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Can We Just Have OUR OLD SL back, please?

Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
11-20-2007 09:26
From: Chip Midnight
It always has been, but I keep hoping that one day LL will snap out of their "SL is the new web" fantasy and back into the "SL is a really cool virtual world" reality.


Have you seen the new IBM commercial that basically plays like it was written by a guy who was unimpressed by IBM shelling out money on SL?
Latonia Lambert
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 425
11-20-2007 09:40
FD, I'm sorry you've been unwell and quite understand why you don't have them out for sale but they are lovely :). I hope you will feel better very soon.
Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
11-20-2007 09:48
From: Chip Midnight
Such as making SL look like a current product instead of a holdover from 1995. One of the most common complaints I see in comments from people who tried out SL and didn't stick around is how awful the graphics are. I hope they keep pushing it forward until we can use shaders on objects, and normal maps, and we have better looking plants and trees, and volumetric clouds, and weather, and a hundred other things I can think of. Expect to buy a new graphics card every couple of years, and a new PC every 3-5 years. When was that ever not necessary to be able to run current software? Time and technology march on, and SL either tries to keep up, or it loses its ability to attract new residents, and keep old ones. A better looking SL is long overdue.


The people I know who tried and decried SL did so on the basis of "urgh ... it looks like ..."

They are all spoiled by true beauty, of course.
Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
11-20-2007 09:56
From: Chip Midnight
It always has been, but I keep hoping that one day LL will snap out of their "SL is the new web" fantasy and back into the "SL is a really cool virtual world" reality. The corporations who come and go from SL remind me of the ones that jumped on the VRML bandwagon back in the 90's. Everyone rushed to make their e-commerce sites 3d. They were clunky, inefficient, annoying, and now long dead and buried, replaced with far more sensible and efficient 2d websites. SL and virtual worlds in general will never be a replacement for the 2d web. Some things will just always be better in a simpler medium. They should stop trying to be all things to all people and get back to focusing on their strenghts as entertainment and communication platforms.

I've always thought that one of SL's greatest strengths, and one of the primary drivers of its economy, is the fact that it's a walled garden where even a hobbiest can find a bit of fame and fortune. I read about things like the joint venture with IBM to develop portable avatars and related assets that can travel between worlds and I see a future where hobbiest user created content is replaced by corporate owned, mass produced, Walmart-ian monopoly, where the VR content market belongs entirely to people with multi-million dollar advertising budgets and distribution channels. Then again, maybe I'm just a cynic who thinks Snow Crash was overrated. ;)
Oh I am so going to run in and spend some money in your store when I get on later. :) I wish we had a Thank You button.
Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
11-20-2007 10:08
From: Ricardo Harris
Of course you need to move forward, to progress. This is the way things are done so there's no complaining there. But before you try to move forward, make sure what's already here is running the way it's meant to be. Don't try moving forward while you haven't taken care of what's already here.

Makes no sense and you will always be taking two steps back for every one you try to take forward.

They don't need to go back to the old sl, all they need to do is fix this one first before adding new things.



My sentiments exactly!

I wonder if the Skins industry need a major rethink in the way they make them from now on? I know some of my expensive skins look crap during most of the SL day cycle in Windlight........there's only a small window where they appear to be ok.

As far as the lovely water movement and reflections in Windlight etc...HipiHi already had that in their Beta product, so i guess SL is just catching up.
Ava Glasgow
Hippie surfer chick
Join date: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 2,172
11-20-2007 10:24
From: Cocoanut Koala
I went to the Jira and found someone else complaining about that, but the issue was declared "fixed."

About a month ago I checked the windlight JIRAs that I'd voted on, and found that ALL had been declared fixed. A Linden comment on them indicated that they were all closed because windlight was in development again (as in not public), and that people should refile the JIRAs if the problem still existed after the next release.

So if the one you are looking at was an old one, check to see if that's why it was closed. If you still have the problem, I'm pretty sure you can reopen it.
Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
11-20-2007 11:04
Thanks Brenda :)

Colette, I haven't seen that commercial.
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Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
11-20-2007 11:27
From: Brenda Connolly
Oh I am so going to run in and spend some money in your store when I get on later. :) I wish we had a Thank You button.


Snow Crash WAS overrated ...
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
11-20-2007 12:16
From: Chip Midnight
Thanks Brenda :)

Colette, I haven't seen that commercial.


Ive looked for it on the net with no luck.

Basically it has one young looking guy saying how cool his virtual avatar is and he even owns an Island! (complete with cartoony animation) "Its innovation!"

The more serious man he is showing it to is unimpressed "Can you make money with it?"

The younger guy says "Virtual Money or Actual Money?"

"The purpose of Innovation is to make ACTUAL money" the serious man says

"My Avatar doesn't know how to do that yet" the younger guy admits.

It basically plays like IBM having a conversation with LL and telling LL it isn't a serious business platform.
Thunder Starbrook
Registered User
Join date: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 98
11-20-2007 12:31
*Disable Voice.
*Set draw distance to 64.
*Lower Avatar, Mesh, Tree etc detail to minimum.
*Disable Shiny bitmapping or whatever it is.
*Turn off clouds.
*Turn off grass.
and..
*Disable windlight.

Its just more crap i gotta turn off or disable so i can actually move in SL.

Seriously though, the lindens have built a car.
Its got a wicked paint job, big fat wheels with chrome hubs, underglow lights, go faster stripes, a kick ass stereo system with a huge sub in the boot, dvd player in the back, nitro's system fitted. There's only one problem, it breaks down every 200 meters.... but the next thing there gonna do is add some cool looking spot lights.
Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
11-20-2007 12:55
From: Colette Meiji
It basically plays like IBM having a conversation with LL and telling LL it isn't a serious business platform.


hehe, or one part of IBM making fun of another part of IBM.
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
11-20-2007 13:17
From: Chip Midnight
hehe, or one part of IBM making fun of another part of IBM.


perhaps both.

Or the Ad agency making a point about someone other than them selling IBM on SL ...


If it shows up on youtube ill post a link.

My guess is it wont since its not really very funny.

The Geico Caveman commercials on the other hand ..
Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
11-20-2007 13:27
From: Chip Midnight
It always has been, but I keep hoping that one day LL will snap out of their "SL is the new web" fantasy and back into the "SL is a really cool virtual world" reality. The corporations who come and go from SL remind me of the ones that jumped on the VRML bandwagon back in the 90's. Everyone rushed to make their e-commerce sites 3d. They were clunky, inefficient, annoying, and now long dead and buried, replaced with far more sensible and efficient 2d websites. SL and virtual worlds in general will never be a replacement for the 2d web. Some things will just always be better in a simpler medium. They should stop trying to be all things to all people and get back to focusing on their strenghts as entertainment and communication platforms.

I've always thought that one of SL's greatest strengths, and one of the primary drivers of its economy, is the fact that it's a walled garden where even a hobbiest can find a bit of fame and fortune. I read about things like the joint venture with IBM to develop portable avatars and related assets that can travel between worlds and I see a future where hobbiest user created content is replaced by corporate owned, mass produced, Walmart-ian monopoly, where the VR content market belongs entirely to people with multi-million dollar advertising budgets and distribution channels. Then again, maybe I'm just a cynic who thinks Snow Crash was overrated. ;)

Exactly, and I couldn't agree more with your every word.

coco
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
11-20-2007 13:45
You know, skins and whatnot (and some house walls) look like crap because Windlight isn't NORMAL.

It's like "Imaginary Landscape," a painting by Asher B. Durand, from the 19th century.

ww.cyberattic.com/stores/momentsintime/items/399093/item399093cyberattic.html

(I've taken away the first "w" in that, so this page won't scroll.)

Only even more awash with color.

Now for fantasy landscapes, Windlight is very good. For atmospheric realism, it's not. It subjegates other colors to itself, including avatar color, object color, and even interior colors.

In addition, its sun is a harsh master, rendering darker sides on prims in daylight, and crisping trees and other details.

Now, what painting do we want to live in? You could pick any style, from any age; from impressionists to old masters whose sky was so flat and solidly blue it looked you couldn't really breathe the air in them. Right now, we've got an over-saturated Asher B. Durand.

Point is, where art is involved, imposing a strong style on top of what is supposed to look realistic can be overwhelming. Particularly when it washes out any and all original color.

coco
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Susanne Pascale
Registered User
Join date: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 371
11-20-2007 13:46
From: Thunder Starbrook
*Disable Voice.
*Set draw distance to 64.
*Lower Avatar, Mesh, Tree etc detail to minimum.
*Disable Shiny bitmapping or whatever it is.
*Turn off clouds.
*Turn off grass.
and..
*Disable windlight.

Its just more crap i gotta turn off or disable so i can actually move in SL.

Seriously though, the lindens have built a car.
Its got a wicked paint job, big fat wheels with chrome hubs, underglow lights, go faster stripes, a kick ass stereo system with a huge sub in the boot, dvd player in the back, nitro's system fitted. There's only one problem, it breaks down every 200 meters.... but the next thing there gonna do is add some cool looking spot lights.


EXACTLY!!!! [applause]

....but what are you guys constantly whining about? Sure..performance may be "suboptimal" but we're working on fixing bugs [and have been since at least of May of 07] but LOOk at the NEW hood ornaments!!! woot woot!!

Sooz
Seifert Surface
Mathematician
Join date: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 912
11-20-2007 13:57
It isn't possible to go back to a previous SL, not just because LL don't want to, but really because the SL of today deals with many many times more people online than the SL of a year, or two years ago.

If LL had done no development at all, and somehow the population had still grown to the size it is now, it would be entirely unusable by everyone. We can certainly compare the stability now with the stability then, but it would be a mistake to imagine that LL are bumbling around making it worse rather than trying (and generally succeeding) to keep up with the population explosion.
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
11-20-2007 14:15
From: Seifert Surface
It isn't possible to go back to a previous SL, not just because LL don't want to, but really because the SL of today deals with many many times more people online than the SL of a year, or two years ago.

If LL had done no development at all, and somehow the population had still grown to the size it is now, it would be entirely unusable by everyone. We can certainly compare the stability now with the stability then, but it would be a mistake to imagine that LL are bumbling around making it worse rather than trying (and generally succeeding) to keep up with the population explosion.


Of course the massive population explosion was one of the new "features" as well.
poopmaster Oh
The Best Person On Earth
Join date: 9 Mar 2007
Posts: 917
11-20-2007 15:23
no you CAN NOT have the OLD SL back
***** NOT YOURS *****


the new one is better


and you smell wierd
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Seifert Surface
Mathematician
Join date: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 912
11-20-2007 16:20
From: Colette Meiji
Of course the massive population explosion was one of the new "features" as well.
Well, so rolling back to the old SL of a year or two ago would also involve banning all accounts created after that point, and not allowing any new sign ups.

I don't think there will be many people who would agree that that would be a good idea.
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
11-20-2007 16:33
From: Seifert Surface
Well, so rolling back to the old SL of a year or two ago would also involve banning all accounts created after that point, and not allowing any new sign ups.

I don't think there will be many people who would agree that that would be a good idea.


Well technically no. Just all the no payment on file people. Since the others already registered "the old way"

------------------

I'm not saying we can go back ..

What I am saying that part of the scaling requirements are due to their own business plan of allowing open registration.

Its like getting married and being surprised you have inlaws.

------------------
Since its totally unrealistic to go back to the old way it isn't any more unrealistic to speculate on Time travel "coulda beens"
Teeny Leviathan
Never started World War 3
Join date: 20 May 2003
Posts: 2,716
11-20-2007 19:53
Change is inevitable. Unfortunately, there are many here who can't blow a big chunk of a mortgage or car payment on computer upgrades. It would be nice if LL made a deal with a retailer to offer discounts on certain Nvidia based video cards. Not just any old crap, but cards that can capably run SL. They don't have to be high end cards either. I'm not including ATI based cards because they have historically had issues with SL.

Of course, there are those who are really in no position to even upgrade hardware. For them, Windlight should be optional. Give the ones with slower machines at least a year to upgrade to this year's Windlight before moving the performance goalpoasts and killing support for non-Windlight viewers. Four years ago, SL was mostly for enthusiasts with fast machines. Today, its moved closer to the mainstream casual user. These users have to be addressed because they will outnumber the enthusiasts someday.

Then again, there are the alternate viewers. As far as I know, none of them support Windlight. I'm sure there is someone out there who could continue non-Windlight support even after the Lindens make it mandatory. Just sayin.
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Darkpoet Magne
Dances With Penguins
Join date: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 201
11-20-2007 20:15
I just want to know a way to keep from the fatal drop in FPS that I get when I use windlight. Currently I am using the onrez viewer, because so far it gives me the best FPS without sacrificing decent look. My comp is not bad at all, its a beast. But windlight drops my FPS down to below five. I'm getting 30-40 with onrez right now.
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Light shines dimly from an empty sun.
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Numb pain, blood drains,
Fading light, blurrng sight,

Heartbeat stops lungs give out,
Breathing stops as blood clots.

Eyes glaze in a bloody haze of the final days.

A wooden box holds a rotting corpse,
Six feet deep on the devils porch.
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
11-20-2007 20:27
From: Darkpoet Magne
I just want to know a way to keep from the fatal drop in FPS that I get when I use windlight. Currently I am using the onrez viewer, because so far it gives me the best FPS without sacrificing decent look. My comp is not bad at all, its a beast. But windlight drops my FPS down to below five. I'm getting 30-40 with onrez right now.


wow ..


Ive never gotten 30 before ...

Closer to 10

Does that mean im doomed if I try WIndlight?
Susie Boffin
Certified Nutcase
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,151
11-20-2007 20:31
I want to know how we can educate people not to post oversized posts in this forum...ahem.
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Jig Chippewa
Fine Young Cannibal
Join date: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 5,150
11-20-2007 21:27
I just came on to read my post and feel much rewarded by the discussion. I sense other issues arising from this post that I am going to start up in another thread. For example, I am convincedthat for some of us there is an expectation of sl being technical and "sharp" simply because we have been acculturated in our real worlds to expct technology gimmicks as part of everyday life. On the other hand, I spend much of my life in the Far North of a HUGE country and even cell-phone use is limited to environs of my town. Thus, my SL expectations are basic - I use it to communicate. Other people lead razzle-dazzle lives technologically speaking. I hav a VERY expensive computer system that suits the needs of my career and my free time. BUT, I think we must place a moratorium on new things being thrown at us so that we can adjust and apply the more recent technologies to SL just to make sure that they work. Comments?
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