(very) old issue, my 2 cents...

I have also been affected by this issue and I want to urge Linden Labs to please sort this out as soon as possible.

signed
Maya Remblai

Like Becky I also sell avatars, and have to replace lost inventory frequently. I can tell when things are worse than usual without going in-world because there is more than one or two support request messages in my inbox!

In my opinion, the *whole* problem with the SL asset server situation is this: Linden Lab is VERY opensource-oriented, which is exactly what they should be, where they try hard to use as much opensource software as they can, ie: Linux, PHP, MySQL etc.. However, they are attempting to use MySQL for a MUCH larger database than it was designed for. MySQL is unparalleled for small-to-medium database projects, but the SL asset database is NOT suitable for MySQL. I've heard rumors of the asset database size being as high as 250 terabytes.. For something this size, if you want stability and no data corruption, you use industrial strength Oracle or DB2, which of course, LL would never do, as they are blindly using Opensource no matter what the consequences... The proper use of Opensource is to use it when appropriate, and use the right tool for the right job. Of course, these industrial strength database engines are VERY pricey, but you get what you pay for... I've been in SL since June 2005, and this is the worst wave of inventory loss I've seen in that time. My inventory has big gaping holes in it. Since I'm a compulsive organizer, I can easily tell what items are missing from my inventory. I've done the usual suggested mumbo-jumbo of clearing cache, and nothing happens.. Previously, I'd only lost a couple of items quite a while ago, and was able to get the items replaced by the seller. This time around, I submitted a trouble ticket to LL and guess what? Nearly a week, and not a peep of them... I'm sure glad I'm not trying to run a business under these conditions... My heart goes out to those who are *trying*.....


Tas

That is a really interesting insight Tas, and if what you've heard about the existing infrastructure is correct it explains a lot. I'm a big fan of Open Source myself - are there no Open Source alternatives to Oracle / DB2? Just out of interest, would you have any idea of what sort of money porting to an Oracle / DB2 system would cost? Obviously in addition to purchasing the actual system, there would be all the associated manpower costs in implementation - I wonder if it would be the cost or the abandonment of Open Source technologies that's influencing LL's decisions on this.

Does anyone from LL have a comment on this?

_______________________________________________________________

---:: Animazoo animations - The best dances in SL - Smooth AOs - Freebies ::---
.

Hi Dave!
I don't have accurate numbers on costs for Oracle or DB2, but the co. I work for, about the time I started there (2005) was completing a switchover from Oracle to MS SQLServer. Our IT mgr said several times that the co. would save about 30K a year with that move.. Our databases there are a max of 1TB.. In LL's case, I'd bet my next paycheck that part of their rationale for using MySQL, besides it being opensource, was the fact that, unless they want to buy a support contract from MySQL a.b., its essentially free... For the size of the cluster LL would need to host the asset server under Oracle, I'd bet it would be, (just a semi-educated-wild-guess here) close to a Million US$.. Oracle will run on things like RedHat Enterprise Linux, but often is used on things like Solaris/Sparq clusters. Don't know about DB2, as its IBM, and I'm clueless on IBM.. But when you consider the 7000+ servers and the cost of those systems, that comprise the LL grid, I'm sure they could afford to throw a reliable database into the mix.. After all, without the asset database, SL is just a glorified chatroom...

Tas

I second this thread, as I, too, have been affected by it. I have customers who never received the goods they bought. (And not from a vendor.) And I myself have not received goods I have bought.

I have not heard the idea of getting something besides MySquirrel or whatever it is (I'm not a technical person), but if that would fix the problem, or even just help, you'd think they would have long SINCE done this. Certainly they should now.

If they can't afford something as basic as a large enough database, they are misspending their (our) funds.

The other thing I've heard is that 60k people on all the time may just be too many people.

If that is the case, then it is time to THROTTLE THE LOG-ONS - as they discussed doing a year or two ago, and then we never heard of that again - to paying residents or at least to payment on file residents.

And finally, if our businesses and our customers are having to suffer, with commerce itself becoming unreliable, just so a bunch of BOTS can log on, well, this place doesn't deserve our money anyhow.

Just tell me a bunch of bots is causing any of this, and I am guaranteed to go ballistic.

coco

CoCo, One thing I hate more than anything is descrimation, align that with snobbery and you have a classes society, the have's and the have nots.

The whole dynamics of this VR platform is NOT to be a 'members only club'. Second Life was never made to compete with the likes of dolly dressing The Sims on Line. It was always going to be the 3D internet, a platform of commerce and trade. You don't pay a subscription for a platform that doesn't supply you with content such as a linear game plot, 'The Grind', or singular roleplay (get 1,260 of these, add it to 3,899 of those and make that, then trade that with the bartender at the LL Inn etc etc).

If you do not provide the entertainment, but you do gain revenue from every peice of VR land bought, teir on every peice of VR land, every penny for classified ads, money to upload the very content created off the platform and brought into, transaction costs for currency exchange, then you have no right to charge just for being there. Do you charge your customers to walk into your shop?

Imagine if every website you visited charged you a fee before you could view the content, would you be using the internet? Do Yahoo or Google charge you for using their email servers? Do YouTube charge you to view the movies hosted? Do Flkr charge you for hosting and streaming your pictures to anyone who click your link? Do you pay to view maps of the world, or of your street, trip planners, holiday information, flights, education? The list goes on.
If SL has any chance in hell of becoming what it is destined for (the 3D internet), they need to educate those that think this is a members only club, and have's and have nots.

BTW, before you flame me for having a Basic account, I bought and paid for, nearly four years ago a LIFETIME membership. LL scrapped it 6 months later and offered no refund, and reverted my account to Basic. I have turned over in excess of 20,000 USD through this platform since I arrived, and continue to add to that. On a business calculation, LL get around 10% of my turnover as a Minimum, which equates to 2,000 USD. To be honest anyone paying to use this Beta programme, are the ones that need to rethink their status.

Dear LL,

I'm currently in NY to attend the Virtual Worlds conference, where amongst other things, I hope to talk to someone from LL about these issues. Because I don't have a laptop capable of running SL, I am limited to just checking my email using Internet cafes. Therefore, I am unable to answer the following support request - I cannot describe how frustrating this is:

1st message:

[11:50] Anon: OMG Mr.
[11:51] Anon: Your Dances are the F@#$ing Best
[11:51] Anon: I will be buying Lindens tomorrow and this will be my first stop!

followed by (from the same person):

[11:57] Anon: ok wait I just got the dutty wine it took the money the 250 and no dance

This is a genuine IM I've just received in my email inbox. I am currently powerless to help until I get home to my main PC.

Please, please, please LL, talk to us! Let us know that you intend to do something about this as soon as is humanly possible!

As happy as I am to see the new server and 1.19 releases, they are SO unimportant to me compared to these issues.

despairingly,

Dave


_______________________________________________________________

---:: Animazoo animations - The best dances in SL - Smooth AOs - Freebies ::---
.

Hi Dave, love your stuff

Yes the situation sucks, LL will get it fixed, but I'm sure that sometime in the future it will happen again and again.

***It's time for merchants to take things into their own hands and make things easier for themselves.***

For example if you used a web based vendor system such as Hippotech, You would of been able to to send Anon the item they purchased from your web browser. (and if the item was copyable, you could set up the hippo re-delivery terminal and your customers would be able to get the item themselves) or turn off the vendors totally while the problems are happening.

The same goes for the borky groups functions, products like subscribe-o-matic and the upcoming Hippo product work around all the problems with the groups.

anyway... that's just my two cents

I have also been affected by this issue MANY MANY TIMES and I want to urge Linden Labs to please sort this out as soon as possible.

Well, I spoke to a couple of LL employees about at the Virtual Worlds conference. For what it's worth, I got a profuse apology. They also confirmed that they ARE using MySQL for the main database, so we at least now know the problems can be put down to use of software that simply isn't up to the job. I was told that in addition to 'other solutions being considered', they are in the process of 'fragmenting' the current database - does this sound like a sensible solution to anyone who knows about such things?

In the meantime, anyone who is waiting patiently for me to get back to them, please rest assured I will be sorting out all the failed transactions when I get back on Tuesday - I currently have a list of over 50 to get through...

ALthough I've been unable to log into SL, I have been keeping an eye on the blog whilst out here in NY. There is a certain irony to the current situation whereby LL are being let down by THEIR service providers. How's it feel guys?

Oops, I'm letting my vitriol leak out again - /me slaps self on wrist.

Since I'm making so many updates to this forum post, I'm thinking of starting a blog - would anyone be interested in reading it if I did? If so, is there anything else ppl would like to see me covering?

to Johnnie - Thanks for adding your 'two cents'. I had considered using Hippovend or similar, but decided (for the moment at least) I'd rather not have to pay someone else comission on my work to provide services that I'm already paying LL for!

__________________________________________________ _____________

---:: Animazoo animations - The best dances in SL - Smooth AOs - Freebies ::---
.

I have also had several problems like i didn't get my items, when i bought them. Since i bought the Linden $ for real money, this really upsets me. The Lindens don't seem to care about it, but they are messing around with peoples money here.
Items i wanted to send to a friend, just disappear - items i buy, i don't get.

I really think, it is most important to solve this problem with the asset server. This has highest priority.

New viewers don't work for me either, so I don't care, if there is a new windlight or not.

Thanks Dave, for giving me the animation, after i didnt get it. I can imagine, how frustrating this is for you...

I deal with it,It is just part of the job.I have never seen anything in RL or on the net that was turnkey and smooth running.....

I have also been affected by this issue and I want to urge Linden Labs to please sort this out as soon as possible.

Xero Blue

Now, with that out of the way....

It's time you get off your backside and DO SOMETHING about this issue, Linden Labs! Although I am a recent resident, I can see that this issue has existed almost since the inception of SL and you haven't done anything to actually fix the problem. I KNOW that it cannot possibly be that you don't have the money to do it, so you must just be penurious. If I went to an online store like Wal-Mart or Newegg or Amazon and ordered something from them, they hand it off to either UPS, FedEx, or DHL for delivery. If the carrier doesn't bring it to me, they are at fault - not the vendor - and THEY REIMBURSE ME!

The same situation applies here. The content creators are handing their creations to you (Linden Labs) after those items were purchased and expecting you, in good faith, to deliver those items to thier customers. Since you are the delivery company, you are responsible for seeing to it that those items are delivered OR the customer is reimbursed for the loss of that item. Content creators and vendors shouldn't have to dread logging in or spend half their time online taking care of support requests that, in all honesty, ARE NOT THEIR FAULT. In EVERY real life industry in every real life country, the delivery company accepts responsibility for the items that they have been PAID to deliver and it is now time for you to do the same. FIX the problems with your database or start covering our losses the way any First Life delivery company would.

/me crosses fingers (and toes)

Still LL, I do think that some dialogue with us in this forum might be polite at this stage. Speaking for myself, I don't believe you are remiss enough not to have been following our comments here. I also think that we have at least some right to an outline of 'the plan to increase the performance and stability of Second Life', however vague it may be at this point in time. I really do need more details so I can plan my business accordingly.

Oh, and for the record, after returning from my few days away I had over 80 support requests to deal with. I spent 5 hours straight answering each and every one of them yesterday. If only I could charge LL my usual hourly rate...

@Xero - well said!

_______________________________________________________________

---:: Animazoo animations - The best dances in SL - Smooth AOs - Freebies ::---
.

I have experienced the 'dread of logging in' too, and do have a kind of 'consumers anxiety' when it comes to purchasing goods in SL now, after undelivered or disappearing items, has left me very cautious and less likely to buy.

I would just like to thank Dave, for resolving just such an experience, very understanding and excellent customer service, thank you.

I would like to see LL do something about this for once,... a lot of money is being lossed along with products missing thanks,,,
Destiny Babeli

This is an unhappy SL resident talking...

In the last months, I have been subjected to Inventory loss (more than 3500 items), undelivered items (4 occurrences - various vendors) and other asset problems.

Not only it takes a lot of time to try to find our way in the maze that is called SL support but also to have these problems fixed when it can be. It is robbing the user of a pleasurable experience in SL.

While currently in SL to enjoy RP, in real life I am responsible for new platform development of a financial services firm. SL would be a good place to implement some projects, but unless assets can be protected and transactions are completed ina secure way, it would be irresponsible to bring a corporate presence in SL.

Hopefully, these asset problems will be solved soon.

Thorgal

I eventually gave up on this, and hired someone to deal with my support requests, meaning that the whole asset server issue is now costing me a substantial amount of money every month.

But now the problems are getting so regular and so severe that my takings are noticeably down. Of course this also means that my support staff have to spend more time sorting out the problems - a double edged sword. At this rate, I will soon not be able to afford to run my SL business.

I love making animations for SL, but if things do not improve very soon, I will be forced to shut up shop. I'll simply not have the time and money required to keep it going under these conditions.

_______________________________________________________________

---:: Animazoo animations - The best dances in SL - Smooth AOs - Freebies ::---
.
_______________________________________________________________

@Dave

We, myself and my friends and many resis have lost many HUDs and many Chimeras with many many animations inside. I should calm down myself and say: Hey, just don't use any "no copy" animations with any HUD/chim/sphere! Actually that's all we have to do to stay on the fun side. Glad I can make an easy going decision. Glad I am not doing any business. Glad I don't have to manage other peoples troubles.

I totally understand the creators who work so hard to bring something into SL that make many residents smile and happy for a time. And that's what we are looking for. Many creations can only be done by a few designers, animators, whatever. So we need them, we want them to stay and keep running their creative work to bring us more and more new fun.

I don't want to say; Be like in real, be loyal and fair to your customers and shut down the vendors temporarily during this bug because "you keep selling ice cream in hell, don't you?".

I don't want to say; Inform your customers before they buy "hot air" by placing a huge warning sign on each SIM entry and each vendor too.

Almost every creator doesn't care for the support in SL well, for their virtual customers. And the support always starts BEFORE the money comes!!!!! Thats a very fat rule!

@LD,

Your first point is a very good one - I am giving serious thought to selling my dances as copy/no trans on my next release.

As for shutting down the shop when SL 'goes buggy' I can think of a number of reasons why that is not practical. For one, I am usually not available when SL goes wrong - since I live in the UK I'm usually tucked up in bed during peak times when it all goes wrong! Secondly, I hear that LL have started to send out in-world messages when things start going wrong these days, which I think should be enough fair warning for people.

I'm not sure I like the idea of putting up a sign saying 'you are buying hot air'! Since well over 99% of transactions go through with no problem, it would be at best misleading, at worst the silliest public relations move I've ever heard of lol!

Your point about naming vendors after their contents would be valid if I didn't sell over 350 products! Short of buying 3 sims and having a hugely complicated, un-user friendly layout so I could have over 350 individual vendors, there is only one practical way to offer my animations for sale - I have to make vendors that sell more than one animation at a time. I understand all too well the inconvenience this sometimes causes to ppl who have been let down by the SL infrastructure, and would welcome any practical solution that you might come up with! 350 individual vendors is not such a good solution though.

To say I run my business like LL I feel is a bit unfair - every single question or problem presented to me or my assistant has been answered in full. I have never, ever knowingly passed off a valid problem, suggestion or query presented to me, often going to great lengths to get hold of someone who has accidentally muted me (more common than many people realise). I have gone to great pains to offer the best support I possibly can, often causing delays of days or even weeks on new releases. I can really honestly say that do my best, as do most other shopkeepers in SL. I would dispute your 'fat rule' in the strongest possible terms!

On 'creative support': In addition to paying someone an RL wage to help with support, I have created information points offering answers to the 15 most commonly asked questions and placed them all around my shop. If you have any further ideas for 'creative support' I'd be genuinely interested to hear them.

And finally, I don't have a laggy and buggy business, I operate in a laggy and buggy environment, a situation that I try to make a lot of noise about (see the rest of this forum). Short of complaining to LL at every opportunity, what else would you suggest I do about it?

So, thanks for your comments, and thanks for the bump!


Regards,

Dave

_______________________________________________________________

---:: Animazoo animations - The best dances in SL - Smooth AOs - Freebies ::---
.

Thanks for the support and the copy version of the dances. Linden Labs could not find any solution with my inventory loss of "no copy" animations. So the problem kills all the fun. Making them copy is the only way out of it. Thank you!

I have also been affected by this issue and I want to urge Linden Labs to please sort this out as soon as possible.

signed

Sarah Yorkshire

I have also been affected by this issue and I want to urge Linden Labs to please sort this out as soon as possible.

Enough to pay to get nothing (

Animah Capalini

But they are coming!

I have also been affected by this issue and I want to urge Linden Labs to please sort this out as soon as possible. I think creation of an automated mechanism for store owners to validate an asset server failure and reissuance of items that were never delivered is the least LL can offer content creators and frustrated residents.

It appears that LL has found a way to automate recovery of lost items and runs the script every once in a while. LL should consider putting "Recover Lost Items" on a menu drop down, just like stop animations was added to fix other glitches that occasionally occur.

Zan Darkstone