Your Thoughts on Forum Culture

Oh, for a second I thought you were adding something.

Next?

Ban me

I endorse this product and/or service

I bet you do

and sorry, it should have read Bite Me

In one aspect its funny that there is any moderation at all. Considering damage done in the past cannot be revoked or undone.

So whats the solution here moderate to the point we feel big brother is watching or letting it get to the point of WWF smack down. Either way people are not going to Post.

So again I ask whats the solution? Well we have seen that 40 sub forums rarely get used and everyone Migrates to the Main or "General" Forum.

Things that Happen in the General forum...well blatent advertising for one yup you got it Im complaining about advertisment. Why because when the forum for Classifieds were developed it was due to a big rant that advertisment should be placed in a sub forum called classifieds that people were to migrate to in order to view new things being created.

Now the Classifieds are no more than a Spam Fest for the next New Club owner. (another topic entirely mind you )

But the point I am making here is this currently there is how to say this eloquently to much inconsistancy as to how forum topics are handled.

1 Thread a person can get ripped to shredds and nary a harsh word be said but the underlying sarcasm there is just as damaging as if a person said " Jack Snow is a Shit head" << nothing is done with a thread of this sort

2 A thread where a person is a friend of another jokingly says something and the thread is totaly locked.

There are multitude of other instances that can be itterated but the point is basically if the threads are to be moderated then the Rules need to be CLEARLY defined with subtext to give examples. Otherwise the rules are going to be interpreted loosely and people are going to test their limits.

Again I dont have a solution but when one is found I think the following things must be adheared to.

1 Clear definition of the rules

2 Clear arbitration of disputes handeled openly

3 Moderation handled swiftly and described clearly as the violation.

4 Clearly define culprits and being less vauge doling out disipline

But thats just my opinion simply, if your going to moderate moderate dont do it with a soft dont do that johnny or I will put you in time out mentality. Do it in a fashion where Johnny knows next time he screws up his ass wont be able to sit down for a month.

Shadow.

Thanks for all of the great and insightful comments. Here are some of my own thoughts/reflections on your comments so far:

I think there is a difference between something that is passionate, politically charged or an opposing viewpoint to everyone else and something that is intolerant, purposefully inflammatory, rude or otherwise attacking of another resident. Albeit some people may be thicker skinned than others,

Also, there is an overall sense that the community would like clear rules and transparent enforcement, I think this is what we've been striving for in the SL forums as long as I have been involved in the moderation here.

Ironically, saying something that pisses someone else off is fully within your right - this is diplomacy, or the lack of it.

Hpwever, one point I'd like to bring to the table is there's a distinction between attacking someone's ideas, and attacking the person directly. The former is fine - the latter usually is not. As far as I'm concerned, you can attack someone else's view until the cows come home, and while I may not agree with it, hey - go for it! The second you call someone else anything derogatory, though, and it's intended to hurt the other party - then, honestly, I feel you've crossed the line and actions of some form should be taken.

One problem that I see with disciplinary action taken against personal attacks is that it doesn't seem to be consistantly applied across the boards. I have seen the same individuals pursuing the same disputes or new ones with seemingly no consequences. Any rule that is unevenly applied is sure to generate both resentment and also some question about where the line is.

"Give us, us free!"

I think that there should be 'off-topic' forums for SL.
SL is more than just a game to me. In world I talk to people about much more than just SL and I think the forums are a way of keeping that worldly feel to SL.

I almost never read anything other than Feature Suggestions. For me, the non-tech forums have become a sort of vague, gassy cloud of mostly uninteresting chit-chat. Threads have an annoying tendency to fill up with massive amounts of circlejerking, exceedingly shrill personal attacks, and posts from People Who Are Smarter Than Everyone Else. It also seems like there is a tendency for the admins to close threads that are deemed "no longer constructive" or whatever. I don't really view forums as places where everyone has to get along with each other, or where threads have to "stay constructive," and I didn't see the point in closing several of the threads that I've seen closed. There is just too much nannying going on. For a person like me, freedom of expression ranks 9.8/10, whereas an individual's desire to not feel insulted or "threatened" (Jesus people, these are WORDS) is maybe as high as 1/10.

'Blue Man Group' guy is right!

(Ok, ok, I had to do it.)

some react the same either way. if someone attacks their ideas, they feel personally attacked. it's not an easy distinction.

Jeska,

My point of view is exactly the same as it was the last time I commented when this issue came back before (as it seems to do regularly).

Forum censorship is, like it or not, totalitarianism, and it is in my view something that doesn't belong in the tolerant atmosphere of the rest of second life.

I believe there are only four reasons why a post should ever be censored. 1. Hate speech. 2. The revealing of real life information about a member. 3. Threats or incitement to violence. 4. Anything else that is contrary to American law.

The simple and obvious solution is to have a General forum that is hidden to all except existing account holders. If an inflammatory posting appears in a public forum, then move it to the hidden one.

Quite frankly I can't understand why this wasn't implemented a year ago.

Jeska, isn't there some option in your forum software to allow the "star" thread ratings to have more effect, and to reduce the "bump" effect that new posts have in a thread?
Right now we have the ability to moderate the forums ourselves. But as long as people keep bumping a thread, it doesnt matter whether its rating is one star or five.

Of course we've seen how 'well' ratings work in-world. By all means, rate threads too!

Eh, nah.

I agree Selador. Seems pretty basic.

Thread ratings currently make a thread disappear, you dope.
Negative ratings have no impact on anything but your bonus and possibly reputation.
If in-world ratings made people disappear from SL they would be a lot more effective

I suppose if these were actually 'free' forums I wouldn't want any censorship. But since they are owned by the Lindens, I would like to see them follow the TOS.

The Lindens could just these forums completely game related and delete any thread or post that isn't about SL.

Camille,

<<The Lindens could just [make?] these forums completely game related and delete any thread or post that isn't about SL.>>

We all know what the Lindens could do; hopefully this thread is about what they should do.

I wouldn't mind them being completely free of control but then I wouldn't read them because it would just be personal attacks, mindless banter between just a few posters, and endless threads on the same topic.

So, they just resubmit another thread. Yep, I can see how that would work....

This is, unfortunately, correct. The only point I'm raising here is it's okay, as I see it, until the threshhold of "your idea sucks" crosses into personal attacks on the others' person. Even though that may be a simple matter of escalation, it's where I would draw the line.

Essentially, any phrase containing "you" and a derogatory statement meant in earnest is where I would draw the line here.

Great conversation, I wanted to repost the stated purpose of the Second Life forums, because while we do allow for off-topic discussion, we do have an overall goal (copied from the SL Forum Guidelines):

Purpose
The purpose of the Second Life Forums is to promote discussion and education about Second Life. We believe in an honest and open free exchange of ideas, and in always maintaining a respect for the opinions and positions of other people.

Any discussion on SL Forum culture should keep that driving purpose in mind.

I don't grasp why some feel that Linden Lab is obligated to provide a service outside of the Second Life program to communicate about anything, including Second Life. I don't think you will find any statements by Linden Lab accepting such an obligaton. If Linden Lab does accept this obligation, I would like to request that it be extended beyond these forums to include a printed daily and weekly newspaper, a slick monthly magazine, TV and radio stations, and now that I'm on a roll I'd include a cell phone apiece as well.

I can't begin to understand how anyone could possibly think the word totalitarian applies to Linden Lab exercising some restraint over a resources it provides and has full ownership of. Linden Lab deleting a post or barring someone from the forums does not deny anyone the right to free speech, violate their religious freedom , abolish their right to free trade or free travel , or establish a centralized state with extensive control over all aspects of a societies social and economic life. Totalitarianism that doesn't do any of those things must be some new-fangled kind of Totalitarianism-Lite.

Linden Lab provides the forums for us to help each other use Second Life more effectively, to help them make the program work more reliably, to allow Linden Lab to inform us of matters they feel might be of concern, and to allow us to offer suggestions for improvements in the program to Linden Lab. All of these goals can be accomplished without the use of the foul language, personal attacks, sexual references, political commentary, religious squabbles, inane drivel, or incomprehensible jibberish that appears so often in these forums.

I support the Linden's effort to make the forums a pleasant place to read about Second Life by suppressing the behavior of those who try so hard to make it not be one.