region menu gone?

I finally log into SL and was about to TP to a new area only to find the region selection menu is missing. Whats up with that?

It's in the release notes. They took it out because the list was too huge to be very useful like that. I understand they've added a Find region search thing now, but haven't seen it myself, as SL came back up too late for me to do much poking around.

The giant list is gone, replaced with a lookup table that allows you to enter a few characters from the beginning of the name of the region you want to and it will let you select from the choices that match.

This type of search is adequate, but not a good as a general sub-string search that could find strings in the middle of region names instead of requiring that you type the first few letters.

For example, a general sub-string search would have enabled one to find all the sandbox sims, including the Linden owned Cordova, Goguen, etc., as well as the privately owned Mature Sandbox and any other region with sandbox in the title.

There is already general sub-string search in the Find dialog, why that part of the programs capabilities couldn't have been added to the region search for the map I don't know.

Why there isn't also a list to browse through I don't understand. Even if the complete list for browsing through was on the website instead of in the user interface I feel sure there are users who want to read the list of region names.

http://secondlife.com/vote/index.php?get_id=677

just a little proposal to bring back the old system, if anyone feels like voting.. I know that I liked having a list of all possible sims at my fingertips, especially because alot of sims have odd names and the ones I pick up in conversation are not always spelled correctly..

I like the autocomplete a lot.

However, I'd like to see a whole listing of publically-accessible sims somewhere. It could be one giant table. Or maybe a toggle mode for the map that shows all the names in columns.

I agree that it doesn't really make sense to use a combo box when the list is so large, but on the other hand I've definately had cases where I want to browse all the regions. How bout adding a button next to the region name textbox. When u hit the button, we could have another window pop up with a list of the names (with or without multiple columns depending on how wide the window is sized to). Then clicking (or maybe double-clicking) one of the names in that window would make the map jump to that region (like the old combo box used to, but apparently the new find region functionality doesn't).

Not sure how 2 windows like that will go for the folks with a smaller resolution though. A slight variation would be to make the actual map area smaller and show the list down the left hand side of the map window. The button would just be to toggle the list on/off then. I think that'd be a very tidy solution. I've done a little mockup in case it's bit unclear, and cause I'd really like to see this one implemented. (BTW... I've used a list of landmarks in the pics just to show my point, but of course they'd actually be region names.)

Nice concept, Kermitt—but I think with so many regions, it'd be a good idea to have a multicolumn display to make fuller use of the screen. It's still a chore to scroll through, even if shown.

List too long to be valuable? Who decides for me what is valuable and what isn't?

I used that region list every day. Now I do agree it's nice to have a "region search" function... but that doesn't mean they have to totally delete the existing region listing. I'm curious... was this ever put up for vote? Did LL ever survey their clients to see how people felt about wiping the region list? How does this work... things we want have to go through an extensive vote process... but if LL gets a wild hare idea, they just do it?

It's their company of course. But our money. Seems to me just another thing that makes SL more difficult to use.

Wayfinder, While I know it's not the same as having the drop down list right there in the map view, there is a list of all sims available at http://www.roamsearch.com/regions.php for reference. When they fix the secondlife:// hyperlinks in 1.7 these will also be able to initiate a teleport.

Rathe man that link totally doesn't stand out for those in need.

ROAM Regions! w00t.

And what else can you do with ROAM Regions that you can't do inworld?

You can...

1. Search parcels not listed under Find Places
   
2. Check out related piccies from Snapzilla
   
3. Cross-reference data a LOT faster than inworld
   
4. Look for similar places
   
5. and more!
   

Roam definately looks like a nice site, but I think I'd still like to see a basic region list within the SL client as well.

ROAM Regions is well on its way to being like Cloud's 6-part sword from Advent Children if it keeps this up. Meanwhile, the old basic Region list is like a rusty Lv. 1 dagger. I feel no rippleshock out of it. It is cold and ugly.

The problem with the earlier implementation was it was too basic. It's like feeding a teenager Gerber... where's the growth? So even if it was brought back exactly like it was remembered, it very much points to—

I had this mad tosser of an idea, the whole MULTI-COLUMN arch, and am so pleasantly surprised to see Rathe went ahead and did it. I was literally SCREAMING at him excitedly in IM the other day.

Especially in the clime of such an improved map display, we all deserve better!

There's this virtual synthesizer I used to use, Synth 1—it had great management of so many sounds by storing 128 in separate banks triggered by buttons. The wondrous thing is, even with 128, it didn't show them in a single long list

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8

It showed them in... yup, you guessed it, MULTI-COLUMNS!

1 5
2 6
3 7
4 8

The screen real estate is there, it could stand to be used better. And o, faster scrolling speeds, more snappy like how the inventory works. BOUNCE!

ROAM REGIONS is one very fine example of a Resident-created tool doing some of what the client can, and even more of what it cannot.

(And to be on the edge, maybe even some ideas from it will be used in Second Life? Like how after Snapzilla launched, secondlife.com's front page started showing images.)

First, the ROAM listing is great.... if people know it's there. Doesn't however, adequately replace an in-game region listing.


In actuality, I have no problem with a SEARCH REGION function replacing a REGION LIST function-- if it had been done correctly. But like so many LL "features"... it's been done halfway as a result is now pretty much useless.

If they'd wanted to do this right, they should have implemented a "descending options" search that would provide a scrollable list for all regions beginning with a letter as soon as that letter was entered (for example, entering N would show all sims beginning with an N). Then as successive letters were entered, the search would reduce in options until the proper one was found.

Imho... the "new" method of requiring a user to enter 3 characters before any kind of listing comes up cripples the region search and renders it pretty much without any value whatsoever. How is someone supposed to find a region if they can't remember the exact name? One of my constant complaints with LL is coming up with a basically good concept- then doing it halfway and contrary to all prior established computer theory and logic. That seems to be what has happened here.

I think of it like a meal sidekick right now... my blog entry on this offers more thoughts+feelings.

Hopefully showing functionality like this will encourage more great features for finding schtuff inworld! Without it existing, it's just... ideas. But this goes beyond proof-of-concept.

It's what I call a "lateral nudge". Again, not dissimilar to how heightened awareness of Snapzilla in the community may have influenced secondlife.com's showing of pictures.




I hear ya! Or to search for PART of a name, for example with


peeps will still be looking for RAUSCH.

I don't know about the compsci aspect, but I have a YUGE personal focus on intuitivity.

Also I'm sure you've noticed something else odd, Wayfinder: the way in Find Places now there are TWO find boxes! I thought it was a bug until it was pointed out to me the rightmost find field was for REGIONS. But what for? It doesn't have a label saying "Regions"... and it sure doesn't even autocomplete consistently like the Map's does! So it confused me greatly.

Hard to search for "No" now, huh?

I dunno if there's a database limitation to this, the way you have to enter several characters of a person's name if you're looking for People.

I just hope things will keep getting better!

Well, we've let Cyn Linden, a tech and Lee know about this problem. Hopefully Linden Lab will recognize this as a "not-un-major" issue and get right on it. Frankly, I'd rather have the old excessively-long list back than the current useless system. At least with the old one I could explore sims in some kind of logical order and keep track of where I'd already been. Sure, a person can do kind of the same thing by using the map... but the map often changes as new things are added or shift position. We need a viable, usable list that preferrably conforms to search/list concepts that have existed for decades.

And as you mentioned, a "search within" option should be present.

the way it is now you have to know the first 3 letters of where you want to go....nevermind not being able to go through all the sims in alphabetical order for fun.

I think they should leave the feature as is, but limit it to 1 letter and then drop down all the sims that start with that letter...it would be a good combination of the old and the new.

The real anti-intuitive part of the new implementation is that in order for the esarch to be effective, you have to KNOW THAT A SIM IS THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE! It boggles the mind that something as simple as this is overlooked. If I want to finc somewhere I haven't been....a more and more frequent occurance as the list of sims grows, then how do I know about them without the list?

I thought I'd throw this out here just for the fun of it, because it occurred to me and a couple of other people. Not that I really believe it, but hey, just for the fun of mentioning it.

In a thread called SIM OWNERS TAKE NOTE-- YOUR SIMS ARE SHARING SERVERS we presented a large project that was undertaken by Elf Clan to prove that Linden Labs was stacking sims on servers. We proved it-- by visiting every sim on the grid and taking sim ID readings. Project took 12 people two entire days. The ensuing thread was very lengthy, very involved, and blew the lid off of some LL practices.

The upside: hopefully realizing that users are not utter morons... LL now seems to be more communicative and open with users. Because of this, some sworn-LL-haters now are easing off a bit and giving LL some room to wiggle on bugs. So it was a forum war with good results-- we hope.

The Conspiracy Theory: LL doesn't want that to ever, ever happen again. So a "griefer" takes down the entire grid-- effectively resetting every single server/sim in the grid and switching all the sims to NEW servers, completely invalidating the extensive sim sharing database that had just been collected. This effectively prevents sim owners from checking "sister" sims and performing extensive lag tests to prove server issues-- as there is no other way to detect what sim is sharing the server.

Then to make sure it would be very difficult for such a database to be created again-- the MAP/REGION system is now disabled so that someone pretty much has to already know the name of a particular sim to visit it specifically. (Of course the map itself could be used... but ever try to find a specific sim by searching through the map?).

Just a conspiracy theory. -- or is it?

Muaaahaaahaaahaaaaaaahaaaaaaaa.............