Camping Chairs are BS!

Camping isn't the only way of getting your store listed higher in search, paying high fees to LL does the same. That's not based on word of mouth either.

I'm Curious to know how one would go about banning them? I don't see how it could be Managed from the Software side without Affecting a lot of other scripts that are not Impinging on people. It COULD be a ban Similar to the gambling ban in which Owners putting them out could be penalized, But then, removing them, Distinguishing between someone who is camping, and , Perhaps dancing, Role play Cleaning, or just Chilling in the beach would become VERY problematic. The situation is, camping can and is being done with more than Just Chairs. Does the investigator speak to the dancer Three times, then remove the dance Ball if they don't get a response? I could really see how that would not work well.
IF i were of a Criminal bent of mind, i would Disguise the camping Chairs as Part of a Multiplayer Puzzle Game (No Cash payout) and have fake Conversations pertaining to the game put out by the Chairs themselves. How could you regcognize it then? The players are Active, apparently Conversing, To any outside View, Not camping, but just playing a game.

Where would you Attack the camping Chair problem in such a way as to disrupt it without Disrupting those who are Not Camping?

Angel.

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm still not sure about that heuristic.

For example.. if I search for "skin", then I'll get everywhere that mentions skins, but a shop which has just the one word "skin" in its name will get to be the top because of the 100% match with no extra. This encourages the store owner to make a 16sqm parcel for each keyword they want to address.

Also, isn't there a risk that if I search for "female skin", I wind up still getting all the guy's skins mixed in with my results, because the word "female" is ranked down due to all the "hot female strippers"? (Um, ok, that might not be a common word. I didn't search for female strippers recently. But it's an example)

Simple fix... buy your own Sim?

Don't act like you are helpless. You can end camping if you wanted to.

Get the word out, form groups, do what ever you have to do to stop supporting places that use campers. I been doing this a while now. I make sure my friends are educated.

Camping is the biggest problem there is in SL. People are getting replaced with bots. The extra load on the servers and we all suffer. Camping has to go, stop supporting it.

If everyone does their part, camping will end and the traffic system will work as intended. Why would you want to support someone who is exploiting the traffic system.

Who do you think is paying for those campers? You are when you support that business. You are paying for those campers. Don't do it!

I posted a JIRA issue for tag-based searching a while back, it makes it much easier to do a kind of traffic system based on search-results and relevance rather than time-spent in a place:
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-172

Traffic is fairly meaningless anyway, to get high traffic you have to keep people at your location, but if you own a well-designed store, it shouldn't take long for a person to find what they want and leave again to make use of it.

Meanwhile places that are so laggy as to have no appeal whatsoever get huge traffic numbers because of the amount of camping.

Finally found the statement to back up my abuse report suggestion:

They should just count premium members in traffic

It is VERY simple for LL to implement
It doesnt massively change or abandon the current traffic system
It would get rid of most camping (as premium members can afford not to camp)
It would get rid of camp bots

The argument commonly used against it is what about all the valuable non premiums who do contribute, why wont you count them?
The anwser to that is traffic is used to determine which shop is most popular. A shop that is more popular will get both more premium and non premium visitors, so just counting the premiums WILL correctly allow you to identify which shop is most popular.

I sincerely hope that the Linden statement above isn't official policy.

What it essentially means is that LL are washing their hands entirely of the traffic-gaming issue - meaning that private island ownership will become the key aspect in attracting traffic.

Hmm well think of it this way there's 15,000 of sims and only 25,000 people online and half of them are bots, heaps of room

Search works fine, you just ignore the first 20 or so entries, which won't show your keyword anyway....................................

Yep, like when the Ozbournes move in next door, simple, buy a new aparment block to live in.......................................

Aside from the usual inaccurate PR puffery, LL will do NOTHING about traffic or campers until someone on their "cool" list gripes about it. Until then, there is no other choice but to put up with it. Its not going away anytime soon.

Sooz

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camping benefits everyone

its cheap advertising for sim owners ...
its better than a rotating porn ad looking down your chimney
or messing up your pretty 2D view

campers get some money ...
who may have no other way to

it lets you know there is activity on a sim
that you probably would ignore except for the little green dots of campers

it helps businesses or events get off the ground, or stay alive

camping on one sim does not affect the rest of the grid

and some sim operators are placing camper platforms at high elevations,
to avoid congestion and to not disrupt the view

if you dont like campers or sims or businesses that support camping
then leave it ... ... oh! but you do anyway ...

i imagine everyone probably wastes more of their time on SL
than just landing on a sim with campers they dont approve of

much an overdo about nothing

and when it comes to Puffery ...
there is way too much Mayflowerism by Premium Members



.

Uhm, the main issue here is that camping chairs can actually prevent land-owners from accessing their own land. I've had it happen to me a while back, and had to keep trying before I could enter the sim where 'lo and behold, a club is in the corner of the land, taking up 1024sq m (same as me) but with 30+ avatars on it. All because of these new-fangled camping chair gadgets.

.

Haravikk Mistral


im sure most everyone will agree with you ...


but here's what i dont understand ...

if you chose to exist on Second Life,
that has created a platform and an environment
for the sole purpose of not only imitating real life
but also fostering the very worst of what real life has to offer,
then why are you here?

to my best understanding, nearly everyone is allowed
to own or rent land on SL wherever they like,
if they can afford it, and are qualified to

but hey ... if things "a while back", did get too
congested for you, and you are concerned it may
happen again, then why not do what real people
do in real life ... pick up you objects and prims
and move to the suburbs of more open and quieter spaces ...

moving to another sim across the great wide expanse
of Second Life's Grid, is definetely one thing that is easier
to do on SL than in real life ... you dont have to hire movers



oh ... but maybe your one of those who has the
profound personal ethic of not mixing Real Life
with Second Life, and consequently you feel
that on Second Life, you are entitled to your world
and your imagination as far as you can extend it
from where you plant yourself.

and no one else has any rights but you ...

i'll be sure to keep in mind not to move near you,
because as a Human, i do understand how badly
us Humans stink to you Furries, and i certainly would not
want to offend you any more than i already have,
and have to hear your howwwlllls of disdain towards me


but ...
did it ever occur to you that just maybe the goals of
your world and your imagination may be at odds
and in conflict with the goals of Second Life's World
and Second Life's Imagination?

that Second Life has an ultimate purpose and objective
that might be diametrically opposite of yours?

that your real life expectations, and your real life feelings
are not in sync with Linden Labs, and that your real life feelings
are profoundly mixed in with your Second Life?

everyone hates something, or is mad about something on SL
and where do you suppose all that hatred and anger
eminates from? Fantasy Land?

so, a club with campers moved near you ...
well people crash, people cant log on, people lose their inventory ...

isnt Second Life considered a Game by most people?

well if it is a Game, then what kind of Game would it be,
if the Game did not have its inherent pitfalls along the way:
the annoying clubs, the campers, the login failures, porn ads, the lag,
the griefers and all ... ... all are the inherent parts of what makes up ...
THE GAME

but then when something annoys someone ...
then all of a sudden its not a Game anymore? ... (i laff out loud here)

but then who knows, you might be one of the few exceptions
on Second Life, who knows that its impossible to separate
their real life from Second Life, and that Second Life is
not a Game at all ...


however if you do enjoy the drama of real life that much,
then it wouldnt surprise me in the least, if your Game will be playing
the Games of Dramas to do whatever you can to get rid of that
Club, and its campers, and whomever and whatever else that griefs you ...


after all ... its people who play games



.

What in the heck are you even arguing here? I'm not on SL to behave exactly as I do in RL, in RL I can't just up and build a stable 300ft tower with nothing but a mouse and a keyboard.


Because "a while back" I /was/ in the suburbs of SL, a nice little quiet residential sim full of nice quiet homes on the edges of the map. Then suddenly one of the home-owners decides to sell their land for whatever reason and a person buys up the land, turns it into a club and fills it with camping chairs.
Suddenly a person owning 1.5% of the land in a sim, suddenly is using 100% of the sim's avatar capacity. Even if I'd wanted to move my land I couldn't get to it to sell up in the first place!


So being imaginative implies facism? You'll have to explain that one.


All my neighbours in my current sim have human avatars, I never have, and never will, take it upon myself to behave ill towards them because of their choice of avatar, I'm human in real-life! A large number of my customers have human avatars, a number of my friends prefer human avatars.
You're saying that because I'm a furry I'm some kind of elitist, racist person who judges based on choice of avatar? Yet in saying such a thing you show yourself to be exactly that. Maybe some furries have an irrational dislike of human avatars; I happen not to be one of them, so kindly think about your own judgemental mentality before trying to attribute it to me.
Hell, there's even at least one Linden who wears a furry avatar, you trying to suggest they hate all the human Lindens?


So if Unreal Tournament 3 were to be released, you got to play it and constantly crash, drop connections, lag and find it full of porn ads, then you'd be perfectly content to shell out $50 or whatever for it?

These things are not part of LL's design for the game/platform. Yes there are strange, weird, objectionable things in SL, but most of them keep to themselves, or you have to go seek them out. But if people are actively damaging my, or anyone else's, enjoyment of SL then that is unacceptable.

It's like in real-life, I'm happy for you to be whatever kind of person you are. But if you came to my house and put a fence around it so that I couldn't get in, then I'm going to have an issue with that.

Second Life is a game only in the very loosest sense. You can 'play' it just for entertainment, but even when you do that a lot of the time you are interacting with other people or using things other people have made. If I come on here to enjoy myself, then I don't expect to find myself unable to access my own content (that I'm paying for) just because someone wants to artificially inflate their traffic value by using more of a sim's resources than they are entitled to.

The quote from Torley already proves that mine and LL's views on the matter are wholly compatible, I don't care if a private island fills up with camping chairs, it makes me /less/ likely to go due to the horrendous lag I know will be there! But if they're ruining mainland sims for other people then it's against the terms of service, and we can now get action against such people.

I think moderation is the key word here. Balance. I undestand businesses wanting to game the system to produce traffic results...but to be greedy about it is an entirely different story.

Instead of adding massive amounts of camping chairs to your property, why not try being a little more proactive and creative in regards to gathering attention. And when I say proactive, I mean other than by adding chairs.

For example, The L Word has a pretty popular sim--they do not rely on camping to bring the traffic (and keep it there). Instead, they've created a high quality sim, with several differerent cool hang-out locations. Social places. Not morgues. This kind of thing brings traffic, and could never be frowned upon--even if they didn't own their own island, the amount of traffic is deserved. Life isn't fair I suppose...