Sell Out

I don't post often so bare with me if my witty comments and literal remarks are sub-par to those seasoned forum warriors of justice. Also I know it's long but it's two years in the making.

Over two years ago I began playing SL. At the time it was just something different and interesting from the FPS I was used to hoarding hours over. After exploring a bit and meeting some interesting people I began to grow accustomed to coming home each day, logging on, and living my second life. For about a year in the 2004 - 2005 area SL was great, only minor glitches with graphics and random REAL grievers of scripting talent.

Then 2005 - 2006 there was a shift in the normal SL to what is now what I like to refer to as the Dumbing down of the cyber community.

I mark these events with the following major (for me) events in SL history.

-The take over of the Linden dollar exchange.
-The Killing of the 1L rating system.
-Raising of the Personal Sim price.
-Free Accounts

These seem like small changes that many of you might say, "Stop crying and move on." This would be true if you look at it in a small perspective. I see this as the time LL turned SL from a community driven environment into a more commercial business based off goals set to achieve more money at the cost of loyal, yet talented SL players that lack funds to support the "Cost of living increase."

Once again you might say to yourself, "Rubbish! They had to do that!" The basic greeting in the old SL was to rate someone, this broke the ice sort of speak on most conversations and created small communities out of sheer randomness.

The buying and selling of lindens from a 3rd party allowed the users, themselves to regulate trade in SL based on the buying and selling at a certain time. This now controlled by LL. The company producing the money have god like power over the economy in general. Not saying they manipulate the economy for themselves because I do believe they do keep most of it fair.

Free accounts....the nail in the coffin...as I am told. This was the absolute worst thing LL could have done for the life of this game. Verification anyone? WOW kind of strange no one wanted verification years before this hmmm....

Today was my personal LAST STRAW. A group, that was made strictly for fun back in 2004 called Linden's Most Wanted was changed to Virtual Most Wanted. Was the group creator told? No...Was anyone told in the group? No...I was going to say something about no one cares about old players here but some old players kiss ass so much to SL they pay a small attention to them. I am not one of these.

LL do add new features which are pretty interesting....but what about things promised two years ago...Attention is diverted always from physics and graphics optimization to dumbing down SL to appease the slower SL player to buy anatomically correct parts for their avatar.

Over the past year my SL has turned from the fun of logging in an manipulating prims then talking with some friends to wondering what aspect of my SL have LL raped today.

I guess I should not call it my SL anymore anyway. LL's SL I just log on there.

The point of this post is.... (I know you were wondering)
Linden Labs, you started this game as something that would be unlike anything else. Try not to create something just like everyone else. Keep your roots. Don't change the world so much of us have grown to love to something that we now love to hate.

Will Linden Labs change anything to appease an old player as myself and many others must feel should be done. No probably not. But for myself, I had to get the words out about something I spent almost 3 years of my life on.

If I stand alone with my feelings on the old ways of SL I am sorry I waisted your time, but if you belive that the old days of SL have long since past and long for those more enjoyable times please tell me what you think.

To LL, Why did you feel it necessary to change a game based on ideas and creativity of those who played to a marketing platform for those who follow only a strict quideline and pay their way through life? Why did you make SL more like RL?

Have a good SL.....or not.

(Forgive me please for grammar and spelling mistakes you can take them up with me in-game...If the freaking friends list would actually show who was online.....)

Akari Armitage

I agree with the OP.


Also, I've noticed several groups with "linden" in the title so I'm wondering why LL bothered to change the name of this one.

You really said a mouthful that sums up the state of a totally different and more complex and confusing game. I am 2 months younger then you but I can understand you feeling behind those remarks.

I was hatched when Rates were 5L, the game was much different in its views of repecting it members but LLABS people. Now look,can`t personally IM lindens for issues, can`t get LH anymore ( well near the end the people llabs put in LH were just friends and kiss A@@s of llabs so there was no real help anyways). But the biggest issue is the commuity in a whole is so so far apart with the lack of leadership within llabs. I never though Sl would be such a hatedful and racist place if i projected years in the future.

So long as anyone continues to choose to use this incredibly offensive, tech-elitist term, they will continue to lose any hope they ever had of engendering either polite attention or sympathy and understanding from the non-technical-motivated users of Second Life (or anything else technically-oriented), or from anyone who doesn't live hunched over a keyboard staring at codes in real life!

I feel badly that it took you two years to reach the point of feeling the need to communicate your angst, but I don't even know what your issues are, because I stopped reading at this sentence...I invite you to apologize and revamp expression of your thoughts in a way that is appropriate to your audience...Peace Out

One can only hope that you truly are in Japan, for here in the United States, making a practice of putting these sorts of allegations in print, unless one has solid factual evidence, is taking oneself down a path that costs more than just Linden dollars...

I figured this thread would attract all the fanboi LL fans. Parsimony bends the context of Akari's words then acts offended by words like "dumb-down".

Your psudeo intellectual attack on Akari and your request for apology is exactly what is wrong with SL and these forums.

LL owes the apology not Akari.




Fixed.

*claps*

He calls it like he sees it, sorry you don't agree.

I've not been in SL that long, only 8 months or so. But The trend he sees follows the trend I see in RL society. I.E. making everything for dummies. There's even a series of books called that. Instead people should be getting smarter, not expecting to be coddled in their ignorance. I agree with the O.P.

Given the choice of certain death by stagnation,
or uncertain death by attempts at evolution...
LL, obviously, took the second path.

Sure SecondLife could have been a much smaller,
more refined and polished version of what it was
some four years ago.

It probably wouldn't scale. It would be run like
some popular club that refuses to let new people
in until old people have departed.

It is doubtful that LL and SecondLife would have
survived to today without LL's hype and expansionistic
plans. They would have had insufficient outside
funding and too small a subscriber base to stay
in business.

Life is change.

Hmm...

I've only been playing SL for about a year and a half now. I wasn't here when it first started, I had heard about it though. A friend of mine showed it to me back in 2004, said he was interested in trying it, but that it cost. He wanted to know if I was willing to try it out with him. I told him no, I didn't think it was worth the cost.

So a year or so ago I found it again, through a friend, who recommended that I try it out. "Oh, but doesn't that game cost?" She told me it didn't, so I thought... What the hell, why not.

For a lot of people the ten bucks or however much it was to have an account a month wasn't anything, but it was to me. I could spend that money on a game that I felt had a point, that had a purpose in the end. Keep in mind, at the time all I knew about Second Life was what I saw. From the outside looking in. If I went back knowing what I know now I would have gladly paid the fee for an account, as I am in love with SL now.

But then? Not a chance. It seemed like a complete waste of money. And a lot of people probably see it that way. Anyone in my RL I ever try to get interested in it think it's a sex-crazed virtual pornocopia, where degenerates and sickoes go to hang out and peddle their furry sex.

Granted, not having free accounts would cut out a HUGE portion of the griefing population, the idiots, and the people that most just generally don't want to deal with. But there are a LOT of really awesome people who go around to this day with no payment info on file. A lot of really great people with free basic accounts. I'm a premium account now, but when I sell my land I plan on downgraded back to free, and will mostly stay as such unless Linden's decide to change that. I don't see having the ability to create a free account as a bad thing, on the contrary, I think it's a great thing. No, it's not the best thing to have griefers everywhere you turn. But I probably never would have found this... Never would have had this great experience that is my Second Life, if it had not been for that fact, and I know I am not the only one.

Dumbing down is offensive, inflammatory thread titles like "Sell Out" are designed to attract everyone's attention, not just the inner tech sanctum...

And, this one time, in my own defense, please, search other threads I am on...you really need to read more threads...after that, if you still are confused...ask any Linden if I am their fanboy, I don't think you'll get the answer you think you know. I am happy to discuss, debate, etc. but only if we agree to stick to facts, not empty accusations intended to engender knee-jerk reactions that distract everyone else from a fair chance at constructive conversation!

Also, flames only burn the person holding the match...and if you want the support of the masses, speak to the masses with positivity, which does not degrade your own message...the masses, which is not just those with birthdates before 2006 anymore, sorry.

Pets are fixed, not people, though the idea does have merit (J/k)

Oh, and for what it's worth, I DO very much agree with the OP on several points...but if you want to fix it, don't alienate those that would join with you...that's all...I think the fix is to SMART UP the user community...by finding ways everyone can talk relevantly about the issues...entirely possible, though it may be tough to accept that change...and two groups hold the power...

One which has not been very good at listening to our requests for common language, and the other, as in the OP, viewing everyone without a prior certification in IT/programming/tech as "dumb"...now I ask you...would you come to me for help with your advanced biology/medical questions if I started the conversation with "dumb programmer"??? All I ask is that you think about it...noone is coming to anyone for help who considers them stupid/dumb, know what I mean? And if not those of you who HAVE been here from the beginning, then who DO you want us to go to?

If I come to you with an advanced biology question and don't understand the answer (having little to no background in biology) what do you do?

As the one with the background and knowledge, it is my responsibility to communicate the concepts I need to get across that will communicate useful information to you...unless I am willing to wait eight years for you to gain professional equality with me. But equally important, it is my responsibility as a decent human being to do so in such a way that your learning is not gained at the expense of your dignity...I gain nothing of value by humiliating anyone simply because of differing background


((Addendum:...this is something we call "explaining treatment options in layman's terms". Also, we find that those who are best qualified to do their own work are those who are capable of effectively communicating the complexities of their work, and of their work related challenges and needs, on any level spanning groups from kindergarten classes all the way up through colleagues whose expertise in our field far surpasses our own))

And I maintain that use of 'that phrase' is a matter of choice, not necessity...there are a plentitude of equally-brief, equally-accurate (and far preferrable) ways to communicate the same concept.

Was I personally offended? Perhaps yes, perhaps no...I thought the underlying concepts in the OP, however, were worthy of reading by many more than the small sector the OP targetted...and was hoping that the wording would be changed to allow even non-techs to engage this problem, which BTW we are dealing with in other threads, without needing to substantially alienate an entire group...

And "SMART UP" = educate

A message put into lay-person's terms often loses detail, clarity and usefulness.

At some point, it becomes the responsibility of the concerned residents to meet LL part-way so that they they can share and understand common terms, premises and issues.

I hope we can all remember that the next time anyone we know needs the care of a medical specialist, you need expensive work done on your car (or computer), or need to have your house re-wired or re-roofed...and the maximum clarity that CAN be achieved is equally important to all, unless you want to be refusing essential treatments, driving a dangerous car, or living under a leaky roof.

It does require effort from both sides...but it is a sad fact that the uninitiated will never make progress in learning at a pace sufficient to stave off the frustration of those waiting...the most important contribution of the learned just might be patience, and willingness to take some small steps that may seem largely meaningless to them, but which to the student are hugely reassuring (that the effort IS of shared importance to all).

I truly believe we ARE making progress, on both fronts, and in finding tools that everyone can contribute to and share: /341/dc/184884/1.html

Lest we forget, if everyone is a competent LSL-er, texturer, builder, IT-tech in SL...where is the market for your intellectual property? The functional core of SL is not the technology, but the LindEx...if we ever lose sight of that, we sign the death warrant. Second Life without the low-to-mid-tech-level merchant class is not self-sustaining, and is doomed to failure.

Did you mean "merchant" class or "consumer" class? =)

When a medical specialist, mechanic or contractor starts trotting out the high-handed terms and big price tags.... I get second opinion from someone else... and ask google.

As it was ment to be, do you think the OP was directed to LL tech support only?



Like I want to read your post history fanboi. I have better shit to do than subject myself to another sentence using the word enjender.

My post was a reply to your post. Don't flatter yourself and think I was expecting somekind of knee-jerk reaction. I could care less what you think.



Trust me on this. Your style of communication absolutly does not foster support from the masses. My fingers feel fine btw.



The OP's list was fixed by adding your name to it. It's a list of thing's wrong with SL. Many agree the idea does have merit.



If you were alienated by the OP then that's your hangup. There was nothing said that wasn't preached a hundred times in these forums already. The person had something to say and they said it. It wasn't a plea for help or your critial feedback on how to woo the masses.



Good lord dude. Have you ever read your own shit? You'er giving tips on how to post?

-

somewhere in this thread i saw something about meeting LL half way.

My question is how can we do that when there is no way to contact them. I have been trying all weekend to speak to someone regarding several bugs that have appeared since the last "UPGRADE". The new help system is so unwieldy and complicated it is useless. I went round and round in circles trying to find a way to report a fault.

At the end of the day not all SL users may be full account holders but they do spend RL money using the system. This makes them paying customers and as such they deserve to have a product that is fit for purpose. As the originator of this thread points out LL seem to have forgotten its original concept and firmly placed itself in the profit making queue.

I say lets get a product that works well before trying to make any further changes. Glitz is nice to see but rarely does it have a useful purpose

That was me. And it was in response to Parsimony's desire for LL to talk to us more like non-techie humans instead of treating us like tech-savvy IT-Geeks.

People want better service, performance, and quality out of secondlife. Some think the way to get better from LL is by rabidly frothing at the mouth and posting inarticulate "wtf! SL iz teh lagbeazt! U fix! Nu featurez sux0rs! y do i pay u 4 bugz!?" complaints, thinking that helps anyone in anyway.

Articulate, reproducible reports of problems and bugs ARE the way to "meet LL half-way". Anything less is likely to be ignored, and deservedly so. LL is busy enough without having to play mind reader to guess at what we're complaining about.

Paying money doesn't absolve us of making any effort to understand LL or be understood by them.

I admit, I haven't tried the new help system... I'm certain there are problems with it, and I hope they get those resolved soon. There's still Jira, and the current version feedback forum.

Revitalized, renewed, whatever...

@Flavian...hmmmm. Moral of the story, my view, with more years spent in RL working with executives, technicians and administrators than you may or may not have had in RL period (not that it matters): Nice breeds nice, doesn't matter who you're dealing with...you can view it as "fanning" or "kissing ass" or whatever...

Everyone hears the hatemonger, but nobody listens...the very concept that I, or anyone, might be offended by a post becomes offensive to a third party? Can you say social disconect? The edit to the OP made the point brilliantly, simply by adding my name to his list, BTW...and all without resorting to namecalling or becoming foul-mouthed, too (-8 I really looked forward to good discussions with him, when I mistook the edit for his, and HE was the one I addressed that comment to...sorry...and for the reference to "knee-jerk" which was obviously completely wasted on hasty incomplete reading.

Anyhow, thank you for yet another boring non-sequitur hate-rant from the relative safety of a virtual shield...I just kept waiting for any rational or logical response at any time to any points raised...been there, seen the personality (?) type, for years and years of internet time (I was there when Al Gore invented internet, baby...can you say Apple II?) before you ever first clicked a mouse, never changes, never will.

I'll be happy to take another look at anything I've said to/about Linden that seems to you to be unrealistically positive, if that somehow makes your hatefulness more tolerable to you...or to discuss the finer points of effective communication.

Anyone else for moving on???

All yours, dude, I am done with this...my hope is that you do find some avenue within (or without) Second Life, that somehow doesn't reduce anyone else's experience, to work through your anger issues, but it isn't me...live long and prosper.

I agree with you, Rusty. I also haven't given the new system a real road test yet. To be honest, I have tried, and don't seem to be effectively navigating. That IS in large part my lack of technical experience with systems like the JIRA.

To be clear, I don't want Linden to devaluate the technical input of the wizard-like users by downgrading language, that WOULD be stupid, wouldn't it? But I do think there are a lot of folks out there whose observations of bugs may be important, and being overlooked, simply because of language differences, and lack of effort in providing useful context.

We don't need a degree in IT or programming to know (or be able to describe) FUBAR's when we see them...and if I see it at 3am your time, well, it could be fixed before you ever log on if I can be heard by the grid-team. That way, it's mostly/all fixed right away...or we can all wait around until someone who IS an IT/programmer expert accidentally teleports to where I was 6 hours ago when I gave up and logged off.

Is it just possible that the atmosphere of "not listening" to those who aren't 100% tech-certified is what IS hampering timely response, timely repair, and also reducing the volume of input they DO need to make quality improvements?

My bad...and a good catch...yes, "consumer class" makes my point...and though the WIKI is great, it looks like it will be virtually (strike that...practically) impossible for that project to catch up until the rate of development slows some, don't you think? I think the questions remains "what do we do in the meantime?" The thing that concerns me is that, for now, we are stuck with your high-handed contractor, but once there is a "second opinion" available, then I suspect common sense leads you to STAY with the guy you can understand and therefore trust, and then SL just becomes another obsolete "other guy"...which I'd rather avoid.

a different spin, sort of from that other thread:

Keep in mind that while non-techie types may now outnumber the more tech-savvy types, the tech-savvy types in secondlife still far out-number the staff at linden lab.

If a non-techie is having trouble determining whether something should be reported as a bug... or as a support request.... rather than just screaming "ez brok! u feex!" it would probably be more effective for them to enlist the help of a more technical friend to at least find a way to describe the problem in terms that LL can take action on.

Of course, in some cases, the tech-savvy friend might reveal to them that the fault isn't with SL or LL, but them's the breaks.

Mhmm, to all this...mhmmm, I see your point, and makes total sense...and for me, being more experience-quality oriented, less tech-oriented, I am quite happy to have anyone point out to me that I am the FUBAR, so long as I get some help getting it fixed AND I can be made to understand how to fix it next time on my own, too (-:

Thanks Rusty!

1. "Dumbing down" is not a tech-specific phrase in the least. Nor was it used that way by the O.P.

2. I wish they would not change group names and even PEOPLE'S names arbitrarily and inconsistently, and, worst of all, without even bothering to tell them they have, or explain why.

But they do.

3. When they made LL free, of course we got a lot of people who would otherwise not be here.

But that would be true of absolutely anything whatsoever. Doesn't mean that's necessarily a GOOD thing.

I once made the analogy of a restaurant, where the owner decided to give away all the food. If you paid a fee, you could have a table, but anyone who wanted to could come in to eat for free - they just had to stand.

So what happened? Soon, everyone learned about this restaurant where the food was free. Everybody and his dog came there to eat, from near and far.

For those people who had paid and had a table guaranteed, pretty soon it became difficult to even find your table, and once there, you got elbows in the face.

The restaurant itself was so overwhelmed with all these people, the paying customers also could no longer get their food on time, or necessarily what they ordered, or even anything at all! And you could never find a waiter.

Most of the people who came there to eat for free had a meal or two, but never came back, because the place was so dysfunctional. But since the whole world had heard of this famous restaurant where the food was free, it was always crowded with new people.

The paying customers began to say to each other, "You know, this used to be a pleasant place to eat, but I'm beginning to wonder why I pay a fee to reserve a table here at all."

coco