Keep forests as forests, more land for people

Hello

I see that SL is almost fully built.

I want to buy some land, so I go and see really nice ads of brilliant nature lands with lots of trees. But if I go to some forest, then I see only houses and almost all the trees are cut down. Though some trees are still on land that has not yet been sold. But in general all land is bit by bit bought and built totally full. No more sceneries, because parcels are real next to each other tightly... I certainly would not buy a spot between other peoples backyards. It is common not to have even any roads separating houses.

In fact, people put up virtual virtual sceneries on their back yards, because there are no more virtual sceneries! Virtual virtual sceneries are prim walls that have pictures of sceneries on them. This happens because once tranquile forest now pops up big houses next to each other like mushrooms after rain.

Now, I wish that there were more woods and forests around the houses. Because there really is no point at all to buy land for a home from a forest if all the woods are cut down. So I suggest that there were unbuildable and unownable land between parcels. That way there would be more sceneries. (No prims either except trees, so it does not wreck server capacity.) Otherwise I would have to buy a whole region or two and build a little cottage there, if I wanted some peace.

Also I like the areas, where building is restricted so that only certain kinds of houses are allowed to be built. In those good places there are also some roads or such. I like houses like cottages, castles, caves, and such that melt into the scenery of nature. But in some areas my dream cannot come true, because the next day someone buys or has already bought land next to me, builds a modern disco or a bright neon blue skyscraper there with white yachts and so.

And my dream has the woods (read: big forests) there, too. I would buy as much land as is for sale, if I had the money. But it costs quite much real money, so I cannot afford. One island costs lots of a month. If I wanted lots of nice forests, I could buy ready made 3D role playing game and have an entire world for me only - with the money I spend in SL in two months in a house in a "forest". But I like SL more, because I can build myself and have friends... Some trade offs there, or what do you think?

Any comments from others, what do you think about? Is this only me who is used to big forests and cottages, or is SL too tightly built?

I agree with your feelings. However the ugly truth is most people can't buy large plots, and have to utilize what little they have to the fullest extent. When your prim count is limited, 'wasting' prims on trees is often the last thing people want to do. It's my personal opinion that many of the lots are just too small to be of any practical use. If there were an enforcable minimum size for lots this problem wouldn't exist. It mirrors the Real World in that developers in RL are also shrinking plot sizes to get more houses per acreage and maximize their profits. And LL wonders why people go to the Islands, it's to get away from the 512 m shanty towns on the mainland.

Have a look at Coonspiracy Central in the southwest corner of Noonkkot. Between the group's parcel and the people who've bought land in and around it more than half of the west side of the sim is open, with a few houses spotted here and there.

It's taken several months to put this together, and having a big swatch of protected land on the east side has really helped. Especially since land for sale around it has (unfortunately for us) tended to be higher priced than elsewhere in the sim. This "protected land" seems to make the resulting land more valuable.

So while the slightly smaller parcels that would result might seem to reduce the total value of the sim, I think that "green belts" would end up improving the value of the remaining parcels more than enough to compensate.

I bought a 512m2 parcel that has 10% land (including my bit) and the rest sea. I have what appears to be a beach in front of me, owned by LL, and have a great view. As you can imagine I am very happy. But i live in fear that the land in front of me will be developed. I've asked whether this is going to happen and I've been told that it's possible.

I share you concern. I think LL should designate certain areas as national parks and not allow any kind of development. Wouldn't it be cool to live next to a forrest, or a desert or even a supernatural landscape.

Argent Stonecutter, this protected land you talk about, has it been purchased by the locals? I think that's a great idea!

Hi! I checked Noonkkot area, and there really are some woods.

I think that if you can count the trees in an area, then that is a city or a suburb of some kind. Also, if you can see lonely areas of trees in a suburb, then that is still a city or a town for me. But when you see trees to the horizon, then thats a big forest. Ok, there is some room for other cottages in a big forest, too, but if there are buildings every where I look, then that is not any more a forest.

When I think about forests, I think like untouched jungles or vast ever green tree areas in Siperia or Canada. Or think about the mountains where are red hat wearing ranger guys and bears.

I understand, that some countries are built really tight and if there is a park somewhere, then people are awestruck because they have never seen as much trees at once. But for me that is nothing. In some countries you can drive a car 100 km/h for hours and not see a single house. Be it forests, mountains, or salt deserts. In most countries around here you would see few houses there, few here, though.

Now, I would like the cheap upkeep cost green belts between parcels, because that way it would at least create an illusion of a forest. Maybe that is possible in the future, when SL2 or SL3 comes out...

The point of protected land is that it *can't* be purchased.

I know it's not "forests as far as the eye can see", but it's not really a suburban area, either. The Coonspiracy is supposed to be reminiscent of backwoods Louisiana.

In my opinion, castles do not "melt into the scenery of nature," unless they are on a very large piece of land. Typically they are built right next to your house, towering over you in their vast ugliness. They instantly reduce your property value.

Think "covenants." That is what covenants protect against. Certainly in Dreamland, where there are height restrictions that keep folks from putting goliath structures on their land. Specifically, no building can be higher than twice the setback from the closest property line. AzureIslands has a 4 meter setback requirement for all buildings ... but no height limitation so no defense against castles. I think the Dreamland covenant is great, and would like to see it, or a variant of it, on all SL land.

Nick

Hello, Kratax Skillman...

Your post hit home. I once owned a respectable amount of land in SL, but what I could afford to maintain was never enough to preserve a sense of wilderness around me. I tried changing my focus and purchased land in a sim where Linden rules provided some order, at least. But I still cherished the wilderness aspect and tried again, several times, to find a spot where I might establish a naturalistic atmosphere. I didn't succeed - not for long, anyway.

Outside of purchasing an entire island, I now realize that I will never be able to create the kind of environment that I would like to enjoy in SL. Wherever I go, if I create a garden, the person next door creates a skyscraper, a club, or a mall, etc. Toward the last, I even tried taking an "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" approach, but it was too much like living in the real world.

I'm back to a basic account now, and seldom log in. Depending upon whether or not I receive a satisfactory answer to my billing question (I have been waiting a good three days now without a response), I may or may not stick around to see if the SL world in going to evolve in a direction that will leave room for shallow-pocketed odd ducks like me who don't want a pretend world to mirror the real one. *shrugs*

Covenants don't protect against anything: they are not a contract of any kind, because they're not binding on both parties. They're simply a notice of the rules that the estate owner has established and is enforcing... and these rules existed long before Linden Labs added this information field to the parcel window.

I completely agree with what you say *about* these rules, but it's the rules and not Linden Labs after-the-fact acknowledgement of them that's important.

People put up scenery posters, move to skyboxes, move to more spacious places if they can afford, or leave totally. Also covenant governed land tend to gain popularity.

I found from Flickr one picture that seems to resemble a some kind of a small trees forest. I think it is a great picture and shows that some one has succeeded in creating his own forest bit. (But if you look closer, I think he has just 1 tree and a poster wall.)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/genioleggero/317491004/in/pool-51035802764@N01

I admit, that in some great real life areas there indeed are houses next to each other, but those areas have forest next to them. So you won't end up in a land bit that gets surrounded by up to 8 houses around you. Of course it would be possible to organize virtual world so, that it is a enormously long line of houses that have woods and lakes on both sides of them. The real globe is square meters, but virtual world could be just what ever shape. The trade off comes, when you want virtual world be a world where you can walk around in main islands.

One thing is that other people like cities and others like forests. Could it be possible that in forests you get more land with fewer prims support with the same amount of upkeep money than in cities. In cities you would get less land with more prims support? That way city people could build skyscrapers and rent rooms for a night or for now, while forest people could enjoy their breathing space. Also, in forests you could not put up malls, which would reduce hovering ads in the middle of the fantasy creeks. And there could be like four areas: city, suburban, forest, and desert.

With desert I mean here normal rock deserts, but also grass and snow areas and jungles where live almost no people. There you could build only little, like a small cottage or two with a stable for a horse, campfire, and a totem pole. Then there could be vast deserts and forests, which would have two or three seemingly endless horse roads that would have a couple of inns and small wooden shops scattered along the road. It would take ages to walk through the vast nature like area, but that is the whole point here. Forests would be scattered with trees and rocks, so it would be difficult to drive a car there.

I'd like to think that we have accomplished just that on our new home in Azeroth. It took a huge amount of prims, a double lot and a lot of imagination but I think we've managed to create something beautiful...-including- a castle that blends in very well in enchanted -forest. If you ever want a look see send me an IM..the area is restricted to owners and guests only..but I'm very proud to show it off.

Thanks for the showing of your place. I think its nice looking and you have used lots of time landscaping and you have room for trees and a garden. Of course, there are also different colours of castles: Black, grey, and white are the most usual ones. I saw one castleyish grey winter house at Julia Hathor's place, and I think that kind of a house melts better than a black castle, unless you build into black mountains. The house is not a castle, but made of rocks and wood. But you have used lots of trees to make things look better and you have open sea next to you enhancing your feel of space.

And surely the bigger the building, the more land it needs around it to look like its not too tightly built. If you are an overlord of somekind, then its not looking good if you build your palace on a tiny bit of land. But if you have small land, then you can look good in it with a house that has also some kind of a garden. Many people that live in a multi floor building in a city do not even have a garden, so a garden of some kind makes you also look more rich.

This is why it's so great that I formed a landowning group and we collectively own half a sim. We purposely bought the land to preserve the lake located there, and we've since built it up as a woodsy place with lots of trees and nature.

There is one tiny plot on the lake that we don't own and some newbie recently bought it. Lucky guy, he knows the area around him (our land and Protected land) will remain pristine wilderness, as opposed to rolling the dice with First Land.

I use to have a large natural looking back yard with trees, and such..beutifull...problem was I owned the WHOLE sim....usually if some one wants nice soroundings a square 8120M lot or bigger is recomended, unless you happen to afford an edge of world lot, on the ocean, which produce very nice tropical back drops.

90% of islands look like mainland..bunch of squares with buildings on them =-/

way back when, there use to be Telehubs, and a ton of linden builds/preserves in SL...a while ago Lindens took down most of the info hubs, and sold off a LOT of Linden Land. One of the most notable sell offs was the areas were the great wall was suposto continue...as far as road building, it's anyone's guess..I havent seen anythign new as far as Linden Builds. If you want to see a very well done Linden Build , look in Iris for the Temple.

I have nature. All of it I want... Here's how you can get yours (though a modest investment is required:

A sim is 256x256 meters, total 65536 sqm. It can hold 15,000 prims. A normal price to rent an 8192 sqm parcel is around $£40-50 US. You have to share the sim with 8 people - and unless the covenant is *very* strict - you can expect not to see any trees, and ugly-ass mansions and concrete boxes.

Here's an option: A "void sim". This is also known as low-prim land. What you do is take a sim - and split the resources into 4 "simulated sims" so to speak. You quadruple the land. The effect of course, with this much land - is that you can't fit 15,000 prims on it any more - but only around 7500. Those 7500 are split over 4 sims - meaning 1875 prims per sim. What's the effect of this? Well... You will not be as likely to get prim-hogging, palace-building neighbours for one.

For those $40-50 US - instead of 8192 m2 with 1875 prims - you can get 32768 sqm (HALF a sim, for yourself!) with a prim limit of 937. I guess this was intended for "wildlife areas" but you know - for a humble individual with no need for a palace - it's GREAT!

Now, yes - often people get this land, and spend every prim on buildings. They just want privacy. However - if you go for a small house and a lot of trees - you can make your own paradise at a resonable rate.

I recently rented half a sim this way. Half a sim - all mine - for the price of a 1/8 sim parcel. About 2/3 of it is ocean. There's a main island, and dozens small ones around it. I blew 100 prims on a humble 2-room beach house, a dock for my boat and jacuzzi on the roof. Then went another 100 more prims on furniture, beach chairs, boueys, poseballs, etc. Add another 100 prims on various junk and landscape decorations (no flamingos, I have taste) and I spent another 250-300 prims on a *shitload* of trees, bushes and grasses (Linden's own home made trees use ONE PRIM each! Use Linden's free-to-copy trees! YAY for that idea! Release more 1-prim trees and beautify SL!)

I have an island paradise, full of trees, beaches, bushes, open water and romantic get-aways. I can go sailing in my boat, pick any beach for swimming, and any tree to rest underneath. I have arounf 400 prims left over. I could have an entire yacht club appear and res their boats, and my land can handle the load. In fact, I keep my land open (except a small eject-zone around my house) and let people visit my outer islands, and sail and so on. Tempted?

Too expensive?

Well. Ok. Try 1/4 sim then. 16384 sqm! For what? $20 US? Getting closer? You are now down to using 468 prims. That's not bad. I lived on a 1024 parcel for a while - with 234 prims. I still had the exact same beach house, same pool. Same furniture and beach chairs. Even had room for 20-30 plants - and there was 50 prims left over. You can make a good life for yourself with 468 prims - if you stay humble.

If then your needs aren't being met with the low prim count, I'll give you some words from comedian George Carlin: Drop some of your needs!

Now, this is for all you land lords out there...:

Get yer arses out of the dark ages! Buy some void sims now! People will buy them (at least some people.) Since you get 4-for-1 - you can add a hell of a lot more scenery, ambience and recreational space for your other customers to play on, if you decide not to sell the land. Start a yacht club, or a golf club. A tree-hugger's paradise. Whatever.

What, you never heard of void sims or low-prim land? Well... That's because it's constantly sold out, and you just about never see any on the market... My lot wasn't even *listed*. I found it by accident, and talked my way into it.

Ariya Draken

You are right Ariya, i have never heard of this. Is this Void Sim something you have to order special from Linden Labs, or is there some option to do this with any sim? Is there anywhere one can go to learn more about this?

i've never heard about void sims....WT* did you get this information?

I found one, more or less by accident on the search. The land seemed too large, too cheap, and with not enough prims. Then it vanished.

I was sure I was on to something though - so I looked around. I found a few sims around my neighbourhood that matched the criteria, and I sort of went went "Aroo...?".

Anshe Chung has a few of these, under the name "Dreamland Ocean". I think you'll find that the river-sims going through the Plush sims are voids as well - though clearly not for sale.

As for how to order / create them - I have no idea how to do that. I just rent a parcel.

If you like to see one and what it's like - teleport to the "Archimedes" Sim - or send me an IM and I can always invite you over.

Ariya Draken

Ah, I have found the information: http://secondlife.com/knowledgebase/article.php?id=329

And as to how you get one: "You must already own a normal island to be able to order Openspaces because they must be anchored to a normal existing Island that you own or be used in a series to create space between islands you own."

Thanks for pointing this feature out.

(Ironic this Knowledgebase article was created today, no? )

I agree with the OP, I'd love to see more open areas. The clutter is what turned me off SL when I first left Help Island.

I discovered something really cool though. I bought some land in a new area by a lake when it was all completely open, and started to built a cave there, with trees around it. Pretty soon more neighbors arrived and the houses started to pop up, though the waterfront ones were fairly nice houses on large lots. A huge mall appeared on the far shore, so I had to set my draw-distance really low so I couldn't see it. I learned to build and made the cave as pretty as I could. Then I got distracted and went away for a few months.

When I came back for a visit yesterday, some of the surrounding houses and the mall were gone. One neighbor tore down their house and built a rock formation with running water. On their other side is a magnificent castle. The mall disappeared and was replaced with a large open area with boardwalks. One neighbor still has a glowing neon freebie store, but at least it's nicely done.

I think many people want nature and lack of clutter, so if you build it your neighbors might continue the theme, and then you'll attract like-minded people to the area. It's like making a nature seed.

Yes! That's exactly what I've found!

There are lots of free one-prim trees available - it's not a big hardship to toss up 4 or 5 on them on a first land 512 lot. I wish more people would consider doing that. It's not a forest, but hey, every little bit helps in my opinion.

I agree. It's easy to build a nice house and plant 20 trees - but the problem is that most people just don't give a shit. They have zero respect for their neighbours, and no understanding of what the neighbor will see when they look out the window. This is why I chose a void sim as my home. I basically live in the house I had on my 1024 parcel. The extra 31,000 sqm is just to make sure that I won't be bothered by even the worst of neighbours.

I planted over 250-300 trees, probably a third of my total prim count. I get tons of compliments on my land - but that doesn't mean everyone else is following suit. Most people are greedy. They want their prims, for their benefit - and to hell with the neighbours. The good thing is, I no longer have to have their concrete boxes 6 feet from my house.

Linden Labs should get their heads out of their... yeah, and start selling void sims without the requirement of owning a normal sim first to attach them to. That rule is plain dumb.

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