pretty pic!
Ginny Gremlin checks version
Salty Dmytryk: haha\
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pretty pic?!
Tateru Nino: Thanks to LO for making a prettier one, as well. I've got pretty version 2.0 units.
Lo Jacobs: lol
Sarg Bjornson: Hand them over! lol
Sarg Bjornson: How sweet
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah nice :)
Lo Jacobs: I'll be making t-shirts too .. just for fun
Tateru Nino: Now, a couple of systems can inject messages into the communications net on the island. One is a detector that detects newbies as they arrive.
Fairge Kinsella whispers Green ones...
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is so cool, Tateru! Excellent idea!!!
Lo Jacobs: Very
Tateru Nino: Item 4: New HI operation.
doug Donovan: tells you that they take a notecard there too cool
Tateru Nino: Jeska wants everyone to know that newbies can now TP to HI from the OIs.
Tateru Nino: They appear in the middle of the greeter hub. The large white structure in the middle.
Sarg Bjornson: That's cool
Garnet Psaltery: When do we get the exit sign above that?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Finally it gets puts to good use, finally.
Ginny Gremlin: I've met a couple of them there
Tateru Nino: Some will still walk or fly from OI11 or OI10.
Fairge Kinsella: It's a good place to firsh for new people, I keep getting mobbed there by accident.
Blueman Steele: that hub is a blinding white.. I vote we paint it
Tateru Nino: The greeter hub will become active in 1-2 weeks. More testing is required.
Lo Jacobs: I like the white
Ginny Gremlin: I'm with Blueman
Ginny Gremlin: paint it
doug Donovan: paint it blue
Blueman Steele: I'd like to sit there .. wait for noobs
Fairge Kinsella: I have no opinion on the colour,but I love the new stairs fom the hub to the ground.
Lo Jacobs: We could ask for a soothing beige
Blueman Steele: I see a red hub and I want to paint it black
Lo Jacobs: Hehe
Tateru Nino: As a side note...three OI's are operating right now. OI11 and OI10 attached to HI, and OI2 in the ocean west of ahern.
doug Donovan: lol
Salty Dmytryk: can we agree on taupe?
Garnet Psaltery: just not watermelon colours please
Fairge Kinsella: WHy is OI2 operating?
Sarg Bjornson: OI12 without bridge, right?
Tateru Nino: You can teleport to any of the OI's whether or not they are operational at the present time.
Tateru Nino: Since Newbies can TP to HI, there's no need for a land-bridge now.
Blueman Steele: Torely is a Linden now. she may outrank us
doug Donovan: are they all identical?
Tateru Nino: Very very similar. I don't think they are /quite/ identical.
Blueman Steele: wonder if we will lose the other land bridges
Tateru Nino: OI4(not switched on) is rather different.
Sarg Bjornson: The other landbridges should go
Sarg Bjornson: They draw people to the sandbox
Garnet Psaltery: I don;t see why they can't turn the unconnected ones round so they can build bridges from those as well
Fairge Kinsella: Yes, I think the landbridges are great....
Tateru Nino: A new OI is being designed now. When it is ready, all the existing OIs will be replaced.
Ginny Gremlin: oh boy!
doug Donovan: omg
Lo Jacobs: Cool
Salty Dmytryk: i say keep the bridges
Fairge Kinsella: If gives the new person a sense of spacital location, TPinf is a bit dislocating
Sarg Bjornson: The bridge from the Northern sandbox is a clear invitation for all news to go to the sandbox
Ginny Gremlin: hehe
Ginny Gremlin: just giggling
Tateru Nino: Ah.
Blueman Steele: I see then TP then walk back tothe temple
Tateru Nino: Indeed.
Garnet Psaltery: yes some like to revisit OI
Salty Dmytryk: the teleport thing is new for newbs, keep the bridges
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Lo Jacobs: Hey Moon
Sarg Bjornson: Keep the bridges, but make them symmetrical!
Moon Adamant: hello all :)
Ginny Gremlin: good point Salty
Garnet Psaltery: Hello Moon
Tateru Nino: You'll also notice that we've build a number of informational and educational stations around the island. If you've got an idea for one, let me know.
Blueman Steele: make the palce more asemetrical.. that 4 spokes hub gets me lost
Garnet Psaltery: There's always something new on HI :o)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Question: since the Lindens are redoing the OIs... are they taking input from us?
Moon Adamant: hmmmm make the roof on the hub phantom? :)
Blueman Steele: the how to greif kiosk was shut down since ti got greifed too often
Ginny Gremlin: that is a good one Moon
doug Donovan: yeah the roof is no fun
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or no-fly zone
Ginny Gremlin: I'm forever bashing my head
Tateru Nino: If you've got an idea for the new OIs, now is a good time to email [email=jeska@lindenlab.com]jeska@lindenlab.com[/email]
Garnet Psaltery: me too
Blueman Steele: what if we raise the roof?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right....
Garnet Psaltery: at least make it a bit transparent
Fairge Kinsella: Definitely, with the phantom. Very embarassing after saying goodbye to helpees, and then banging head loudly.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes Fairge.
Garnet Psaltery: then you can see all round
Ginny Gremlin: and all them stars!
Blueman Steele: and with the lost feugo items.. the room.. thre roof is of fire
Moon Adamant accepted your inventory offer.
Sarg Bjornson: Blue needs some sleep badly lol
Moon Adamant: ty Tat :)
Salty Dmytryk: he's speakinng spanglish!
Blueman Steele: WEE DON'T NEED NO WATER! *FALLS asleep fro 30 seconds
Gwyneth Llewelyn: OléSarg Bjornson: lol
Fairge Kinsella: It would be most useful if the volunteer teams could have the permissions to delete items that have been discarded in ackward places.
Sarg Bjornson: Aha, now we come to the really meat part
Tateru Nino: I believe that's planned, Fairge.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, fairge, but that would mean "officer status"...
Ginny Gremlin: good
Tateru Nino: Alright. Now I've got something I'm grumpy about that I was asked to bring up.
Tateru Nino: It's about a welcoming environment. Mostly, we are.
Fairge Kinsella: Is it any better if I propse it wiht the correct spelling of awkward?
Tateru Nino: When a new entry arrives on HI, we - all of us - are SL insofar as they are concerned. We are all the society they see. The stuff we have is the world.
Tateru Nino: They decide whether to move on to the mainland, or quit first based on us.
Tateru Nino: We're out there representing LL, and representing all of SL too.
Tateru Nino: That doesn't mean we can't be a whole bunch of fun.
Lo Jacobs: :D
Tateru Nino: Several times this week, we've had volunteers tear verbal strips off a newbie. Not good.
Ginny Gremlin: what?
Lo Jacobs: o.O
Garnet Psaltery: Wow that's bad
doug Donovan: not good
Ginny Gremlin: off newbies?
Tateru Nino: I'm not going to name names.
Sarg Bjornson: I must confess I snapped off once... Out of HI though
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh? What?!
Salty Dmytryk: salty thinks back. um, no.
Moon Adamant: uh tear verbal strips? sorry?
Tateru Nino: Harsh. Antagonistic.
Tateru Nino: Angry. Perhaps insulting.
Moon Adamant: ah,kk
Salty Dmytryk: wow
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Huh.
doug Donovan: dang
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's really out of line.
Tateru Nino: If the newbie is doing something that warrants an AR. By all means ask them to stop. If they don't, file an AR.
Ginny Gremlin: what were the newbies doing that made the mentors react this way?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed. Stick to procedures, not go down to that person's level :(
Tateru Nino: If there's an ongoing problem with their behaviour, call a liaison. But always file the AR.
Tateru Nino: The new kids don't mind if we blow our cool a little at people who are upsetting them....but not when we blow our cool at /them/
doug Donovan: no doubt
Salty Dmytryk: curious as to whom that was, but will let drop ;)
Tateru Nino: If someone is - for example - violating a trademark /do/ AR that. If it's a copyright, then you have a choice as a resident to report it to the copyright holder...or not to. I don't think it matters which, except between you and your own ethics.
doug Donovan: ok it was me...not.
Tateru Nino: Don't get abusive at a newbie for things like that.
Lo Jacobs: Oh
Ginny Gremlin: not for something like that
Tateru Nino: It's not good for them, or for any other newbie who might be listening.
Sarg Bjornson: Uhmmm... Someone INSULTED a newbie for copyright issues?????
Lo Jacobs thinks she knows what this was about
Ginny Gremlin: just point out he/she can get in trouble for it
Tateru Nino: I'm not saying that was what happened. Right now, we're in hypothetical example land
Tateru Nino: My main point here is projecting that welcoming environment. It's not easy sometimes, I know. But let's try to be inclusive rather than exclusive.
Blueman Steele: as a non hyothetical example.. I gave Ms. Mario a card and a freindly reminder,
Tateru Nino: I did the same with someone called Superman who wanted a large letter S for his chest.
Fairge Kinsella: Fair enough absuse reporting a new person when teh behaviour warrents it. But has Jeska given any guidnace on how to deal with mentors who are misbehaving?
Ginny Gremlin: mentors misbehaving?
Ginny Gremlin: ugh!
Tateru Nino: If you see a mentor misbehaving, AR them like you would anyone else. Include the chat-log. It's not for us to decide how the volunteers are disciplined. Only to report it when something happens that we think may warrant it.
Lethe Naumova: I wouldn't characerize anything I've seen as misbehaving, just...a bit over the line
Sarg Bjornson: Oh, I have also seen mentors quarreling with each other
Sarg Bjornson: I think that enters in this same category :)
Lethe Naumova: that needs to go into IMs
Lethe Naumova: or the communicators
doug Donovan: if im not mistaken, you can report a linden if you feel theyre out of line
Tateru Nino: An AR doesn't mean that someone will be immediately warned, or suspended or kicked out of the corps. But it may help establish an ongoing pattern of misbehaviour.
Ginny Gremlin: I am really hesitant at reporting fellow mentors
Tateru Nino: We all feel strongly about what we do, and sometimes we let our passions run away with us.
Tateru Nino: Sometimes a friendly Linden nudge is all we need.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I guess so.
Tateru Nino: We're not perfect, my dears.
Tateru Nino: None of us.
Tateru Nino: Now. Anyone with ideas about how we can be more welcoming? In turns please. Let each person speak until they are done.
Felix Uritsky waves to Fairge :-)
Felix Uritsky accepted your inventory offer.
Salty Dmytryk: can I make an announcement?
Lo Jacobs: I've got to sign off or I'm going to fall off my chair
Lo Jacobs: I'm sorry
Blueman Steele: Saying hello to noobs as the pass...
Tateru Nino sees a lot of typing.
Lethe Naumova: what's the consensus on mentor avs with weapons?
Lo Jacobs: Good night folks, will have to read the log later on
Tateru Nino will post the logs.
Sarg Bjornson: Byes Lo!
Tateru Nino: Salty first.
Moon Adamant: night Lo, sleep well :)
Salty Dmytryk: against weapons
doug Donovan: bye lo
Sarg Bjornson: Yeah, I won't wear my weapons
Salty Dmytryk: ok, thanks tat
Tateru Nino: Then we'll get back to weapons.
Salty Dmytryk: i am currently building the SL YOuth Hostel]
Felix Uritsky: LOL
Moon Adamant: lol
Salty Dmytryk: a space for promising newbs
Salty Dmytryk: to figure out how to get into sl
Blueman Steele: oh thought he said youth hostile.. like .. of coruse
Tateru Nino: Pff.
Salty Dmytryk: haha, tahn ks blue
Salty Dmytryk: anyhow
Felix Uritsky: I was thinking of the movie Hostel :-P
Sarg Bjornson: I don't understand
Salty Dmytryk: i was wanting a space for promising nebies
Salty Dmytryk: newbies
Salty Dmytryk: to get on thier feet
Salty Dmytryk: so they can find first land
Sarg Bjornson: Like the Shelter, but for promising people?
Salty Dmytryk: and reserve creative newbs for sl
Tateru Nino: Or more like the Friendly House?
Salty Dmytryk: yeah, sort of
Salty Dmytryk: not elite
Salty Dmytryk: but promising
Blueman Steele: a "your are getting too old of HI hosue"
Sarg Bjornson: Isn't it a little biased against stupid or incompetent newbies?
Salty Dmytryk: kid of like that yeah
Salty Dmytryk: no, not realy
Laroderr Dulce accepted your inventory offer.
Salty Dmytryk: just somewhere you think people who have skills might be able top be retained
Tateru Nino: Some of the ones who stay awhile aren't fast learners.
Salty Dmytryk: like building, scripting
Salty Dmytryk: but have a skill
Sarg Bjornson: I think it is a good idea, but will need heavy defining
Salty Dmytryk: it might
Salty Dmytryk: i haven't fleshed it out yet
Sarg Bjornson: Ah, cool :)
Blueman Steele: what is not experessly prohibited is mandatory
Salty Dmytryk: i just want to stem the brain-drain
Tateru Nino: When do you expect it to be ready, Salty?
Salty Dmytryk: so let's foster the newbs who take to this
Salty Dmytryk: in about a week
Salty Dmytryk: i have 8 units
Salty Dmytryk: in a nice house
Salty Dmytryk: communal atmosphere
Salty Dmytryk: nothing more to say till it's doner
Salty Dmytryk: done
Tateru Nino: Okay then.
Fairge Kinsella: I have a suggestion/question/thing
Tateru Nino: About Salty's thing?
Fairge Kinsella: WHoops, no sorry, chat lag... About a new thing.
doug Donovan: brb one sec :)
Tateru Nino: Okay. After the next item then.
Tateru Nino: Weapons - LL allow us to display and even fire them on HI, for demonstration purposes. I don't have a problem with that myself, as long as it's done with some circumspection.
Tateru Nino: Lethe? Your take?
Tateru Nino: (you brought up the topic, after all)
doug Donovan: back :)
Ginny Gremlin: wb
doug Donovan: ty
Laroderr Dulce: wb
Moon Adamant: wb :)
doug Donovan: :D
Lethe Naumova: I've worn a gun before, and had nothing but positive responses to the av that it was a part of. The gun itself doesn't have any real weapon scripts in it, and I always keep it down. I /still/ feel just a touch off about it though, so I wanted some
Lethe Naumova: outside thought
doug Donovan: gwyneth is sleeping!
Tateru Nino: Gwyn's just concentrating very hard.
Sarg Bjornson: I agree with Lethe, same happens with my guns
Salty Dmytryk: i'd like to say somethin g to that
Moon Adamant: indeed she is, lol
Ginny Gremlin: I don't like the idea of a gun that will shoot in the hands of a newbie
Laroderr Dulce: agree
doug Donovan: i agree
Salty Dmytryk: a lot of people come to SL thinking this a WoW thing
Tateru Nino: I don't give out guns on HI. I greatly prefer if other people do not either. I cannot insist, of course.
doug Donovan: a noob had an airpland last night and it was not pretty
Sarg Bjornson: No, not give out, just wearing them
Salty Dmytryk: i generally try tom turn them off from combat
Salty Dmytryk: turn
Felix Uritsky: I don't think it's really a problem, as long as people don't feel threatened. My main av (this one) has a non-functional holstered pistol as part of the av, and no one's even noticed
Lethe Naumova: as it isn't scripted for anything besides poses, I would probably give that weapon to a newbie if asked
Ginny Gremlin: if they see them, they will want them
Blueman Steele: or a t least turn them to the comab sims
Lethe Naumova: but I haven't been asked, so it's a non-issue so far
Salty Dmytryk: i personally think weapons should be a non-issue in HI
Moon Adamant: i don't hand out guns - i have none. When someone asks me for a gun i answer that exactly - and that generally leads the talk into the area of 'well, what else to do here, then?' - i find it positive
doug Donovan: using weapons isnt essential to the sl experience so we dont need to teach it there
Stan Pomeray: some people do come to SL specifically looking for PvP areas though. I've been asked.
Lethe Naumova: neither is building though, essential I mean
doug Donovan: just like we dont show sex balls to ppl...theyll find that on thier own
Tateru Nino: Combat is a part of SL. It's a small part, admittedly. If someone comes and wants to spend all their time in a combat sim with a boomstick...it doesn't bother me.
Salty Dmytryk: true doug
doug Donovan: building is something that can bring money to ppl
Laroderr Dulce: ya
Tateru Nino: As long as they don't start shooting on HI.
Ginny Gremlin: building is a positive skill
Felix Uritsky: I've had newbies ask for guns too, I usually give them a lengthy explanation of weapons etiquette in SL, then a landmark to the combat areas, and a couple freebie pistols
Ginny Gremlin: learning how to shoot people is not
Salty Dmytryk: i tend to demonstrate creativity
doug Donovan: speaking of building and stuff...
Tateru Nino: Just weapons for the moment. I've got a queue of topics building up already.
doug Donovan: why not have expanded areas where we teach scripting, building, texturing etc?
Tateru Nino: When we're done with weapons, it's Fairge. Then Sarg.
Salty Dmytryk: ok, shoot
Laroderr Dulce: brb afk
Tateru Nino: Then doug.
Stan Pomeray: The two people who asked me about combat were just not interested in anything else you can do in SL, nor were they interested in making money. Just shooting :o)
doug Donovan: sorry...went outa line
Salty Dmytryk: i wouls steer them towards WoW
Moon Adamant: my feeling here is that *we* are not hmmm specialist in everything, I am surely no expert in weapons :)
Felix Uritsky: SL is a diverse place, and everyone comes in with different expectations. Some people expect combat, so once they get that out of their system, they're likely to explore the other aspects of the world
Stan Pomeray: Yes, they already have tried/were playing WoW, I guess they just wanted to try SL too.
Tateru Nino: Guns, like sex are a valid SL experience, although I think it would get dull if not mixed with other activities. But that's just me. I've never been to a combat sim.
Salty Dmytryk: no, i get your point, it is just that WoW is made for that. sl isn't
Lethe Naumova: I would suggest steering combat oriented newbies toward the scripted combat games, like the one at braniacs
Ginny Gremlin: I agree with that too Lethe
Sarg Bjornson: Yeah
Laroderr Dulce: hmm sounds good to me
Moon Adamant: agree Lethe, that's generally what i do - or send them to Jessie or Rausch
Lethe Naumova: rausch is fun, but better to show them that fun can mean no push scripts too
Tateru Nino looks at the clock. Alright. Time to close the topic of weapons. Put it on the agenda for next week if you want it discussed again.
Lethe Naumova: I think it's handed well enough
Tateru Nino: Fairge? You're up.
Lethe Naumova: thank you all
Fairge Kinsella: OK... I think the old demo cars on HI were quite compelling, even though we had to always explain how to copy them, so you could drive them. The free vehicles in the box don't have the same visual impact. I think.
Fairge Kinsella: I would like to have a vehicle info point: click on the car and it gives you a copy + note card about driving, which you can rez and drive, and when you get out of it, the car poofs...
Salty Dmytryk: shaddap kitty
Fairge Kinsella: Does anyone have any thoughts? Any reason why it could be a problem? I'm not a very good vehicle coder, I'd appreciate any comments, suggestions, or help. <grin>
Felix Uritsky: I think that'd be a good idea, though I'm not sure how to do it either
Gwyneth Llewelyn: grr sorry.
Sarg Bjornson: Buenas noches
Ginny Gremlin: nite Blue
Lethe Naumova: but adding a parking lot to the side of the shop would be pretty neat
Ginny Gremlin: yes
Salty Dmytryk: for my chopper
doug Donovan: heh yeah
Sarg Bjornson: I like that!
Ginny Gremlin: those cars were just the thing for the newbies
Lethe Naumova: have it have a bike rack too =)
Ginny Gremlin: very few passed them by
Moon Adamant: hmmm, can't we just fix a better design for the freebie vehicles? i agree they're a bit plywoodey :)
Sarg Bjornson: Yeah lol
Tateru Nino: I would like to see a set of self-cleaning demo vehicles, myself. Hop in one, and drive away. A new one rezzes in it's place. The old one goes about a minutes after the newbie leaves it.
Fairge Kinsella: Well problem one was the getting a copy, they just found that very confusing...
Felix Uritsky: I'm working on redesigning the one I had out there :-P
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees . there are many which are so nicer
Ginny Gremlin: I love that idea
Fairge Kinsella: Oh, that would be nice....
Tateru Nino: Anyone want to volunteer to implement it?
Sarg Bjornson: I fully support that idea Tat, all vehicles in my rides are self-deleteable
Stan Pomeray: Well, they'll need to learn about getting copies anyway
Ginny Gremlin: One day I went to HI and there were 5 abandoned cars
Fairge Kinsella: I think I could do that, if I have a full modify car. But that doesn't solve problem 2, the cars littered all over the place.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Auto-return after a few hours?
doug Donovan: make them die after an hour

Lethe Naumova: if they delete after a minute or two out of them =)
Felix Uritsky: I agree with Stan, they need to learn how to copy, and having free-to-copy vehicles out is a good way to figure that out
Ginny Gremlin: good idea Doug
Sarg Bjornson: Self-deleting vehicles don't litter
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Salty Dmytryk: smart
Tateru Nino: Autoreturn doesn't seem to be an option on the majority of HI right now. There seem to be reasons, but I'm not sure what they are.
Ginny Gremlin: we are trying to get the newbies excited about having joined
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh? Hmm. Grr.
Ginny Gremlin: they love the cars
Sarg Bjornson: We need a racing track lol
Sarg Bjornson: If we had the space...
Tateru Nino: Possibly an airborne one.
Sarg Bjornson: I can set that up
Lethe Naumova: as can I
Sarg Bjornson: I have one for go-karts
Felix Uritsky: Lots of people like cars, it's too bad most of SL is rather unfriendly to vehicles
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you, the bike was a mistake... it's one of the 5 or 6 vehicles that you don't rez-to-ride, but attach to yourself. ConfusinG!
Tateru Nino: Yes. Not adequately explained.
Moon Adamant: but Felix and Stan - the problem with some of the cars is that they just bolted people off - and that got a bit frustrating. Take Copy lessons are much easily done with freebie boxes, who don't yell 'You're not the owner!' :)
Sarg Bjornson: I agree
Lethe Naumova: I like the bike =(
Tateru Nino: But it /is/ a nice vehicle to use.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well I like it as a concept, but it's confusing.
Felix Uritsky: Which is why I wrote a short Copying tutorial into my freebie vehicle
Fairge Kinsella: I think that is true, there are other places to learn to copy, the cars just drive people nuts. Especially of there was no mentor there to explain.
Felix Uritsky: In both the description and the not-owner message
Stan Pomeray: True. Just stick a sign up in front of the car with easy-to-use instructions on it
Ginny Gremlin thinking of all the times she has seen newbies flying in the air after trying to drive
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, that would be an idea...
Sarg Bjornson: We need some bloody standards!
Moon Adamant: ah, the bike - teh only SL vehicle you don't drag and sit on lol.... had a bit of a fracas with it the other day
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe indeed Sarg!
Sarg Bjornson: Each items follows different rules!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes.
Fairge Kinsella: Seriously, that is the most often explaining I had to do on elp Isdland,eweven with teh Description text and explanatory notecards. New peolea re to new to know to look at those things, they just see the car
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But there is a large majority of objects following "common rules"
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And we should stick to those.
Sarg Bjornson: We need to conform all to that majority
Tateru Nino: We also have to help people learn what variety there is. After all, the creator sets the rules, and everyone things differently.
Salty Dmytryk: back-ish
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They can learn about "exceptions" in the mainland...
Moon Adamant: lol Sarg that was it exactly... i had just told the newbie that as a rule SL vehicles must be dragged and sat on - and he goes and picks the bike... :D
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm well, yes, tateru . I cannot disagree, I just find that they get confused.
Sarg Bjornson: lol
Tateru Nino: Okay. Cars. We want to buld a track and self-expiring cars?
Sarg Bjornson: Yay yesssss
doug Donovan: i like the track idea
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The track is a good idea.
Stan Pomeray: cant you get bikes that you dont't "wear"?
Ginny Gremlin: track is good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Remember the one we had, Moon? :)
Sarg Bjornson: Track, track!
Felix Uritsky: I don't think self-expiring cars would be a good idea, what happens if they want to keep the car?
Fairge Kinsella: Make it self expiring only on HI
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It was a track up in the sky...
doug Donovan: itll always be in the inv
Moon Adamant: ah, yes Gwyn sorry
Fairge Kinsella: So when they leave HI, it won't expire anymore.
Sarg Bjornson: 1 sec, let me show you mine
Tateru Nino: Fairge is right. We can test which sim it's in.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's very clever, Fairge!
Laroderr Dulce: @_@
Sarg Bjornson: Ouppss, too big
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh lol
Laroderr Dulce: awsome
doug Donovan: cool
Sarg Bjornson: Sory guys, I thought this place was bigger
Salty Dmytryk: is that sewage?
Tateru Nino: Even better, it can likely be tucked in as a separate script in an existing vehicle without having to hack the existing scripts.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
Laroderr Dulce: LOL
Felix Uritsky: I think we should also have some free-to-copy vehicles with a sign explaining how cars in SL work
Laroderr Dulce: good idea
Sarg Bjornson: I'd go with the parking lot and the cars
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well.... a track in the sky... with "boxes" where you can copy cars... that would work nicely.
Fairge Kinsella: If we do it by the water, we can have botas as well, and a balloon...
Felix Uritsky: When I joined SL, the very first thing I did was look for some vehicles
Tateru Nino: The demo vehicles however don't actually need to be copyable. As long as they are not restricted to the owner, and a new one rezzes when a newbie drives off...
Gwyneth Llewelyn 's first purchase was a Yacht. Took all my newbie money :)
Moon Adamant: well, i am all for having simple, quick reading information :)
Salty Dmytryk: i'm sorry, ground-based vehicles have neve been that much of a thing for me
Sarg Bjornson: We need to aim for intuitiveness
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Ginny Gremlin: from what I've observed of most newbies, they love them
Stan Pomeray: Ground based vehicles never drive that well
Salty Dmytryk: my point
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... if you put a track in the sky... it works rather well. Low-lag, no obstacles.
Sarg Bjornson: No sim crossings...
Ginny Gremlin: and as far as boats are concerned the first thing I ever copied was a yacht
Salty Dmytryk: i don't see making HI a vehicle kinda thing
Stan Pomeray: within 1 Sim you'd be OK yea
Felix Uritsky: True, but most people like cars, they're an almost-universal facet of fantasy lives
Tateru Nino: Alright. Let's close the cars. We know what we can do and we have ideas about other things. Let's try a few ideas out and see what works.
Sarg Bjornson: Yeah, we must not overdo the vehicle thing
Tateru Nino: Sarg is up next.
Sarg Bjornson: Yay my turn
Sarg Bjornson: Ok, I just want to remind you that I'm going to cut your hands if you don't start sending me landmarks NOW
Sarg Bjornson: lol
Garnet Psaltery: sorry Sarg
Salty Dmytryk: for?
Felix Uritsky: o.O
Laroderr Dulce: lol
Ginny Gremlin: landmarks for what?
Sarg Bjornson: One sec, let me give you the forum post address
Sarg Bjornson: Does anyone read the forums? lol
Felix Uritsky: Only when SL is down :-P
doug Donovan: sometimes
Salty Dmytryk: not me
Garnet Psaltery: I do
Laroderr Dulce: sometimes
Ginny Gremlin hunkers down in her seat. Forums?
Stan Pomeray: The forums are too intellectual for me :D
doug Donovan: lol
Moon Adamant: lol Stan
Salty Dmytryk: i'm too busy here
Sarg Bjornson: Always a first time :) /204/3c/82425/1.html
Salty Dmytryk: no time for furoms
Tateru Nino: Sarg is trying to compile a list of landmarks for mentors to give newbies, much like the greeters do.
Tateru Nino: That right, Sarg?
Sarg Bjornson: And this time those who have already read it, do it! lol
Sarg Bjornson: Yep Tat
Garnet Psaltery: Forum is a great place for keeping up with info
Ginny Gremlin: I've always given out landmarks
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Themed landmarks? Similar to the Helping HAND?
Sarg Bjornson: Yeah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. landmarks for info, for getting freebies, etc
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Sarg Bjornson: Like a list of places for building, exploring, socializing, etc
doug Donovan: i have a list of sl key combinations if anybody wants it
Sarg Bjornson: Thanks Ginny!
Garnet Psaltery: please doug
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yay doug! . yes please!
Ginny Gremlin: yw
Salty Dmytryk: ginny has put together a great newbie package with good landmarks
Ginny Gremlin: that includes places for men to shop
Sarg Bjornson: So everyone PLEASE send me a lm, even if from time to time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww Ginny . great!
doug Donovan: lol whoever wants one IM me
Garnet Psaltery: we all seem to have a mish-mash of things
Sarg Bjornson: Thanks Lar :)
Laroderr Dulce: np ^_^
Tateru Nino: Toss your favourite newbie landmarks to Sarg during or after the meeting. Or he will eat your soul.
Sarg Bjornson: Yeah!
Sarg Bjornson roars
Salty Dmytryk: apparently
Garnet Psaltery: *gulp*
Tateru Nino: Souls -> Yummy.
Ginny Gremlin happy her soul is safe
Stan Pomeray: Hmmm. I hope my graphics are good enough to display "soul eating"
Garnet Psaltery: I always send people to the Shelter
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or NCI.
Ginny Gremlin: same here
Sarg Bjornson: Send me those landmarks too anyway
Ginny Gremlin: Yadni's and Stillmans
Sarg Bjornson: Less work for me :)
Ginny Gremlin: the Library
Garnet Psaltery: Thanks doug
Sarg Bjornson: If while travelling around you find a cool place, by all means send it!
Moon Adamant: hmmm Sarg - can it just be places we like? like Mocha Cathedral?
Sarg Bjornson: Yeah Moon
Salty Dmytryk: or Protheus Temple?
Moon Adamant: and TY doug :)
Salty Dmytryk: prometheus
Sarg Bjornson: We'll vote on them afterwards
doug Donovan: yw
Tateru Nino: I'm sure Sarg will check them out and see what looks good :)
Stan Pomeray: cheers Doug
Tateru Nino: Okay. Doug's up next.
Sarg Bjornson: Thanks everyone :) This is the avalanche of lm I was expecting :)
Salty Dmytryk: don't blame me
doug Donovan: well i just thought if there were different "campuses" for different things
doug Donovan: like texturing, scripting, buildingf etc
Ginny Gremlin: excellent idea
doug Donovan: maybe a library for notercards and tutorials
Laroderr Dulce: i was thinking the same
Ginny Gremlin: I have a number of tutorial
Tateru Nino: We've started building more stations. Fairge just finished one all about sitting and poseballs.
Laroderr Dulce: yea
doug Donovan: yeah things like that
Tateru Nino: Blue has built one demonstrating physics.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *coughs* on the slow collection on notecards *coughs again*
Salty Dmytryk: info-tower
Gwyneth Llewelyn <-- is to blame
doug Donovan: or how to use the appearance thing etc
Salty Dmytryk: a central info space
Ginny Gremlin: yes
Ginny Gremlin: the appearance is one they need and don't seem to grasp'
Ginny Gremlin: and inventory
Tateru Nino: In a lot of cases it's either show the notecard to people with maybe a paragraph or two explaining something, or have the station recite the info.
Lethe Naumova: once we more clearly define areas of HI, HI needs lots more signs
Ginny Gremlin: I have had newbies in the WA havent even opened their inventory
Gwyneth Llewelyn thanks Moon for the long list of filtered/categorized notecards.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Fairge as well!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'll be happy to *collect* all notecards...
Moon Adamant: you're welcome, gwyn :) anyone else here who is in teh notecard uh commitee?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and eventually see what we're missing in terms of info
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since Fairge is here and she's also volunteered to help with those hehe...
Tateru Nino: Okay then. We all done on that topic?
Moon Adamant: ah, Fairge - want a copy of teh help categories as well? :)
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Salty Dmytryk: done?'
Fairge Kinsella: Ooookkkkkkk....
Fairge Kinsella: <grin>
Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh.
Sarg Bjornson: It is now when you bring the food?
Tateru Nino: I have two more small items. One of which I was going to mention earlier.
Salty Dmytryk: where is the cateriing?
Tateru Nino: Do we remember some of our longtime Help Islanders? Inq Freeloader? Lee Trenchmouth? DuganSixEcho?
Salty Dmytryk: dugan
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sadly no...
Sarg Bjornson: I'm too new for that
Felix Uritsky: Can't say I do
Salty Dmytryk: talked to him today
Tateru Nino: They came, they soakedup just about everything we could teach them, and maybe stayed 2 weeks.
Lethe Naumova: I've had two of them show up for my advanced class today
Lethe Naumova: advanced building class, that is
Fairge Kinsella: Awwww, how're they doing?
Tateru Nino: I've been following these people up and asking them what made them stay, and what made them think twice.
Ginny Gremlin: I remember then
Sarg Bjornson: Ohhh, you meant they are newbies
Ginny Gremlin: I thought Lee Trenchmouth was an alt
Tateru Nino: Ah, yes :)
Lethe Naumova: dugan's getting along well, I taught him cell shading =)
doug Donovan: i still do
Salty Dmytryk: he wants every Mentor to have a R2D2
Garnet Psaltery: Ah now I know why I was confused by that question
Fairge Kinsella: ANd Lee's girlfriend.... what was her name?
Tateru Nino: Nonnie.
Salty Dmytryk: lethe, you talk with him too?
doug Donovan: yup
Fairge Kinsella: I saw her out dancing the otehr night.
Fairge Kinsella: So what kept them hanign out wiht the nerdy kids <grin>?
Tateru Nino: Lee tells me that he just about left SL because everyone accused him of being an alt. Others felt the same. That their own talent and intellect was being run down.
Lethe Naumova: the other newbie I saw's name started with a T, forget the full name though
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm Tateru....
Laroderr Dulce: lol
Moon Adamant: Lee sometimes calls and asks me stuff
doug Donovan: i said that to him but i thought it was clear that i was joking
Lethe Naumova: er, accused by whom?
Fairge Kinsella: hey were being run own after they left HI, or while they were on HI?
Salty Dmytryk: i don't like being suspicious of alts, but I am
Tateru Nino: While they were on HI.
Ginny Gremlin: I never said anything to him
Sarg Bjornson: Damn
Felix Uritsky: Why do people go on such witchhunts for alts, anyway?
Salty Dmytryk: not sure
Sarg Bjornson: I think it is best to never assume anyone is an alt
Tateru Nino: I have a theory.
Fairge Kinsella: And it was helpers, not other new people?
Tateru Nino: We don't have as many resources to go around as we would like. If someone's an alt, particularly of an oldbie, we're better off spending time on someone else, right?
doug Donovan: ill make a note to not say that anymore...
Salty Dmytryk: i saw some guy that was a carzy builder, thought he came to HI as an alt, so everyone would steal
Moon Adamant: ah doug - i remember that - and there was quite a bit of us there
Felix Uritsky giggles
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And you're right, Tateru, but sometimes, how can you tell?
Lethe Naumova: it's easy to like somebody who actually learns
Sarg Bjornson: Most of the time you can't tell
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you... *some* Lindens will also pop by here and then. Let's say they're the "quality control team" :)
Tateru Nino: If they say they're an alt, fine, they're an alt. If not, just assume they're clever.
Sarg Bjornson: Yeah, I agree
Moon Adamant: hmmm, quite a lot of us* sorry, still not waken up properly
Tateru Nino: You might remember when I was a newbie and the stuff I was scripting on my first day.
Lethe Naumova: why don't we just settle for help those that need it most first =)
Felix Uritsky: I'd say we should assume someone isn't an alt unless they say otherwise
Tateru Nino: I could barely rez a prim, but I could script like anything.
Sarg Bjornson: There was a guy called Azurei who was doing advanced scripting on his second day
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed Felix.
Sarg Bjornson: Turns out he was just a programmer IRL
Garnet Psaltery: That helps
Lethe Naumova: break off advanced scripting 301 with rad newbie number 3 to get that box off of somebody's head
Fairge Kinsella: He he, he's still doing it on HI<grin>
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, Sarg, and Azurei was certainly a "first-time" user.
Tateru Nino asked Azurei to mind the island while we're here. :)
Sarg Bjornson: A cool and polite guy
Garnet Psaltery: He's one of the really nice ones that helps other newbies
Fairge Kinsella told Azurei, it was OK, he would read the minutes of the meeting later
Felix Uritsky: Yeah, someone I recruited works with C# as a day job, and he was making crazy intricate scripts on day 1. He made a wagging tail script three months before it was actually a possibility
Sarg Bjornson: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: !
Laroderr Dulce: o_O
Tateru Nino: Part 2: Every one of those skilled newbies /who STAYED/ had one thing in common: They'd either gone to the shelter or the NCI.
Fairge Kinsella: Anyway Tateru, your point is taken, about cherishing the creative people, and not teasing them about being alts. But the anyone tom them say why they stated on HI so long? I thought that they were much better fit for main grid life because of it...
Garnet Psaltery: people hae told me they like it because it's peaceful
Tateru Nino: In a sense, we're making oldbies. When Azurei or Pretty leave HI they'll have the same skills as an average 1 year oldbie.
Felix Uritsky: That's why I like HI :-)
Tateru Nino: Lee and Dugan did.
Stan Pomeray: wow.....I'd better become a newbie again, so I can "upskill" :D
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, I fully agree, Tateru.
doug Donovan: lol
Laroderr Dulce: lol
Ginny Gremlin: I think they like the one on one tutoring
Moon Adamant: you are very right, Tat :)
Lethe Naumova: you can only level up to 70 by returning to help island as a volunteer
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Lethe
Ginny Gremlin: where else are you going to get that?
Fairge Kinsella: So ahy clused on how to get such poeple to stay on HI longer?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm. I think they stay around "naturally" Fairge.
Lethe Naumova: I don't see our role as talking people into staying
Tateru Nino: Part 1: If they don't say they're an alt, treat them as fresh. Part 2: Do everything you can to get them into a newbie support group when they go.
Lethe Naumova: I nudge them gently and let them leave
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd say, it's the same mindset that makes some students stay for longer at college trying to learn, and others to run away back home as fast as they can to get ready for the night . hehe
Stan Pomeray: It probably comes down to simple "Patience". SOme people are more into learning things, others just want to get right in and "play"
Ginny Gremlin: i think our role is supposed to be helping those who want it, to adjust to SL
Fairge Kinsella: I'm not thinking of talking people into staying, but getting people to stay more than a few minutes if they show up and no helpers are there, so tehy run right off to the main grid.
Salty Dmytryk: i see it AS "RETAINMENT"
Moon Adamant: but Tat, i know successful newbies - in the sense they have stablished a full SL *citizenship* - who never went to eithe the Shelter or NCI
Salty Dmytryk: opps'caps
Tateru Nino: We're their friends. When they leave us, half the equation is gone for them. They still have their skills, but they've just lost access to their friends on HI.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm.
Tateru Nino: They need a social circle.
Garnet Psaltery: I make friends with every newbie I talk to
Ginny Gremlin: me too
doug Donovan: but we;re still available
Garnet Psaltery: I stay in touch for about a month
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ã?see your point, Tateru. Hmm.
Stan Pomeray: I have two or three who IM me for help now they are on the mainland. Seem to be getting along OK
Fairge Kinsella: Actually, for a lot of them we're not. When we're on HI, we don't show up as being onine, even if we're in their friends list.
Moon Adamant: me too Garnet - and i know they're fitted in when they stop IMing you every other day :D
Salty Dmytryk: im time!
Tateru Nino: I just get so many IMs when I log in. Maybe 20-30 IM pounces. I've got two newbies on the line now.
Felix Uritsky: Wait, do what, Fairge? We don't show up when on HI?
Garnet Psaltery: Are we nearly finsihed?
Tateru Nino: Nearly, I think.
Garnet Psaltery: Ta
Moon Adamant: Felix, we show up as location Unknown
Felix Uritsky: Ahh
Ginny Gremlin: my friends say I show up as not on line
Tateru Nino: Unless someone has another topic (a brief one please) to inject, I'm content to let this topic run.
Sarg Bjornson: I have one
Sarg Bjornson: Bring on the food!
Gwyneth Llewelyn has one question as well
Fairge Kinsella: Yes, I've had all my fiends say I show up as not line while on HI.
Moon Adamant: i have one
Tateru Nino: DO - remember to check the HI staffroom for updated meeting times and notecards.
Stan Pomeray: Where's the staffroom?
Tateru Nino: (Staffroom is 80 metres above the HI sandbox)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, i meant a serious one, lol . stamping out a rumour, actually.
Tateru Nino: Okay. Gwyn? Shoot.
Moon Adamant: oh, yours is the same as mine, gwyn, lol
Garnet Psaltery: Staffroom?
Ginny Gremlin: I didn't know they were there
Fairge Kinsella: What! you didn;'t kiss that frog?
Sarg Bjornson: Oh, rumours, cool :)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, hmm, some alleged Linden commented at the HI
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that it would be "open to other residents"
Garnet Psaltery: why weren't we told about it>
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. not only Volunteers.
Salty Dmytryk: i should make a staffrrom
Salty Dmytryk: ]i will get on it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, if this was meant as a JOKE, I'd be fine.
Tateru Nino: I heard the same comment - secondhand.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If it's more to it (ie. no rumour) I'd like to get a confirmation.
doug Donovan: hmmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, third-hand in my case.
Moon Adamant: i also heard it secondhand
Sarg Bjornson: That would be bad
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's the problem with rumours.
Moon Adamant: and passed it on to gwyn, lol
Lethe Naumova: the linden in question was Brian
Gwyneth Llewelyn: "a friend of a friend heard it"... and it spreads.
Garnet Psaltery: gah! no
Felix Uritsky: Oh :-P
Salty Dmytryk: i have it covered, no worries
Ginny Gremlin: what is open to others?
Sarg Bjornson: HI
Lethe Naumova: I have a feeling that it was meant that newbies could teleport to HI from the OIs
Tateru Nino: I am assuming for the moment that it's a misunderstanding or a miscommunication, as HI was developed expressly for the purpose of avoiding that. Besides if the WA regulars turned up, there would be no sim capacity for newbies.
Ginny Gremlin: it is?
Felix Uritsky: I see now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. So miscommunication. That we can handle.
Ginny Gremlin: are they going to do anything about WA?
Tateru Nino: That is my assumption.
doug Donovan: i cant see that happening
Sarg Bjornson: We are USED to it, Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed.
Lethe Naumova: that would be my guess as well, having heard it only secondhand
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so this means that all of you either heard it secondhand...
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... and thus is most probably miscommunication
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... and we should ask Jeska instead :)
Felix Uritsky: This is the first I've heard of it
Ginny Gremlin: me too Felix
Garnet Psaltery: Sorry I have to get up and move around - c/h is gone and I'm cold - brb
Tateru Nino: Clarification: There is an open-air staffroom and lesson area 80 metres above the Help Island sandbox. The Staffroom has notecard dispensers for the latest volunteer information about the island, and the times for these gatherings.
Tateru Nino: Okay. Let's call this gathering closed. Remember to check for next week's time, and DO(!) submit items for the agenda for the next one. Easier if I have a list.
Tateru Nino: Thankyou all for coming. I'd look pretty stupid here by myself.
Felix Uritsky: lol