Rewarding Hot Spots (a.k.a. killing the voting stations)

What about those of us who cannot be in game as much as others as we hold rl jobs? I am noticing more and more that I rank no better than I did when I first started playing. Even tho my skills at building have grown by leaps and bounds. This did not bother me until I saw that ppl with um very little skills who are on all the time are on the leader boards. This is disheartining when I put so much effort into my builds only to be beat out on the leader by someone who made a colorful box. Or worse yet they dont even build but take credit for someone elses work and rise up the charts.

If you like something you have seen built check out who the creator is not the owner. The owner can be anyone but there is realy only one creator of the object.

Maybe a builders station giving a ranking to the builder even when they are not in world would be nice.

Cat

First, let me address the recent post about weighted vote booths -- YES! As Hun pointed out, it needs a little balancing, but it is a simple solution to help improve the already working, yet somewhat flawed, vote booths.

Secondly, I do not like the idea of getting points for time served at some location (prisoners serve time, thanks).

I don't like it because of various reasons. Mainly: (these are *personal* opinions, yet nonetheless that IS what forms my opinion of the new system)

1. Not unlike others, I tend, at times, to be solitary. I enjoy scripting and building my little toys and widgets. Certainly I enjoy visitors, but not constant visitors -- and often I'm ignorant to anyone's presence anyway due to screen fulls of script windows, help windows, notes, and such. People tend to fly up, and fly away.

2. I don't want to have to attract people to earn cash. My builds will attract them, over time. I'm in no hurry. But I like my tiny, nearly hidden, vote box. Those that DO enjoy my builds tend to wander around back and click my vote booth in approval. I don't want to have to have bikini contests daily to insure I'm popular and paid. (naturally some folks do want to do this, events and such, and they can place a vote booth easily enough for said event).

3. Some places are just natural hang outs. Hot tubs, large buildings, etc. My personal space is small, I like it small. And isn't really a social spot. One border is water, the other Linden land, and two other sides are fellow players. More often than not, those chatting with me or watching me monkey around with yet another script gone wild are standing on the (mostly) vacant lots to my south and west sides. Not on my land, there's little room.

4. I have a small build in Blue in Americana. Happens to be on my land (64x64 ugh taxes!), but the majority of folks in themes do NOT build on their land. And, as stated over and over, the new routine will simply screw theme members. I have little doubt that we will soon see few or no themes, and lots of public land up for sale.

5. Voting is tedious, but fun. I typically fly a "vote route" from Teal to Blue to Kissling to Bonifacio -- and points in between. Naturally I have my favorites, but I almost always find something new to check out, or something's added/changed. I like to investigate, and click my approval, assuming I approve! I like voting -- but I'd like it even more if it was weighted.

phew, long winded, anywho summary:
New proposed system = while (num == 1) {/boo;num=1}
Weighted Vote Booths = Yah!

Boso

p.s. forum time out time = /boo! Please increase +2hours or so

Unfortunately, in a thread I started, flames started flying about the fact that the Lindens are deciding to use the land dwelling system to replace voting booths, so I'm bumping up this thread so others can place their feedback here, since I didn't really read this thread at all and wanted to see why LL should or shouldn't do the land dwelling. I'm going to reply to the questions, since that's what Cory wanted.

1) Do you enjoy having to visit spots that you think are worth a vote every day in order to ensure that the owner gets her bonus?

No, this would only become a chore.

2) Do you think that it is a problem that someone can vote for 50 or more stations in an evening and overwhelm the effects of individuals who vote for one or two pieces of content that they really like?

Yes and no. I think the person doing all that voting is taking their time out to work for the system (voting gives money) whereas the other is sick of the system and only voting at specific places because they're easiest to get to. That's my belief anyways.

3) Would you enjoy being to select some number of locations or objects (say 5) as your favorites, that stay your favorites until you change them, so that you wouldn't have to vote for the hippo statue every day?

Yes. However I would like it to be more in-depth than that. How about ranks so you can specifically note which place is your #1 favorite so that place gets more money. With this method, you don't have to have a limited amount of favorites, however your favorite favorites get more money.

4) Conversely, would you enjoy having a limited number "unfavorites" that indicate that you really don't like something until you change them (and that have some effect on the owner of the object/land)?

No. This can be abused too harshly.

5) How many of you actuallly use the building and avatar ratings to indicate whether or not you like a resident's creations/avatars versus how many default to positive ratings unless really provoked?

I do. I even wrote a note card telling people to do this. But I think that people being told how to vote won't appreciate that they are being told how to vote.

6) How many of you know that you can rate any owner and any creatore of objects by clicking edit, clicking more to expand the edit dialog, going to the general tab (so that you can see the owner and creator), clicking profile to see their profile, and the clicking rate to get to the rate dialog?

Takes too long. Definitely needs a shortcut. And this is for person ratings, not vote booth ratings. So it's not really anything special at the moment. I think it would work out a lot better if it were directly on the pie menu.

7) How many of you would appreciate that being simpler and more obvious?

Uhhh me

My current build is at the very edge of the world in Darkwoods.
I get very little flyby traffic(and not really many votes either).
Under this new system my build just wouldn't be able to
exist.

If you are determined to turn your game into a popularity contest I won't be part of it .

And please don't kid yourselves into thinking that the poputlarity rating systems aren't being abused.

If you want to replace the voting systme with something new that fine but I don't think this is the way to go.

Mostly I like this idea, but like so many others have already pointed out it still mostly rewards socializing, not quality. I think the only way to avoid this is to not try and think of the traffic reward as being anything other than what it is... a reward for giving people something to do.

So that still leaves a lot of work to be done to more effectively dole out the skill based rewards, which are currently way too skewed towards social players. If that also gets more balanced and fair then the combination of things should make for a much fairer system.

I propose that in addition to this replacement to vote booths we also have "rate boxes" If you really love someone's building then you could click on it their rate box and be given an easier way to rate the builder rather than going through the convoluted process of going into edit mode on their object, clicking their profile, and then clicking rate. No one bothers to do that, probably because most people don't know you can. Having ratings be directly tied to social interaction defeats the prupose of it.

I like this idea very much, I just think it's only one part of the overall solution.

In a word...no.

Substituting one set of problems for another is no solution.

If the voting stations are being abused, fix it so they can't be. If the voting stations are not appealing to the eye, improve their appearance. (I happen to like the way they look now, but a less intrusive design is both possible and welcome.)

The many economic flaws in the proposed system have already been articulated by others far better than I could have done. That this should have been sorted out in Beta goes without saying. For myself, I'm greatly concerned by the social ramifications of this scheme. Therefore, I want to fully explain the point I made at the Town Hall.

The confusion as to what is actually being rewarded is due to the fact that mere presence in a place implies...nothing at all.

I recently spent at least 30 minutes in a building that is partly used to display a great number of textures available for purchase. Honestly, I dislike the build, and disliked 99% of the textures on display. I remained there so long because I was hoping to find a few interesting textures among the dross. Obviously, I didn't vote for it. The idea that the owner/builder should be handsomely rewarded for my time spent there is ludicrous.

It is for to me to decide if I like a place or not, not some busybody computer. The Lindens’ proposal to take away our freedom of choice would be a huge step backwards for the community. And I agree that a simpler direct rating system is needed, either with, or instead of, the stations.

I would have to agree with the majority consensus on this one. The flyby system sounds cool in theory, but I think that peoples tastes would be best reflected and interests best served by a favorites ranking system.

This system would have to be set up so that there was a way to rank places that you disliked as well as places that you liked. It would need to be a top 10 (20,50?) list and bottom 10 list, or something else which would allow each building to be ranked only one time in relation to all others.

Of course, people need to realize that the voting and rating of properties and constructs is important and functional, and that no rating system in the world is going to help someone with property in an out of the way location. No matter what system you use, if people don't see your work, it won't be rated. Therefore, visible property is going to be more lucrative. That's just the way things are.

Sounding a lot like TSO.
You need to make sure there isn't some way to "beat the system". PPl in TSO had bots that would mimic mouse movement. There for all they had to do was set up a pattern. I am not sure how they could do it here, but if there is a way, I am sure someone will figure out a way to take advantage.

Oh I can think of a way right quick. Create one of the many transport systems in SL, balloon, jet pack or whatever, and program it to move you from place to place. Leave your computer on all day while you are at work. You could probably make the script pretend to be you ala the Eliza program: "What makes you say 'Why are you acting so strange' Nyna?"

But I'm curious about what the status of this is. There seem to be equal numbers for and against, although I think we have learned with other issues that the people who are doing most of the talking don't ALWAYS represent the majority.

I'm not a big fan of the voting booths, but I also haven't heard good answers to some of the "hang time" or "dwell time" issues. What do you do about people like me who don't particularly desire to schedule events on their land. My current project is a beach resort populated by tiny little people. If I had a party their they would all be squished! Average attention span for my build might be 30 seconds. I'm happy with that if people get a laugh, but I'm not sure it will pay the bills.

What about land that is, for lack of a better term, odd shaped. Do the "dwellers" have to be directly over the land or just near it? If the latter is the "dwell" time divided among all the nearby land by some complex distance calculations from each point? Until recently I had land in 4 or 5 separate spots, now I've consolidated to two, but I know people who still have their builds spread around, how will that be handled?

Anyway... whats the status on this? Is it one of the things in the next release or is it just on hold pending some better consensus?

I have a problem with doing away with the voting booths. It goes back to what I was saying in the Taxes, Economy, etc. thread.

People with larger builds will get a much larger chance at having people on their land, and those with small plots of land won't recieve half as much if any money. Money's clearly an issue, but the 35L I get a day from the voting booth is probably a lot more than I'll get from the money I recieve from people spending time at my home.

Pleeease, let's be careful about where the money's being dispersed; there's so many new players and, like I think somoene said earlier, there's people at the lower end of the economic palette who wouldn't mind rising up, while in this no-voting booth situation it'd only be to the wealthy's benefit.

Aye, Sklar, 'tis a finely worded post 'o great import!
Hmmm...Hmmm. Sorry, just seen Pirates of the Caribbean.

Indeed, smaller, less grand builds (like mine) will get the short end of the stick. And it ain't much more than a toothpick to begin with. One quickly finds oneself property rich but cash poor. And the tax man cometh...every damn week.

The extant economic system seems geared towards the average, rather than the exceptional. (catchy phrase, I'm glad I stole it). And I side with the others who point out that those of us with relatively little available time to spend iw, haven't the luxury of doing prolonged fly/tele tours just to acknowledge the efforts of our favorite builders every single time we log in.

So, when the Lindens come to take MY voting booth, they'd best come with a sizable army. Or at least a few cap pistols, parrots, that sort of thing...

"Taxes are a stupid thing." -- Carlos Castaneda

This system will probably cause me to close my Museum in Aqua and I'll tell you why: while right now the Museum doesn't get a ton of business, except on "opening nights," it does get enough votes on a daily basis to chug by and allow me to afford the taxes on it. I don't think, though, that those votes come from folks who spend a lot of time checking out the art. Plus, the build itself is right next to Av central, which makes the place feel like a "mall" -- it's hard to tell where one person's build ends and another begins. This means that most people who are voting there are probably standing on Linden land when they do vote. In addition, my artists like to put up a vote booth for their exhibits -- which I consider a separate build -- they do the work, the art, the placing of pieces. I only deal with the shell it goes into. This means that they can't possibly get any reward for putting work up in The Museum other than selling pieces. Unfortunately, art is not the most popular selling item in SL -- therefore, they don't usually make a ton of money at this. But they do make some money. So there's no incentive, other than the desire to show their work to the world, to even contribute to the space.

In addition, I have a tree -- big ole tree in Slate, which tends to get a few votes a day -- again, not many, but enough to allow me to afford the tax and not be overburdened too much. It is not the world's best tree build but I try to keep it nice and peaceful. Problem is, not many people actually hang out in parks. They fly near them, around them, check out the pretty flowers and move on pretty fast from my experience. My neighbors seem to like it pretty well -- but most of them can see it from their own houses so there's no reason to "hang out" under my tree. So I guess I'm getting at this: although the votebooths are ugly and the system *is* somewhat flawed -- the dwell system means that small builds that don't really appeal to the "masses" are going to suffer (from what I can tell from the post). I try to do things in SL as a kind of "public service" if at all possible, there *should* be things that are non-Linden in SL we can enjoy without having to pay for it. Art and Gardens fit that definition for me. But I know by trying to promote art and gardens I"m not going to get rich. And it seems to me with this dwell system I'm actually going to head the opposite direction.

Then again, we'll see. I have no idea what the actual traffic patterns are on my place so I could be wrong. But I have a feeling that I'm going to go from a player who like to "volunteer" to help people to someone who is kind of forced into merchant-dom in order to survive. Too bad, too, because I think SL needs more "original" content like the art my artists put up in the Museum, but that's just me.

Zana

I kinda like doing daily voting runs by my neighbors house. It give me a chance to see if they have done anything new.