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I saw some First Land today!

Reverend Herzog
Registered User
Join date: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 111
03-18-2007 17:08
Guy Linden was setting 512s that formerly would have been First Land to public sale for L$512 each, while one of the bot owners was standing nearby having a grand old time while his landbots grabbed them all.

I sure find it comforting that Linden Lab is taking such efforts to make sure the land isn't being gamed by one person! YAY LL!
Aurora Bourgue
Registered User
Join date: 1 Oct 2006
Posts: 1
03-18-2007 17:32
It doesn't seem fair to take away first land because of alts just to allow bots...which are technically alts to get the government linden land and all other inexpensive land that comes up. Seems to me like its the same problem just a diffrent swing on it. I just pray all this mess ends so that things can return to a more peaceful and happier state.
Nobody Fugazi
Registered User
Join date: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 115
That's just dumb.
03-18-2007 17:41
I cannot believe how reckless LL was on that. They *know* about the bots.

Very, very, VERY sad.
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
03-18-2007 18:07
I wonder what happened to the plan to set these plots for sale to neighboring plot owners for "first refusal"?
Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
03-18-2007 18:10
From: someone
I cannot believe how reckless LL was on that. They *know* about the bots.
Reckless? First Land is over. Setting up parcels at L$1/m is begining to sound a whole lot like the insider scandal where EVE employees were gaming the system for the benefit of their friends. If this is true it is worse than sad.
_____________________
Annabelle Vandeverre
Heading back to Real Life
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 609
03-18-2007 19:14
From: Argent Stonecutter
I wonder what happened to the plan to set these plots for sale to neighboring plot owners for "first refusal"?


I recently got a 512 lot for $512 along a sim edge because I owned land on two sides of it. I had to ask for it, though, and wait a couple of weeks for a response. I suggest if anyone out there has small Linden-owned lots next to them that they do the same.

It astounds me that LL says they are working on solving the bot 'problem' to the people who complain (which they don't think is really a problem) but then turns around and gives land directly to whoever has the fastest bot for $1/sq.m. I mean, between that and limiting the number of hits a user can make on the search database in a period of time, that's flat out endorsing the use of bots.
_____________________
I am returning to my real life for personal reasons this summer. My store, $50 or less @ Annabelle's Garden and Home Decor, is now closed. Thank you to my customers for making my store successful in the short time I've been here. Get this before the bots do: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Nefrax/153/156/40
Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
03-18-2007 19:50
From: Argent Stonecutter
I wonder what happened to the plan to set these plots for sale to neighboring plot owners for "first refusal"?


LL has stated "Landbots have created an unfair land market", yet last Wednesday (less than two days after this quote) they throttled the search mode to favor bots and discourage residents from finding cheap land.

This kind of misrepresentation, clearly indicates involvement with land bots by someone connected to LL staff, which is highly suspect, whether on or off duty.

The old system of selling surplus land to the general public at 1/sq.m. is a sham. The only benefactors of this failed policy, are the bots.

Everyone who missed first land, ought to scream bloody murder by this ridiculous policy.

LL oughtright lied, the bots are getting filthy rich at your expense, people. LL refuses to see it's own corruption.
_____________________
Macphisto Angelus
JAFO
Join date: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 5,831
03-18-2007 19:57
Come on people.. if you want to get to the bottom of this it is quite easy.

*goes to Linden answers area* oh crap, this is closed. Let me go to the other one
*goes to Land Questions* Crap, that is closed too?? Maybe someone will know in general..
*goes to General* Closed again??
*goes to blog where there is no where to post a question on that subject* What nothing about land bots on the blog at all?

Hmm.. I guess we will just have to speculate here without a official channel to ask on this forum in. :(

:confused:
_____________________
From: Natalie P from SLU
Second Life: Where being the super important, extra special person you've always been sure you are (at least when you're drunk) can be a reality!


From: Ann Launay
I put on my robe and wizard ha...
Oh. Nevermind then.
Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
03-19-2007 01:43
From: someone
Hmm.. I guess we will just have to speculate here without a official channel to ask on this forum in. :(
You forget about [email=support@secondlife.com]support@secondlife.com[/email] which is always answered in a timely, accurate, and authoritative manner.
_____________________
Macphisto Angelus
JAFO
Join date: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 5,831
03-19-2007 02:08
From: Malachi Petunia
You forget about [email=support@secondlife.com]support@secondlife.com[/email] which is always answered in a timely, accurate, and authoritative manner.



Thanks for reminding me! I have been sitting here on hold with the phone line since I posted. Now I can fire off an email and see which comes through first. :D
_____________________
From: Natalie P from SLU
Second Life: Where being the super important, extra special person you've always been sure you are (at least when you're drunk) can be a reality!


From: Ann Launay
I put on my robe and wizard ha...
Oh. Nevermind then.
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
03-19-2007 04:03
From: Annabelle Vandeverre
I recently got a 512 lot for $512 along a sim edge because I owned land on two sides of it. I had to ask for it, though, and wait a couple of weeks for a response. I suggest if anyone out there has small Linden-owned lots next to them that they do the same.
Interesting. I have done that in the past, but more recently requests to buy small adjacent parcels have been ignored... and, yes, we have waited more than "mere weeks.
Annabelle Vandeverre
Heading back to Real Life
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 609
03-19-2007 06:01
From: Argent Stonecutter
Interesting. I have done that in the past, but more recently requests to buy small adjacent parcels have been ignored... and, yes, we have waited more than "mere weeks.


I might have gotten a relatively speedy response because the parcel didn't have autoreturn set and there was a bunch of junk on it, so I sent multiple emails to LL begging them to either set autoreturn so it didn't fill up any more, or just sell it to me so I could do it. Or because I owned land on two sides of it, and of the two remaining sides, one was in another sim (on the edge) and the other was for sale.

Good luck getting yours. If they release it for general sale - well, if it goes to the Land Ninjas, Elanthius will likely give you a good deal on it. Don't know about these new bot owners. Sucks though that they don't just offer them automatically to the adjacent land owners any more.
_____________________
I am returning to my real life for personal reasons this summer. My store, $50 or less @ Annabelle's Garden and Home Decor, is now closed. Thank you to my customers for making my store successful in the short time I've been here. Get this before the bots do: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Nefrax/153/156/40
Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
03-19-2007 06:45
From: Annabelle Vandeverre
I might have gotten a relatively speedy response because the parcel didn't have autoreturn set and there was a bunch of junk on it, so I sent multiple emails to LL begging them to either set autoreturn so it didn't fill up any more, or just sell it to me so I could do it. Or because I owned land on two sides of it, and of the two remaining sides, one was in another sim (on the edge) and the other was for sale.

Good luck getting yours. If they release it for general sale - well, if it goes to the Land Ninjas, Elanthius will likely give you a good deal on it. Don't know about these new bot owners. Sucks though that they don't just offer them automatically to the adjacent land owners any more.



Elanthius will give you a good deal? What is a good deal about buying land from the governor at 1/sqm then reselling it to a neighbor at 10/sqm, when LL went against their own policy of awarding land to adjacent parcel owners?

LL might as well layoff Guy Linden and set all the land to the bots for all the good the current land policy is worth. The usual double standard at LL is laughable. They discontinued allowing abandoned land to go public, because they claimed it was unfair, yet on the other hand, take away first land and offer everything to the bots at 1/sq is far worse than unfair, it's downright corrupt. LL outright lies about claiming "Landbots have created an unfair land market" then did precisely the opposite by throttling the search mode, effectively eliminating the possibilty of anyone competing with bots.

We have bots, proclaiming to be off duty Lindens, bypassing Abuse reports and having other Lindens remove legitimate scripts at their behest, running multiple bots (more than maximum allowable number per household), running bots before Open Source, ninja repricing land, hiding groups to avoid appeals, laundering money to get around LindeX, smug and abusive comments and perpetuating a climate of hatred toward livelyhoods destroyed. Elanthius seems to think anyone who doesn't run a bot is "stupid"as he repeatedly states in these forums and at the hate filled disturbances he creates in-world.

If Elanthius sold the land at 2/sqm it would be too much, because you just doubled a greedy person's revenue. There are no deals from these people. It's all ill gotten gain, on the backs of new residents who wanted first land, residents who would like to find a bargain and land barons with client needs.

100% of underpriced land going to exclusively to 3 people is patently unfair, unethical and has undermined community, competition and value.
_____________________
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
03-19-2007 07:42
From: Annabelle Vandeverre
I might have gotten a relatively speedy response because the parcel didn't have autoreturn set and there was a bunch of junk on it, so I sent multiple emails to LL begging them to either set autoreturn so it didn't fill up any more, or just sell it to me so I could do it. Or because I owned land on two sides of it, and of the two remaining sides, one was in another sim (on the edge) and the other was for sale.
I had the same problem, but they just set autoreturn instead. :(
Neal McAlpine
Registered User
Join date: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 33
03-19-2007 08:53
Yes *sighs* being an alpha tester for Linden Labs takes a tremendous amount of forbearance. I haven't noticed any masochistic tendency on myself so far, but what other could be the reason that I even pay for this very early very unstable experiment?
Annabelle Vandeverre
Heading back to Real Life
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 609
03-19-2007 09:01
From: Weedy Herbst
Elanthius will give you a good deal? What is a good deal about buying land from the governor at 1/sqm then reselling it to a neighbor at 10/sqm, when LL went against their own policy of awarding land to adjacent parcel owners?


What I mean is, a better deal than not getting any chance to buy it at all, which apparently is currently the case with most Linden-owned small lots that sit vacant for months and months, or having to deal with another bot owner that might use the opportunity to try some extortion tactics rather than sell it at market price. So the one good thing about LL's stupid actions is that at least the land is available. Even though there are a lot of drawbacks, obviously, that I don't need to rehash here.

The saddest thing out of all of this, though, is that through their actions, Linden Labs has ensured that the only people who can possibly buy the 512 lots formerly known as 'first land' for $512 anymore are people who already own land, either through use of a bot on the open market or through direct sale by virtue of already owning the adjacent land.

Was there a meeting that went something like this? Hmm, people who already own land are abusing the first land system. How can we fix it? Let's eliminate first land, and only sell the lots at that price to people who already own land! Yes, brilliant!
_____________________
I am returning to my real life for personal reasons this summer. My store, $50 or less @ Annabelle's Garden and Home Decor, is now closed. Thank you to my customers for making my store successful in the short time I've been here. Get this before the bots do: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Nefrax/153/156/40
My Blankes
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 12
this is suppose to be a people power game ...so...
03-21-2007 08:24
it is a damn shame regarding the first land and as usual it is the greedy "hoods" who ruin it for the rest of us. But what I am finding even more agravating lately is when you buy some land to turn into a modest profit in a nice residential area and along comes these cowboys who buy the 512 block next to you and then subdivide it into 32 blocks of 16 sq m and put a price on it like 9K for each. Not only are they being greedy, but they are turning the neigghborhood into a advertising farm and devalueing my land and the land owners around it. For purposes of security and ease of landing zones you cannot ban or outlaw small subdivisions, However it should be that for purposes other than security it is illegal to subdivide a 512 block into 32 blocks or even 16 blocks. with the devalueing of the surrounding land it should also now be looked at as a violation of TOS.
Reverend Herzog
Registered User
Join date: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 111
03-21-2007 08:34
From: My Blankes
it is a damn shame regarding the first land and as usual it is the greedy "hoods" who ruin it for the rest of us. But what I am finding even more agravating lately is when you buy some land to turn into a modest profit in a nice residential area and along comes these cowboys who buy the 512 block next to you and then subdivide it into 32 blocks of 16 sq m and put a price on it like 9K for each. Not only are they being greedy, but they are turning the neigghborhood into a advertising farm and devalueing my land and the land owners around it. For purposes of security and ease of landing zones you cannot ban or outlaw small subdivisions, However it should be that for purposes other than security it is illegal to subdivide a 512 block into 32 blocks or even 16 blocks. with the devalueing of the surrounding land it should also now be looked at as a violation of TOS.


Check out the Clocktower Project at http://blacklist.npl.com/. We're fighting to end such land cutting.
Darien Caldwell
Registered User
Join date: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,127
03-21-2007 12:22
I've seen this Clocktower site mentioned before, but when I go there is no information about what it is or what its for. Just a login page. Perhaps some more information might lead myself and others to go through the hassle of creating an account.
James Gill
Registered User
Join date: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 14
03-21-2007 23:58
From: Darien Caldwell
I've seen this Clocktower site mentioned before, but when I go there is no information about what it is or what its for. Just a login page. Perhaps some more information might lead myself and others to go through the hassle of creating an account.


My apologies for the lack of information provided. Initially we were very focused on keeping everything in-world, but as it is the web is just a superior way for group collaboration and communication. So I have revised the front page for non-logged in users with the following:

The Arbor Project is devoted to reclaiming ad sized (16M) Parcels throughout all of Second Life and have them rejoined at little or no cost to larger sized adjacent land.

The Clocktower Network is an effort to educate Citizens and all interested parties of the benefits of the reclamation efforts and the processes in which this is accomplished.

The Blacklist Is a last resort tool used to deny access globally to those who cut up parcels and turn them into ad farms. Since this tool has a very broad reach and is expanding by the hour in its coverage areas, Education is always our first policy.

The Clocktower blacklist network is a distributed blacklist system for use in the virtual world of Second Life. It allows a central repository of blacklisted avatars to be automatically distributed to any parcel in the world that has our network client (probe) installed on it.

The website is open to all members in Second Life to discuss these issues, additionally any registered user can submit cutters to the blacklist for moderator approval.

To Create an account or find out more information please visit our infohub in-world at secondlife://pero/185/158/107. You can pick up the clocktower kit which includes a registration pass to login to this website and access additional information.

You can also contact James Gill or Xerses Goff in-world with any questions regarding this service.
Nefertiti Nefarious
Registered User
Join date: 5 Oct 2006
Posts: 135
03-22-2007 07:06
From: My Blankes
Not only are they being greedy, but they are turning the neigghborhood into a advertising farm and devalueing my land and the land owners around it.


IM me in SL and I can give you some really nice, low-prim ad-blocking scenic panels.
Darien Caldwell
Registered User
Join date: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,127
03-22-2007 12:54
From: James Gill
My apologies for the lack of information provided. Initially we were very focused on keeping everything in-world, but as it is the web is just a superior way for group collaboration and communication. So I have revised the front page for non-logged in users with the following:

The Arbor Project is devoted to reclaiming ad sized (16M) Parcels throughout all of Second Life and have them rejoined at little or no cost to larger sized adjacent land.

The Clocktower Network is an effort to educate Citizens and all interested parties of the benefits of the reclamation efforts and the processes in which this is accomplished.

The Blacklist Is a last resort tool used to deny access globally to those who cut up parcels and turn them into ad farms. Since this tool has a very broad reach and is expanding by the hour in its coverage areas, Education is always our first policy.

The Clocktower blacklist network is a distributed blacklist system for use in the virtual world of Second Life. It allows a central repository of blacklisted avatars to be automatically distributed to any parcel in the world that has our network client (probe) installed on it.

The website is open to all members in Second Life to discuss these issues, additionally any registered user can submit cutters to the blacklist for moderator approval.

To Create an account or find out more information please visit our infohub in-world at secondlife://pero/185/158/107. You can pick up the clocktower kit which includes a registration pass to login to this website and access additional information.

You can also contact James Gill or Xerses Goff in-world with any questions regarding this service.



Thanks for the additional information. I agree that 16 meter parcels are an incredibly useless blight on the landscape of SL. Good to know there are concerned residents trying to do something about it.
Nobody Fugazi
Registered User
Join date: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 115
Well, there are two sets of Community Standards.
03-23-2007 15:08
In all of this (mind you, I've read the entire thread with interest), there are two apparent community standards. There are the standards which are written down and accompanies by a ToS, and then there are the actual *community* standards.

The difference between the two is making people upset, as well it should. Perhaps we should invite the Lindens to a Town Hall. Sure, they man not show up. But there's nothing stopping us from having the town hall.

We don't need elected officials. What we need is a common voice. Start loading sims with people who don't like certain things, and maybe they'll pay attention. Just keep things civil, within the written ToS, and be cool.

No orbiting of Lindens, et al. :-)
Draco18s Majestic
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 2,744
03-23-2007 15:26
From: Nobody Fugazi
No orbiting of Lindens, et al. :-)


Noob: "What are Linden Dollars and how do I get them?"
Me, being particularly cruel and evil: "Find someone with the last name of "Linden" and shoot them."

Ok, so I actually yoinked that from someone else and have never actually done it. Stated for purposes of humor only.
VooDoo Bamboo
www.voodoodesignsllc.com
Join date: 4 Oct 2006
Posts: 911
03-23-2007 20:16
Ok I am going to throw my 2 cents in on this as this is really getting old. These people are right. Its not fair at all for what first land was designed for. I myself as long as I have been on SL now have never... I repeat, NEVER bought land. All I do is rent. The reason, I did at one time plan to buy land... Got a prem account and all and for what? Like they said, land never shows up and when it does people cheat to get it before real new people who want to buy first land can. So I canceled the damn prem account. Why pay monthly for something I can never get!

The solution....
LEARN FROM YAHOO™ LINDENS!
Yahoo chat has been nailed with every kind of bot system you can think of over the past 10 years. Its been a playground for "script kiddies" running wild. There are a TON of ways to prevent bot system and other items that these ass clowns create to cause issues in a system where people gather. The first and BEST way to do it....

One word for you.... IP!

I know you guys must track IP's. Therefore, when somebody creates a "bot" or "bots" you should be able to track that and block their I.P. Even if they were to create these bots, alts whatever someplace else chances are these morons using these things would still log them all in from the same computer. Now if they use dialup this could get tricky however we all know there is no way anyone on SL is using dialup :-)

Now ask youself, what if they use a proxy to get around that? I say GOOD LUCK! To be honest this is an advatage SL has right now. The very thing that everybody compaines about could be put to use to help stop some of this bot and alt crap. "SYSTEM RESOURCES" required for SL. There is NO WAY that SL would work worth a crap going through a list full of proxies that most script kiddies will just get off the internet anyway.

So again I go back to what I said... The I.P. Simple... Very simple. The question is... Will SL really do anything about this and start enforcing some of this stuff?

Lidens do your research on Yahoo's issues they have had. You will find a ton of valued information on some of the issues your starting to have in here.
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