Joining in on the rant (not what you expect)

Well, I just thought I would join in the fun of creating another topic on the downtime.

Let's see. So far I note 57 active threads spread across 5 different forum catagories here and I am sure it is building up even as I type. Come on people. I know it is upsetting to see the grid down for such a long period of time, but lets think about this for just a moment. First thing, please do not try to tell me that every project you have ever attempted to undertake has gone off without a hitch. Yes, I agree that more testing etc. should be done on any update, but, here we are, the update is implemented and seems to have caused more issues. Ok, we can sit here posting 57+ variations of the same whining, or we can keep it on one thread so that a representative does not have to sift through every post trying to respond and update us.

I am in no way stating that I agree with the manner in which LL currently undergoes thier upgrade planning and implementation, but let us be realistic. I have played MMO's for many, many years and across the board, I have seen this same thing happen on each and every one multiple times. It happens, deal with it. Why not just sit back, let them work on the current issues and bring the grid up. Truely there is absolutely no need to open this many threads over the same matter.

Another point I wish to bring up. All of the threatening "If LL doesn't do this or that they will lose me as a customer" etc etc. Few things on that....

1.) Do you truly think they do not realize people do leave when they become frustrated with a product that does not work? Don't threaten with that same old tired phrase ok? I have worked customer service for 17 long years and I can tell you, threats such as that will never, ever put a situation in your favor. You will only put the person on the other end of the conversation on the defensive and make them want to work less for you.

2.) If you still feel that you must threaten such things, don't. Just do it and go. No one, and I mean no one forces you to play this game. And regardless of what you may think. It is just that a game. It is here to entertain. If you are not entertained, find something that will. If you are still entertained, well then treat it as something that gives you joy and just be patient. These people are working as hard as they can trying to solve an issue that was unexpected. let them work. You bashing them over and over does absolutely nothing.

I understand we are all frustrated (myself included) but there is no good that can come from bashing people all day who are trying to fix an issue that was unexpected. And yes it was unexpected. Do you think they just sit there and say "Oh, it's Wednesday. Let's slap up an update that will take out the grid for the whole day. Weeeee!" I highly doubt this.

Just my 2 cents. And also, no I am not affiliated in any way with LL. I just know what it feels like to be on the other side of that customer service desk when people think that everything wrong in the world is your fault and they have the right to insult, assualt and intimidate you. I say, why not just think for a moment and look at the big picture. they are trying to fix the issue. I know of a few MMO's that updates came every, oh, 6 months, and they didn't work out too well either, so a couple hours of the game is not a killer.

I will end my post by saying hey Lindens. Thank you for attempting to rectify the situations in the game for our enjoyment. At least you are trying unlike others I have seen

hmmm ok lets go there


i have 15years Customer Service, and everywhere i have worked would not tolerate such sloppy, last minute, untried and continous "breakage". if this was an every now and again thing im sure that no so many people would complain, however as time goes by it gets steadily worse. the lindens arent even making an effort to fix the bugs that previous updates have caused before implementing new ones.

so i have no clue where you have worked that accepts such shoddy workmanship but rest assured, there would be a whole lot of pink slips at my place of employment if this were to happen.

oh maggie,not every employer sucks. i would consider the employment i was at that were if those were the terms(like the ones you are on)
employment isnt slavery

keep up the good work LL!

I agree with your post totally. I do think that LL does their hardest to make it the best that they can. What I think is the most frustrating for people is something that happened to me. I noticed several updates ago that the about land option had an error in it, instead of store it had stage. Where the search still had store. When I asked live help about this I got a run of the mill answer from a linden saying that they are making changes. Nothing more, nothing less. Normally this would be ok, but the real flaw is that there is no progress reports to tell us what they are working on, known bugs and their priority. Once you make a bug report, you never see if it has even been looked at. I think this part is the most frustrating for people.

To solve this, there should be a place, that is blatently obvious of comfirmed bugs of all types. A list so to speak and their priority. Yes the Stage/Store bug is a low priority, but also an easy fix. If we were able to see these type reports, we would know that at least they are working on fixing these problems.

With that said, I still think that LL does an good job on creating enough content not to keep a player interested. I played Merdian 59 (the first MMORPG to use graphics) and the downfall was the LACK of content update. Still the best game play imo, well balanced, but the lack of updates/contents makes the game stale when you have done everything in the game. So with that said, I applaud LL in trying to keep things fresh, but a report on the status of reported/known bugs (within reason, not security problems or things that can be exploited) shoudl be posted, and their priority and progress.

smiles, no employment is not slavery, and im sorry i stand by what i say. have a good day lilly


yes its great that the lindens do take the time to implement new content features, but to do so without addressing the issues the last few have cause shows they dont care. or they are more interested in making it bigger and better. i have played other rp games, and none have had updates so sloppily put together and if thier was a bug it was addressed immediatly. again as i have stated if it was an every now and again issue, thier wouldnt be so many complaints.

I can understand that point of view and this is in no way an attack on you or anyone else, but I think your experience and mine as well may have been with products that affect people on a one on one basis, or perhaps small groups. We are talking here about a system that is used literally by thousands of people and things can go wrong. Have you not seen a product (IE a television) which is manufactured at an assembly plant, and it turns out that some component is defective so therefore they have the beautiful thing called a recall. Well lets think on a larger scale. Instead of a few hundred or thousand tv's made with that defective product, this is really just the equivalent of a product that is mailed out to thousands of users at one time.

My original post was merely stating that let us stop bashing them. They are attempting to correct the problem on the same day. Let's just let them fix it and be done with it. All of the bashing and threatening is really pointless, as I am sure you are aware having worked in the same field. Let's be realistic. They (the company not an individual) made the mistake of rolling out an update that was not fully functional. I do not dispute that in any way. I just think the bashing and threatening is a bit much. Can you name me one software package anywhere that was perfect at release? or for that matter after any update? No. There is always some issue somewhere in the code. It happens

So again to recap, yes I am aggravated, yes I am bored, but in the end. It is a game. It is not life or death. Not one person is going to die because the patch did not work. You may not agree with me and that is all fine and good but please, really, what do people think threats and bashing will accomplish? I just think it is silly that we had to run right out throughout today to open 50+ threads which are all practically the same thread. I would not be surprised to find the same response on each thread. Why not just open 1 thread and post all into that 1.

Again, it is a game, nothing more nothing less. Just wait for it to come back up and go have fun

"We are talking here about a system that is used literally by thousands of people and things can go wrong. Have you not seen a product (IE a television) which is manufactured at an assembly plant, and it turns out that some component is defective so therefore they have the beautiful thing called a recall. Well lets think on a larger scale. Instead of a few hundred or thousand tv's made with that defective product, this is really just the equivalent of a product that is mailed out to thousands of users at one time."

Considering that people spend real money here, this sort of downtime (14+ hours when it was said to have been 5), I think a better analogy would be the entire banking system going down. Sorry, ATMs are out of service. Sorry, you can't get change for your store. Sorry, you can't access your savings, checking, money market, etc. (Yes, it's an extreme example, but it's closer to reality for some, than a television going wonky).

"They (the company not an individual) made the mistake of rolling out an update that was not fully functional. I do not dispute that in any way. I just think the bashing and threatening is a bit much. Can you name me one software package anywhere that was perfect at release? or for that matter after any update? No. There is always some issue somewhere in the code. It happens"

Yes, it does happen. I think the term in computing is G.I.G.O. - Garbage In, Garbage Out (since that isn't my field, my apologies if I got that one wrong)

"So again to recap, yes I am aggravated, yes I am bored, but in the end. It is a game. It is not life or death. Not one person is going to die because the patch did not work. You may not agree with me and that is all fine and good but please, really, what do people think threats and bashing will accomplish?"

My guess is that they're venting. Which customers tend to do.

"I just think it is silly that we had to run right out throughout today to open 50+ threads which are all practically the same thread. I would not be surprised to find the same response on each thread. Why not just open 1 thread and post all into that 1."

I'm thinking folks probably posted in the first one they saw.

"Again, it is a game, nothing more nothing less. Just wait for it to come back up and go have fun "

I'm sticking with my "real cash for trash" theory. And I'm one of 'them' so... eh, I'll go to bed and if I still can't get in tomorrow I'll get on that long line of people hoping to wade through the red tape and get their paws on a crisp new USD bill ...woo...

I've been here since March, 2005...and slowly have watch update after update get worse and worse. I am ranting...i would prefer that Linden totally forget about new upgrades, and fix the mess they've made. They, in the past have put bandaids on fixes now the whole game needs major surgery. I am one of the few would feel it better to shut us down for a full day or two and fix it right, than do a shotty job and get it wrong...AGAIN. Personally, after a year and a half of playing, i'm really getting tired of being their QA department.

Hey, ranting I understand completely. Post all the ranting you want. It is annoying to have this happen. Just hit me as strange that we needed so many posts on the same subject. I have come across many where the title and questions are almost identical. Seems pretty simple to keep it to one or two posts ont he subject and everyone just post resposes within that post.

Also, in response to the newer anology of a banking system going down LOL. I have worked at 2 financial institutions and I hate to tell you. It happens too. No one got fired, the world did not end. I too would love a world where everything works perfectly from day one and never needs updates or fixes but let us be realistic. Things break. things can be outside our control. It is how you respond to such things that makes all the difference

I really was just leaning toward making the point that hey, threatening, name calling etc is really not going to get the consumer anywhere. I mean, really, since I have been reading all of these posts and there seems to be so many that are complete experts on how to fix each situation, I say well then, go out, get the funding and create us a new virtual world that runs perfectly from day 1 and never needs repair. I will have my credit card ready and waiting for you as a consumer when you do that. If you can not do that then please, let this company do thier job and fix the problem and move on

Those financial problems were found on the 6th..why were we not told until the 8th? You are right, let them do their job, all i ask is that they do it responsibly.

"Also, in response to the newer anology of a banking system going down LOL. I have worked at 2 financial institutions and I hate to tell you. It happens too. No one got fired, the world did not end. I too would love a world where everything works perfectly from day one and never needs updates or fixes but let us be realistic. Things break. things can be outside our control. It is how you respond to such things that makes all the difference"


Wouldn't happen to be the AMEX, would it? Because not only did it happen once, but many! And trust me, the ranting there was more like telling the lions at the zoo "whoopsie, someone forgot to put raw meat on the shopping list again.." LOL

As for response, I think that's the very point of the ranting. Hoping to get a response (whether it be succinct, correct and in print, or some action on the part of the powers that be). Not a lot to ask in my not-so-humble opinion.

Ahh, right.. I was going to bed, wasn't I? *one more check. yup, it's down....*

but i doubt any of the above posts that are singing the praises of LL, have income tied up in this game. There are some, that have a huge investment in SL, they derive full time job, real life income from it. And why not ? LL has made every attempt to advertise this as a game benefit. I do have a business here, it is profitable, it pays our land tier for the most part, but at this point, i would have problems recommending SL as a source of full time income. I for one would stay up nights sweating bullets, wondering if my place of employment would be even workable the next day.

Yes i understand this is a highly complex format, yes i understand that no ones perfect, but why does everyone have this impending feeling of doom every time a new version is announced? Why does every new version seem to make more problems, that some get solved some don’t? Ever. Well i can’t help but feel if anyone of us owned a business, a sense of pride at the very least, would make you take things to task, to greatly transform the process of change.

The latest round of problems has not improved my outlook on any of my opinions. Yes we could all go down to basic membership and play the game for fun and enjoyment, but it would be oh so droll, and boring, so why would you bother in the first place?

I hazard to think if our favorite TV channel was down, had new changes that made watching it almost impossible..we would be so accepting. Ok maybe this analogy isn’t so great, but you get my drift i'm sure.

LL needs to consider what this does to its customers, but i think as of my last reading we have been demoted to consumers. If the real customer Phil is trying to attract is major corporations, i’m thinking they too will have some considerations after reflecting on the recent past track record of LL.

Sorry but this newest version gets a thumbs down from me.

bravo cinda bravo

Well just in response of having money tied up in game there. I do in fact have money tied up in the game. hell, I own a real estate firm, so therefore I have monthly premium plus land tier. As stated before. I agree with many things said about the fact that the implementation of updates needs to better. I just don't think the expression of many disgruntled people were worded in a way that would be productive.

I think if you hear silence, all is lost...just means everyones given up, and they don't care any more. I would fear that most of all, if i were Phil

cinda--
I couldn't agree more. Even though most posts will be ranting (bitching, warranted or not, will always have more volume than praising, warranted or not).

As a tech support person in RL, I see both sides well. The bottom line is that both sides want smooth sailing. It's in LL's best interest as well as the "customers".

I wish the Preview Grid was such that these "major" upgrade shortcomings could surface well before a production roll. Obviously, many items cannot possibly be validated on the Preview Grid.

As for concentrating on fixing "old" bugs, seems like a no brainer to me. By not fixing existing bugs, it stands to reason that new code may suffer from such bugs in similar or completely different fashion.

On a side note, regarding the Security Breach, it's unfortunate, but it happens. Just last week, I received a letter from AT&T, that my credit card info (with the exception of the 3 digit security code) was compromised on one of their computers. Two weeks before I had made an online purchase at their DSLStore (for a DSL modem I have since returned). First time purchase from their site. They recommended that I contact the card company and put a marker to watch for suspicious activity. They also recommended that I contact one of the three major credit bureaus to have them watch for a possible Identy Theft activity (only need to contact one which will inturn notify the other two). Happens to be the same card I use with LL, so I can now kill two birds with one stone

*laughs*

I'm sorry... Lindens make the code... the good and the bad and the ugly and provide the tools for the USERS make the content.

You have this game/platform/job/way of life/escape/holosuite mixed up with a traditional MMO....

Sit back and think about what has to be done to make SL work. (All the hundreds of servers and their software.) Even with the current problems, it's quite amazing. Each server has to pass data about your avatar, (what it's doing, wearing and seeing), to other servers as you cross sims in real time. Keep in mind the client software is 25 megabyte "compressed". I can only imagine how huge the software is for running the servers. But I do agree that bugs should be fixed before adding new features and performance improvements.

I think the following is what has happen. Say we have software with routines called a, b, c, d, e. All the routines work but both b and d are known to have a bug. Some new features are added as routines f and g, which use routines b, c and d to work properly. Now the fix for b and d are implemented. This fixes routines b and d but it changes how the new feature provided in routines f and g behave. More routines are added before the new problems are fixed. You end up reaching a point where when you change the code to fix one problem it generates new problems in other sections of the program.

I'm sure LL is aware of this scenario. What is needed is more people using the preview grid to better exercise the servers so these problems get seen before the updated code is placed on the main grid.

I would like to see a status report page for bugs and provide a voting system where you can vote on which bug you would like to have fixed first. This would provide a priority for fixes that is now only determined by the amount of ranting seen in the forum. But I do praise LL of their efforts. How many other online games are there that provide new features and updates every 2 weeks or so.

It is amazing how much does actually. I mean we only notice the things that are not work which blowups like a mushroom cloud. So really what percent is not working? 0.001%?

What % do you attach to not even being able to move from one parcel to another without overflying it. what % do you attach to annoyances of things that should normally work - like textures rezzing in less than several minutes time - and used to (pre 1.7). i'd say 100%

would love to use the preview grid! how do i get on it?

well, as we all know, LL has made another amazing update, causing the grid to go down, like I know always happens, so im used to it, but now.....how long has it been? over a full DAY of the gird going up and back down, with as many updates to follow, to me, this is getting a little crazy, now; in a way, I cant blame the lindens, its just one of those things that just happens every now and then, somone will forget somthing or another, but its not like the company isnt trying to help, if you can read the linden blog, you can obiously tell they are trying as fast as they can to bring the game back to us, so for now, im just trying to pass the time, until the grid comes BACK up (maybe it has by now, lol) and keep going....perhaps I can dust off some books and read somthing for once, lol

we should just try to remain peaceful, just think, It could be WAY worse than how it is now. (like the servers catching fire and everything ever made in the game being lost)



-hazake

Heya Maggie, this is how, go to the SL community page, find downloads, and in there is the download for the "Siva" preview grid, it is most interesting i always try and go. Download and then it will load to your PC, and provide its own icon to access it.

While im on the subject, does anyone know why when your in preview, things seem to work so good, your happy with all the changes, i try out several things, rezzing objects, buying things, etc, but when the new version hits the main grid you wonder if it was the same one in the preview? Am sure its got alot to do with how the servers process info to one another, and how many ppl are in the game. Have also heard ppl say that they have found bugs in the preview, reported them, only to find them in the main grid the day of the new download.

Think too that when your in the preview, you will note that your probably the only one there, ahhhhhh the freedom of no lag, its like heaven! Possibly they could encourage a stack in day for the preview, so avater numbers could be tested before moving it in to main.

Don't anyone get me wrong, i love SL, i have never had more fun on line than in this game, hence my pride takes over and i want it to be the very best it can be, for everyone.

Yes weve had some severe bugs lately, one of which took out a years worth of work and 75% percent of our prims on our main parcel, yes we were devistated. It cost us half our vendors in our mall, it took days of 24 hr straight rebuilding to get all the condos back up.
But we venture on, and cheer LL on in pursuit of better things and less bugs for all.

ty cinda will do !!


however if so few people do hop on the preview grid. why do the lindens go ahead with the updates? wouldnt it be more realistic to at least have an in game sim where they can test thier shiney shineys in a more reaslistic setting?


and no im not a techinical person(i keep a sledgehammer near my computer), so probably because the preview grid doesnt have to deal with that the game grid does. its a "controlled" environment that doesnt have griefers, builds, lag or 1000 avis at any given moment running thru the sim. ok got a headache dam you cinda!! you made me think!!!


but will get that download running and ty again hun *MUAH*

YW Maggie...lol sledgehammer, im gonna get me one a them things!