The Voice Rush - it has caught on amazingly quickly hasn't it?

I'd love to sweets! I'm usually on at night after about 8 SLT (earlier on weekends though). I'll try calling you in-world and hopefully you'll come hang out and have fun with us! I have a large property with a hedge maze and playground and beach and whatnot. We can fly or drive or have fun on the jetskis...or peep on my neighbor and make faces while he's "occupied" - hehe. I owe him a couple of those!

I can be a good listener for you if you simply must have someone listen to you while you air out this information. To be honest though, it really doesn't hold a whole lot of interest with me. Sorry

I mean, I've already conceded that he, like everyone else, is entitled to his own opinion. Besides, it's his land to do with as he wishes. So what else is there to say. But sure I'll listen. I've sat through conversations even more boring than this one before and even managed an occasional convincing smile now and then.

So go on, don't let my disinterest discourage you from forging on ahead, I am listening...

*Yaawnnn* ..."oh, excuse me. Hunger yawn"

Well, having a bit more information might help you to make a more informed opinion about the state of Caledon, no?

Oh, no, just hold onto your little assumptions and say hmmm. No worries, I shan't disturb you in shattering your assumptions.



Sarcastically... which could be read wrong.



Then why do you post?

By the way... you don't become a successful estate owner by "doing with the land as you wish". Desmond has a style, no doubt about that. Sometimes he's got a bit of the P.T. Barnum in him... but that makes him so much more fun But he's a serious estate owner and he listens carefully. Perhaps your real issue is that he enabled voice in the first place, by giving people a choice and trying to solicit feedback about it before making any decisions one way or another? Has this disturbed your sleep? I'm so sorry...

Actually, he's been very vocal about the voice issue, especially with how they are preferencing the mainland over private sim owners by insisting they upgrade to the 295 tiers. He was in There when they went to voice and has talked very regularly how it split the community asunder.



Yawn, yeah... its hard to attempt conversation with people who assume first and observe later. Pat pat on the head dear, don't let facts confuse you

That echos my usual experience with it. I have had nice experiences here and there... but its always been a situation where I was in the presence of fun and witty company, and not too many at once. More bad than good, unfortunately for spatial voice chat.

I really like voice IM though, with people I like.

Let's be clear on this, I am not bashing Mr. Shang or Caledon. I just feel a need to inject that tidbit in here because some are chosing to, for some reason, make that an issue when it is not. The issue is the self-serving hype alluded to in his original post. This is obvious judging by the majority of responses on this thread. Perhaps if he had of couched his opinion by specifically mentioning that this is the case in Caledon, he may have been accurate. Although there have been several Caledon resident's who have posted on this thread who feel differently. So that there is some indication that not all in Caledon feel the same way. So don't take it personal. I am simply alluding to the post. It is hype, based on a personal and very limited observation by Mr. Shang and within the scope of the preceived voice usage in his own land. He has even gone on to correct his initial observations on a later post.

So do take a deep breath and relax, but by all means continue ... I am listening

I can effectively 'conference' a telephone/internet meeting, with a group of folks whom I know, add one or two strangers.

What I am still trying to figure out is: in a "3D" environment, with everyone's 'presence' primarily visual (personal avatars), does having voice chat generally enhance social interaction (especially with new friends/strangers whose voices are not familiar to you)?

I can't see how, when there is no effective (as yet) linkage between avi-owner voice stream (active/inactive) and the visual 'behavior' of the avatar. Linking voices to beings is, even for the non-sighted, I'm told, an essential component of social interaction.

I am quite probably somewhat 'out of the loop' here, but if all the avi's are animated using talk gestures that loop endlessly whether the owner is speaking or not, how the heck does anyone figure out which stranger ever IS actually doing the talking?

Are people really taking the time, ongoing, every time they step into a new group of strangers in voice, to type-chat "this is me" each time they speak into voicestream, until everyone knows who everyone is?

Seems unlikely, but essential, in this venue.

And if there is no script-behavioral link between voice stream signal and avatar animation, what IS the point?

I think voice IM, and voice chat for folks who have RL-SL bridges between avi owners, is a great thing...but it will not and cannot enhance the general societal experience until voicestream is successfully linked to avatar behavior/tags.

I give it two years before a more realistic spatial sound model replaces this one (:



Currently you can set up gestures to fire when your voice hits certain volume levels, and these can trigger scripted events.

That is one of the main reasons I have started avoiding social situations in Caledon. I am seeing more and more of those 'Folks are moving around, changing outfits, but its been silent for 5 minutes' sessions indicative of voice users ignoring text users.

I consider desmond a friend, but I question his interpretation...I HARDLY consider 10-20% of his 50 contacts a day a raging success....that TRIVIAL implementation....we already knew from the forums here that SL had a good 20-30% RABID voicers, people that just HAVE to have voice....you just KNOW its so cool, so techie-hip to exclude texters. </sarcasm> Caledon being an RP area, I would expect less, and that is what I am seeing, less.

Even in Caledon, social interaction has dropped considerably since the advent of voice, in smaller groups. Thankfully, larger events are still mostly text. I found this link from our caledon forums, and it appears the voice-users are already assigning derogatory terms like 'muties' to non-voice users. For my own part, I will continue to hang out in Caledon until its as silent as most of the mainland clubs I used to go to, then I will move on, like I did from those clubs.

Ah yes...you knew the time would come--I'm here to fill the gap.

I'm pro voice. I think most of you knew that. However, I in no way treat texters differently--nor have the people I'm voicing with.

What I've noticed is that texters have no problem listening to voicers talk. And voicers have no problem responding to their texts. If a texter decides to disable voice completely, that is their fault, and they are the only person to blame when we ignore them--if they aren't listening to the topic at hand (on voice) then they will be left out, and no blame can be placed on the voicers. If you have disabled voice completely, you have no grounds to make any accusations. There has to be a compromise for things to run smoothly--if voice is disabled, there is no compromise. If your excuse is that you don't want your family or household to hear all that jibber-jabber, than get a pair of comfortable headphones. If you complain about headphones being uncomfortable...well...that's just silly.

Just because you have voice enabled, does not mean you have to talk. Listening and responding via text is perfectly acceptable.

There are tons of comments on the forums that constantly slander voicers exclaiming that we are discriminatory and ignoring. In all honesty, I have never witnessed this. I have been in many balanced group conversations, and there never seems to be a problem. I honestly think some of you are hanging out either in the wrong areas, or with the wrong crowd.

On a side note: I think it can get messy when there are a lot of people present--but then again, it's always messy with a lot of people present.

I think the key word is compromise. On my end I've noticed that as long as texters have voice enabled, no one is ignored. Voicers don't mind responding to texters...it all happens rather naturally. The problem arises when a resident chooses to completely disable voice--that is where problems arise.

I have no problem with your choice of voice or text--I have a problem with those that purposefully defy one or the other.

Very good points on all sides. What if a person liked SL to begin with, becuase they are deaf and cannot hear the voice. SL text chatting would have been a godsend to communication for them. I understand that you cannot make everyone happy, just trying to add a different spin.

To keep on spinning, I have a friend who is legally blind who loves second life and voice has really opened things up for her.

I am glad it helped her. For me, its damn near destroyed the SL experience and is getting worse every day. Basically, I no longer can go to any of the clubs I used to go to, so I retreat to Caledon. NOW, I can only go to big events there....since voicers are ruining small gatherings. Hypatia (sp?) mentioned hanging at the governor's mansion...last couple times I was there, it was the 'people moving and doing things, but no chat' situation and I wrote it off to folks being busy..but I suspected voice. Now that has been confirmed...no need to go back there to try to socialize.

To be honest, I am hoping LL really sticks it to the sim admins for voice older sims....all but ONE of my holdings are on older sims that would revert back to non-voice under the current plans for Caledon in the event of major costs. I love Caledon, and If LL raises sim rates across the board in '08 (as they have hinted at ending the grandfathering of old sims), I will gladly pay it...however I will NOT pay increased rent for a feature I loathe (and who's users I have started to equally loathe due to their odious behavior).

After having been asked to leave an area for being non-voice, being referred to as a mutie (and MUCH worse), I have ALL my land holdings with voice shut off. There is noting a voicer has to say that is of interest to me....if its that important, they can get off their dead asses, let go of the mouse (and whatever else they got hold of that prevents typing) and TYPE IT!

The deaf approach, although righteous, isn't really a valid concern--not because we don't care about those with disabilities, but because companies can not design their product around a minority--this would be bad business.

I've been in SL for many years, and I've never, in my knowledge, run across a deaf person. Yes, I know you're saying, 'well in text chat, why would they need to tell you?' and you'd be right, they probably wouldn't...but that does not change the facts and figures of deaf percentages worldwide--which are few and far-between compared to those able to hear.

The deaf argument can easily be likened to the blind. Why didn't Second Life create voice earlier to cater to the blind? Only makes sense right? If you fight for one, you have to fight for all disabilities--and we all know this does not make sense in the majority of 'products' available to the public.

With all due respect, I haven't seen a single instance of voice "ruining" Second Life. This is not propaganda, this is absolute honestly. I can't fathom how some of you are so distraught by voice, and somehow run into problems the majority of us don't. I'm not denying your claims, and I'm sure you believe what you say to be true...I just don't understand how you can be so black and white about it.

I have been all over--to many different events, situations, and traffic counts...and I simply don't see a problem. If there is ever a griefer bothering you...mute them. Simple as that.

If you are hanging out in sims where griefers run rampant, well then voice isn't the issue.

I've found the majority of residence are willing to compromise--the few of you that shut voice off completely, and complain about it all the time...you're not compromising. What if--let's say--sim owners that enjoyed voice had the option of making you use voice...would that be fair? Perhaps your answer is, 'well, I wouldn't go to these sims'--well, now you know how some of us feel about shutting it off completely.



This is absolute rubbish. Voice isn't the issue, the crowd and sims you hang out at are. I've never heard a citizen even come close to saying anything like you stated above. I would almost go as far as saying you're making it up...it's just that incredible. However, if it is true, it's an uber-rare occurrence, and it is irresponsible and thoughtless of you to relate all voicers to such an ignorant one-time statement. And you retaliating by changing all your land to non-voice is ludicrous. I think you'll find that karma has a way of biting you in the ass...this is a perfect example.

I generally agree with Michael about compromise. In the situations I've been in so far people seem to be getting along fairly well. I don't use voice, I am still using the PreVoice Nicholaz client so I can't even listen in, which is fine with me. The few voice users I've encountered have been more than willing to switch to text only when speaking with me.

I have a microphone. I have voice enabled. I seldom use it. I never initiate it, but three people have requested that I voice with them and I have. All three of those were friends already. I do not voice with random individuals. In general, I find voice almost completely unusable. I tend to really like music. And in general, the voice is so quiet that it is hard as heck to hear it unless the music is turned either completely off or almost completely off. For me, that's really a deal breaker. In truth, while I'm not rabid anti-voice, I do like the deliberateness that typing introduces and the relatively slower pace that goes along with it. For me, the single largest use for voice is to get past the "are you a girl in RL?" thing.

A couple things to consider...

Turn down your music a little bit--unless you’re rockin' out hardcore, you should be able to hear voicers just fine--as long as you're in the vicinity. If someone is still too quiet, you can select them in the voice dialog box, and crank them up. Problem solved.

Why do you find voice 'completely unusable?' Please specify. If it is wonky, and doesn't work...then you may be among the few that have strange hardware or software configs that break the code--contrary to popular belief, the majority of citizens don't have problems.

You said that you like the slow deliberate pace that goes along with texting--but let me share my view: even though I'm somewhere around 70wpm on the keyboard, I can still cover around five times more subject matter using voice. Not only do friends and I share many more stories and anecdotes, but many more subtle meanings, innuendos, sarcasms, and character traits come out using voice--text is much more sterile than voice...perhaps some of you prefer sterile.

And let's not even compare business meetings--time is money, and voice is much more efficient. And for those that want to record everything in a meeting...I suggest you learn how to take 'minutes'--it works even better than IMing...because it's selective and pinpoint. If the conversation begins to delve into figures and key elements, you can then ask the client to go to IM for recording purposes--but general chit-chat during a meeting doesn't requiring logging.

Anyway...I just wanted to respond to some of your comments Brandi.


Ps. what program do you use to import your text--we are getting your 'code' as well (i.e. <bold></bold>...stuff like that is coming through. At least it is for me.

0mg Michael, you are so rude! Do you ever review what you write before you hit that submit post button?

You just condescendingly called this man all types of liar for no reason whatsoever. Are you in his skin? How do you know what he has experienced? Are you so caught up in your own self-righteousness that no one can ever disagree with your point of view or experiences without you jumping out of your skin and lambasting everyone who disagrees with you or your point of view?

Although we differ in our points of view every once in awhile, I do get the impression that you try to be nice. You just have a very odd way of expressing that "niceness." And then as if to somehow soften the blow, you add all of these smileys and "will all due respect" comments after the harm has been done.

Please take the time to take a deep breath before responding to a post you disagree with and then take a minute to re-read what you have written before punching the submit button.

Learn to agree to disagree and accept the fact that other's opinions are just as valuable as yours.

Theres nothing quite like complaining about supposed persecution of voicers by belittling non-voicers, is there?

Don't bother to point out his rudeness, Cheyenne. I've dealt with this odious individual in other threads. What he says comes down from heaven conveyed by angels, its so truthful (in his eyes) and anyone that has had a different experience than him is oviously a liar or just doesn't understand how right he is. Its his standard ad hominem 0debating mode for him. I consider him more entertainment in a thread, of the 'Oh gods, can he be THAT CLUELESS and condenscending?' variety.

I have no doubt he has never run into issues with voicers...he IS one of the rabid ones, and I am betting he goes to other areas filled with Rabid voicers and most if not all his friends are chatroom refugees.....so I seriously doubt he ever encounters that many texters in his aol-chartoom version of SL. So don't chastize him for being rude, pity him for his ignorance.

First off, this may come as one HELL of a shock to you, but compromise isn't giving YOU what you want (AKA, my land voice enabled), compromise is BOTH sides not getting everthing they want....which is exactly what you get when I and others turn voice off. YOU have to learn to live with voice off on my land, I have ot learn to live with it on on yours. Neither of us get what we want. That is compromise. What you want is to win and call it compromise...ain't happening, egotist, sorry if it hurts your precious sense of self-esteem to have others make different choices than you, but that's the nature of compromise.

And if the sim owners forced me to use it, I'd leave the sim. With all due respect to my sim admin whom I consider a friend (and yes, LL screwed him by turning it on for private sims to try to hook people and force him to upgrade after originally saying it would be mainland only unless island owners paid), he originally tod me it would be off, waffled, turned it on for economic reasons. I can understand and empthize, but I am not keen on being told one thing and having another happen and have told him that. If I have to pay extra in Caledon for voice in 2008, I leave, also told him that. So, in answer to how would I feel? I'd not bother me, because I would leave the sim...they can't force me to use it....or to like those that use it.

You know, with your style of posting, you are one of the MAIN REASONS I detest voice users.

PS. And I don't believe in Karma, or any other form of ignorance, er, religion. So nothing is going to happen because I dare to go up against St. Michael, patron saint of voice fanatics by disabling voice on my land. Get over it and yourself, my land is mine and I will do with it as I please.

No, not really. I tried it. On the beta grid. I rarely got "heard."

I did try voice but people either didn't hear me or heard me 'breaking up' so I put it down to PC or connection problems and put Voice back on the shelf for the time being - although I'll still use it for listening from time to time.

Typing as a genuine Linux only freak. I don't have voice. I have the option to turn it on if I want to make the client crash a bit quicker, but it doesn't do anything voice like if it is on.
I see no hovering dots over peoples heads and am blissfully unaware who may or may not be having a voice conversation.
I don't particularly want it mind you. But having experienced a voice enabled SL with no voice of my own, should it ever finally work on the Linux client, I'm sure I'll be keeping it off.
[ Yet another reason why Linux is so cool ]

Voice for linux is "coming soon (tm)" hehehehhe

It makes a good choice - some actively get involved speaking, others just listen and dont speak, but reply in text... others prefer no voice at all as it "spoils there experience" - its all down to personal choice! who's to blame anyone...

personally I have voice on and use it extensively, but I appreciate that some are shy/dont want/feel its nor "right" - each to there own

Regards

Norf