Second Life Lightstone client - Alpha Testers expression of Interest
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Komuso Tokugawa
Registered User
Join date: 3 Mar 2005
Posts: 93
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05-16-2005 22:09
HeyHo, I'm getting close to releasing an alpha test client for the Wilddivine Lightsone (for PC only). It will allow you to drive objects with your SCl (Skin Conductance Energy levels) in Second Life (Phase 2 will add HRV/pulse). I was wondering if there were any people interested in helping me test it on both client and SL sides. Alpha test means ideally you have some of the following: . some technical skills and ability to troubleshoot on your own . familiar with installing java environment on windoze . some knowledge of Second Life scripting/building . A Win XP box - for SL and Obviously a Lightstone biometric interface! A lightstone? Check out the shop in Luna Gallery Plot 5 for an Ingame video if you don't have one. More info here: http://slfuturesalon.blogs.com/second_life_future_salon/2005/05/innerlife_propo.htmlThanks in advance, Pc/kt
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Nekokami Dragonfly
猫神
Join date: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 638
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05-19-2005 12:06
Maybe not too many folks in SL who have Light Stones (shipped with the Journey to Wild Divine software) are reading this... I'll do it, though. neko
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Satchmo Prototype
eSheep
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,323
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05-19-2005 18:24
From: Nekokami Dragonfly Maybe not too many folks in SL who have Light Stones
Why not design this around a low cost pulse-oximeter? You don't get skin conductance, but you might be able to convince a few people to buy them. I can't imagine buying this PC game just for the hardware, so I can use it in SL. You'd have even a better chance of people playing if you just went to some basic heart rate monitor... they are cheap, and are also good to use while you exercise (to know if your in your target heart rate for cardio).
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Nekokami Dragonfly
猫神
Join date: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 638
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05-19-2005 18:50
This isn't the only device we plan to support, but there was already an SDK available. Gotta start somewhere! We're looking into other, lower-cost devices, as well, and we're designing the LSL side to be able to accept as many input sources as possible, using some XML standardization. If you know of a vendor that makes an interesting low-cost device that has USB connection and PC/Mac SDK available, let us know the vendor, and we'll take a look. (If you can help write the interface, even better.  ) All that being said, it's a good game, for a standalone single player experience. neko
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Satchmo Prototype
eSheep
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,323
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05-19-2005 19:15
From: Nekokami Dragonfly If you know of a vendor that makes an interesting low-cost device that has USB connection and PC/Mac SDK available, let us know the vendor, and we'll take a look. (If you can help write the interface, even better.  ) I'm out of town for a few days starting in a few minutes, but I'll let you know the products I've used in the past when I return. I can donate tons of code for the Nonin lines of pulse-oximeters ( http://www.nonin.com/products/oem/) but I wouldn't exactly call them consumer cheap, at least not the ones I'm using in development. If they do sell cheaper consumer models, I'd suspect my code would work just the same. It mostly consists or opening up the serial port and parsing the signal. I know computers don't really ship with a serial port these days, but I think you'd have better luck finding a device that does serial. As the PC industry moves forward, serial is still the staple for all other devices. The Keyspan serial-to-usb adapters work wonders, but again perhaps I'm defeating the point, if the point is price.
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Komuso Tokugawa
Registered User
Join date: 3 Mar 2005
Posts: 93
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05-20-2005 02:23
http://www.rei.com/online/store/Search?vcat=REI_SEARCH&stat=7889&langId=-1&storeId=8000&textQuery=sportstat&x=0&y=0At US$395 their consumer models seem to be about 2.5 times the price of a WildDivine game/lightstone combination. I'm not a pimp for WD, just that it was reasonably cheap (US$160) and provides some useful bio signals such as scl, pulse (derived) and hrv (derived through sdk). with which to prototype enactive interfaces. I have one, I'm researching some stuff, SL happens to be one platform available to play with (with some -ve points wrt latency). and yes, the point is price...if you can find something under the WD price that offers similar/better functionality over USB with an SDK I'd be interested. But don't let me stop you with the pulseoximeter idea...look forward to it:-0
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Alan Kiesler
Retired Resident
Join date: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 354
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05-23-2005 11:37
I posted on the other site, but wanted to also mention here that I'm interested in giving this a try. I now have the lightstone, and have rapidly gained a new respect for BFB in general.
If you're still working on getting the PC side releaseable, at least send me a notecard and/or scripts that explain the LSL comms side of the equation, so I can set things up ahead of time (to make things easier later on). I've already created an actual Lightstone attatchment, just need the scripts (you can see it in the temple in Tavarua, its reasonably to scale).
_____________________
Timothy S. Kimball (RL) -- aka 'Alan Kiesler' The Kind Healer -- http://sungak.net
No ending is EVER written; Communities will continue on their own.
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Komuso Tokugawa
Registered User
Join date: 3 Mar 2005
Posts: 93
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05-23-2005 18:44
From: Alan Kiesler If you're still working on getting the PC side releaseable, at least send me a notecard and/or scripts that explain the LSL comms side of the equation, so I can set things up ahead of time (to make things easier later on).
a. don't panic b. relax c. I advise completing WD game at least once so as to get to a level of bio control that will make handling the SL latency easier d. http://secondlife.com/badgeo/wakka.php?wakka=XMLRPC e. I will release simple sample as well - it's basically a no brainer substringing or using lists to parse the data f. waiting to hear back from WD regarding some license/fee issues with SDK g. see point b 
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cell Neutra
That's L$50k please
Join date: 26 Sep 2004
Posts: 28
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05-31-2005 14:13
OK, I'm certainly not an expert in biofeedback at this piont (though I've highly considered getting my PhD in biomedical engineering with emphasis in either heuroengineering ro biosensors). I was wondering if any of you had researched the cost of actually making your own biofeedback sensors. I have a degree in electronics engineering and have found that many common devices can be made much cheaper than bought, especially if they are mass produced. They may not look as pretty, but functionality is more important anyway.
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Komuso Tokugawa
Registered User
Join date: 3 Mar 2005
Posts: 93
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06-01-2005 19:19
Sure, the http://openeeg.sourceforge.net/doc/ has been going a while. It's always a tossup...build or buy. However, a lot of people are not geeks and don't have the time or inclination..that's why we have this thing called an economy where people deliver products and services that may not do exactly what you want, but most of. Functionality over looks is important for a small part of the market only, aesthetic design PLUS functionality is an important buying crtieria for a lot of people...try making a business selling functional ugly products. You might last a while, but not for long. Then again, pet rocks sold really well.
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Satchmo Prototype
eSheep
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,323
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06-14-2005 09:19
From: cell Neutra OK, I'm certainly not an expert in biofeedback at this piont (though I've highly considered getting my PhD in biomedical engineering with emphasis in either heuroengineering ro biosensors). I was wondering if any of you had researched the cost of actually making your own biofeedback sensors. I have a degree in electronics engineering and have found that many common devices can be made much cheaper than bought, especially if they are mass produced. They may not look as pretty, but functionality is more important anyway. I was talking to a friend about biofeedback games and he offerred this same suggestion. The cost involved with most commercial devices is largely due to FDA approval. Any reason to require FDA approval? I understand where Komuso is coming from. Not many people are gonna buy the compenents and play with the solder required, but if some self organizing force of players want to create and sell low cost bio-feedback devices that might work. Like the Nintendo DS hackers who created PassMe
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Talila Liu
Micro Builder
Join date: 29 Jan 2004
Posts: 132
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06-15-2005 11:03
Let me know where you want me, when you want me.
Got my lightstone a few weeks ago... So im really not all that good with it.. haha..
X.x
Anyways, yah, let me know.
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Silurius Pinkney
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 8
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06-28-2005 15:02
I'm new to SL and I've had a lightstone for a while although I'm no expert, yet. PM me if you still need testers.
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Komuso Tokugawa
Registered User
Join date: 3 Mar 2005
Posts: 93
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06-28-2005 15:22
From: Satchmo Prototype I was talking to a friend about biofeedback games and he offerred this same suggestion. The cost involved with most commercial devices is largely due to FDA approval. Any reason to require FDA approval? mmmm....getting zapped being plugged into a computer with electrodes attached to your skin might be one. I think the open EEG project has one very specific warning dealing with this possibility.
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Komuso Tokugawa
Registered User
Join date: 3 Mar 2005
Posts: 93
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06-28-2005 15:23
Hi Talila and Silurius, Alpha 0.2 coming soon.
cheers, kt
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Silurius Pinkney
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 8
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06-28-2005 16:03
I'd like to bump up the suggestion to collaborate with the OpenEEG project. Neurofeedback would be awesome.
Smartbraingames.com seems to have come up with the first out-of-the-box system that will actually interface with existing games (as opposed to the usual, "use with our own crappy game" stance most of them take). However it is still expensive and is not yet configured for PC use.
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Nekokami Dragonfly
猫神
Join date: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 638
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06-28-2005 17:32
What we really need is a better SL interface to hook up whatever equipment we want to use, so we can support both existing HW and stuff people cobble together on their own. You folks have all voted for Prop: 203 - Support local devices beyond mouse and keyboard, right? It's got 80 votes so far, but it's still not even on the second page of proposals. neko
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Satchmo Prototype
eSheep
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,323
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06-28-2005 20:25
From: Komuso Tokugawa mmmm....getting zapped being plugged into a computer with electrodes attached to your skin might be one.
Heh this made me laugh, then start to wonder why we do it all the time where I work  Then I realized I'd take my chances with the 5V coming out of USB or the 9V coming from an external power source. http://dansdata.com/gz013.htm
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Silurius Pinkney
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 8
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06-29-2005 11:16
Wow, that's up to 103 votes now.
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Komuso Tokugawa
Registered User
Join date: 3 Mar 2005
Posts: 93
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06-29-2005 12:58
From: Silurius Pinkney Wow, that's up to 103 votes now. Please...spread the word 
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Nekokami Dragonfly
猫神
Join date: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 638
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06-29-2005 14:23
It's in the top 50 proposals... out of 420. We're going to need to at least double the votes to get the attention of LL, I think.
neko
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Silurius Pinkney
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 8
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06-29-2005 14:41
Okay, I've diverted all ten of my votes to this.
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Nekokami Dragonfly
猫神
Join date: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 638
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06-29-2005 20:17
I've scraped up three more. I do have a couple of other proposals that I also care about, but this is getting more votes than any of the others.
neko
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Komuso Tokugawa
Registered User
Join date: 3 Mar 2005
Posts: 93
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07-07-2005 16:10
I'll be talking about the IL project and Biofeedback interfaces in general at the upcoming Australian Indy Gamedev conference: http://www.free-play.org/An introduction to Biofeedback interfaces for games and instruments The Innerlife project is a loose collaborative project to integrate biofeedback sensors into the MMOE (Massive Mulitplayer Online Environment) Second Life. Demo the windows communication client for the WildDivine Lightstone interface and some multiplayer events/minigames using it at the teams project area on an Island Sim IL Tavarua. In addition to sending bio data to the game environment the client also acts as a sonifier of the players bio data by producing a real time ambient soundscape via a software synthesis engine. Also working on standalone bio games/instruments.
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Satchmo Prototype
eSheep
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,323
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07-07-2005 18:28
From: Komuso Tokugawa I'll be talking about the IL project and Biofeedback interfaces in general at the upcoming Australian Indy Gamedev conference: http://www.free-play.org/An introduction to Biofeedback interfaces for games and instruments Sweet... Good News... Congrats!!!
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