Removal Of Xploders

Well there some of us here that is repling with sence..........Some others well are just faking it..........

Sooner of later we might see a few of these rules. all but 4 which is silly to start with


Same sex partnerships, Not all of them are sexual but business reasons.

As for the others well like gambling which nobody thought they would they would banned it. Maybe soon escorting might follow suit. who knows.........

Your reply is very intersting indeed heheh





I am sorry this is the quote of the week for nuttery as they say............oh please......

Some times i wonder about how people view Sl. But then again when i see quotes like this it sets the IQ of uses lower and lower.

I think the same thing when I try and make sense of your English each time you quote me. It looks like it's improving though, keep working on it .

It's not "real" money until I convert it back, now is it?

Just like chips in a casino, Brock. You buy 'em, gamble with 'em, then cash 'em in. L$ is just the same exact thing if yer gambling with L$. Pretty simple stuff, really.

Just like "chips in a casino", it's not legal tender. Just try taking those chips out of the casino and spending them somewhere. Yes, I understand your point... but you completely ignore mine. Again, I believe that any money you make in game should stay in game... where it will provide the most benefit. Not just to the person that posesses it, but to all the merchants with which they will spend that money. People could then do anything they want with their in-game money without being subject to any laws.

The ability to both buy and sell L$ with real $ is a central aspect of the whole shebang.

That isn't going away so that people can run casinos. And if it DID go away, few would bother to run casinos anyway.

So little faith in the community. You go on and on about how strong and good the community is, yet you seem to allude that people would contribute NOTHING to SL unless there was something in it for them.

This is, in essence, what your post says to me:

"The community of SL is so weak, that no one will contribute anything to it unless there is some monetary gain to be had."

Sounds like a great community to me.

*laughs* Um, way to put words in my mouth, Brock.

Not what I said, but hey, read what you like, regardless of what is actually said.

Sayin' that a lot of creativity and effort goes into SL products 'cause L$ and real $ exchange is one thing. Saying ALL of the creativity and effort is due to real $ would be stupid. *chuckles*

To be fair to *some* previous owners of "casinos" or such....
Alot of owners that I know didn't take that money out of SL, but put it back in to fund contests, camping and other giveaways in their related clubs and/or malls - which in many cases allowed alot of folks to gain some small L$.
That was quite important to many new SL'ers who wanted a few L$ to get that item they so desired from the stores.

Certainly the monies from gambling devices (sploders included) in my previous club went that way too and it kept the club bouncing along.

From that respect its a shame because some of those places were social hotspots and a damned good laugh.

I'm not so daft as to suggest that all gambling machine owners did the same thing - but lets not tar all gambling device owners as rip-off merchants that wanted only to make a fast buck at the expense of the community.

I wonder if The Sims Online is being hit like this to. They have casinos.

Here's a question, is a sploder that requires no payment considered gambling? I've seen some club sploders that are free to enter but with many people paying into them anyway. A fun way to spread a little wealth around and even those who put money in have a shot to make some.

Is it gambling if you can win without risking anything? I'd say its more like a tip jar that shoots most of the money back to the crowd.

No, anything that does *not* require a "wager", ie: a payment to be made is *not* in LL's definition of a gambling device.

So I would say that any type of free-play device is good to go.


BTW... LOL
I have seen travelling casinos about - more than once now

Usagi,

Kitty is correct that there is a difference between things where *depiction* is illegal (such as child pornography), and things where only *acts* are illegal (such as gambling and alcohol consumption).

I'm not aware of any major coutries with significant populations ingame where depiction of drinking or gambling is illegal. I am aware of one country (Germany) where depictions (such as cartoons) of child pornography are illegal.

This is a simple argument, anyone with an average IQ should be able to understand it, or else argue intelligently against it. I'd be interested to see any such argument, but haven't.

BTW, I heartily agree with your opinion that LL should avoid interfering with our liberties as much as possible. I bet LL does too, but their legal department is warning them about significant threats to their business.

Loss of gambling is going to be a hit on the LL economy, but it won't sink it. As mentioned above, there's much more to (second) life than that.

We're not ignoring your point. We understand it, and we empathize with your sentiments. However, it simply doesn't apply. Chips in a casino may not be legal tender, but the US government makes sure to tax gambling gains. Note that the income is not treated identically to ordinary (service) income, or barter income, or capital gains, or any other kind of income: it's treated as gambling income even though the gambling is done using casino chips.

And your opinion that gambling income from SL should stay in SL is laudable, and probably represents the majority of winnings by residents. But it's beside the point, frankly, becase (a) residents CAN take the winnings to RL, and (b) the casinos either DO take the winnings in RL, or else they use them to purchase things of real value in SL (or for paying LL), and (c) winnings are income, so it's real gambling, even if winnings stay in SL. (As much as I hate to say it.)

In fact, the US IRS is studying taxation for income in virtual worlds. The principle that they CAN is already well legally established; the question is more a matter of whether, when, and how. I say "whether", but I'll be suprised if it doesn't happen eventually. I'd rather they keep their mitts out until the $L is converted to $US, but that's just my whim and has little bearing. It's not the $L so much as the complexity I'd hate -- can you imagine having to fill out your SL-1040? ARRGH!

For me, it's JUST A GAME, and taxation of SL earnings would seem rather like taxing Monopoly earinings. But there's a big difference. There's an end to the monopoly game, and all the paper money goes back into the box. This doesn't happen in SL, and as long as earnings are retained, they're earnings -- they allow you to purchase goods and services of value to you.

BTW, for some people it might be better to tax in SL rather than waiting for conversion to RL money, because then they may be able to take advantage of capital gains taxes rather than ordinary income.

Iam hesitant to post this but i will. The bottom line is this, it is beneficial for Lindens to comply with the US laws for 2 reasons.

Reason # 1: Keeps the government off of their backs.

Reason #2: (and please think about this) I have been around since day one with various alts.....and i can tell you that one of the most longest standing consistent club and businesses are owned by the man himself. So its good for SL to lose some clubs along the way. As well as casinos. It creates more in game lindens to spend on linden owned business under the guise of alts. Of course i will be flamed away on this but i know for a fact, first hand it is true.............now im just waiting for my ban. goodbye all.

Regarding the complaints that LL didn't provide an advance warning regarding the removal of gambling:

THINK people. Money from gambling provided income for LL. Do you think they would have done this if they weren't pressured? To say we now acknowledge that we are conducting illegal activities and we are giving you a certain amount of time to stop doesn't wash. If it's acknowledged it's illegal (which basically they now have) then they must stop it immediately.

I'm sorry when anyone loses an income but my sympathy for the casino owners only goes so far. Investing in any business in SL is a risky venture whether it be gambling, real estate, etc. Remember, you are only investing in bits of code in a very new realm. There is risk involved and a lot of precedents have not been set yet. If you aren't willing to take the risk then don't invest.

But that assumes they were pressured. In reality, LL has been trying to locate servers in a number of major countries for the purpose of crafting SL in a way that conforms to all laws. What happens as a result is a significant restriction for Americans who are not used to German laws, for Germans who are not used to French law, for French who are not used to Brazilian law, and the list goes on. In doing this, essentially they alienate consumers from a broad swath countries in order to make SL "safe." How safe must SL become before it's just a CPU-hogging MOO? I wonder how happy LL's capital investment backers are as a result of this unfortunate strategy.

No matter where SL is located, something in it will violate some law somewhere, and it will affect some and not others. Until the mystic Utopia is created where everyone can do what they want, this will be a problem.

I've proved that such a Utopia can't exist.
Simply:
If you have one and there are no laws (one of the requirements for Utopia) someone will break "a law" against, say, stealing because it isn't forbidden. Then things fall into chaos as others follow and do *anything* they want.

Yep. Humans are not meant to live in Utopia. We really shouldn't be allowed out of Cleveland.......

I've posted probably dozens of times showing how Lindens are technically game pieces, not currency, and it's still true. Why, then, would the Lindens take this drastic and dramatic course of action, if their position is completely defensible?

Very simply, if anyone were to take them to court over it, it would be on behalf of the United States government in all likelihood. That's "government" as in "infinitely deep pockets". Whether right is on their side or not, they could seriously damage their company fighting it - and this potential damage was apparently assessed as being so great that kicking the virtual economy to the curb looked like the lesser of two evils.

It looks like the virtual economy is strong enough to weather this setback - the whole thing didn't run on gambling, though that was an important part of it. It may take quite a while for everything to find its own level and for the waters to calm, though. And of course, in the meantime, a great many of the former business magnates in SL are out of business.

Ok seriously, I'm seeing alot of patterns here. First off your all going in circles about the fact that LL should do this or that so you all can keep casinos. Well guess what? Not gonna happen, get past it, LL is not gonna change their mind. Yes it sucks for some/alot of you. I feel for you I really do BUT. LL has a loyalty to their employees as well as their customers. They keeps letting stuff slide and eventually its gonna become an avalance.

As far as the rest of you whining and complaining. Saying "oh no now what do we do". USE YOUR BRAINS PEOPLE. Any of you ever been to the boardwalk? How about places like (without actually saying the name) CEC. You play all these lovely casino games. Do you get money? nope. do you get tickets/points? yep, and what do you get with said points? hmmm a dinky little prize that you prolly payed for 15 times playing the games to get the points when you coulda run to the dollar store to buy it for a buck.

Now, not saying you should give away dinky prizes. BUT, what if said points could be used to buy things in select stores/malls. Was tossing this idea around with the owner of dominion prefabs. really not a bad idea. Hell could web base just like SLX and OR. I mean seriously guys/gals. If ya spent 1/2 of much time thinking up and developing new items/services/whatever. you would prolly have your next business up and running already. As far as the rest of you that are all deperessed about gambling going out the window.

1-800-Gambling is your new best friend. If your gonna miss it that much in a game you might wanna call that number and get some help.

I agree with Kitty's answers to the OP's points 1-3 back on post #4, but as to this...



Real life furries are people in animal costumes, NOT actual animals, ergo no bestiality occurs when they have sex. SL furries are ALSO humans in a type of costume so, again, nothing resembling bestiality occurs...actually, nothing resembling real sex occurs. It's more like calling a (legal) 900 number while watching cartoon porn.

None of your 'examples' are equatable to the gambling ban. All of the sex/substance use/violence/partnering in SL is simulated, whereas the gambling is actual gambling, involving credits (Lindens) convertible to valid RL currency. Try to resist the urge to compare apples with zebras.

Right, Ann.

And ageplay is a funny case: it's not sex with children (assuming participants are adults), and no children are exploited. However, in some countries, even the *depiction* of sex acts with children is illegal, and thus the ban. Whether we agree or disagree with how it should be, that is how it is.

Another think to keep in mind is that laws, like fishing nets, nearly always have "bycatch" -- things that are unintentionally caught. Sploders might be a good example.

And no doubt dozens of times, people have pointed out that casino chips are technically game pieces too. This is irrelevant to the US government for the purposes of taxation and gambling laws. It is definitely currency, whether you want to admit it or not.

Linden money differs from Monopoly money because the Monopoly game ends and all the money goes back into the box; the next game starts fresh with a new allotment. If there was some world-wide Monopoly game with open participation and which never ended, and people valued their standing in the game so much that they're willing to trade legal tender and other services for Monopoly money, then that game's Monopoly money would be currency too.

I agree with your other points.

Too bad 'bout Sploders, though. And shucks, had I known they were unfair, ...