Torley, a clarification and re-appeal:group tools have nothing to do with land tools.

I don't know how many times I've posted about this, and now my concern is with Torley's recent response is that Linden -could- be missing some things on this -- so I have to speak up on the matter.

It wasn't even a week ago since Robin replied in regards to my inquiry about improved mainland tools, and when I asked in a townhall a month ago if the mainland was going to get improved land tools similar to the estates, Philip's answer was simply 'yes'. And I want to also make a point that I heard Robin's response loud and clear, and accept it. However:

For the most part I just want to place all of the concerns on -one page- for future reference.

I want to get one thing straight, and I mentioned this last time -- Group tools, while they are *excellent and sorely needed*, have NOTHING, NOTHING and NOTHING to do with the absolute LACK OF RESOURCES mainland sim owners or parcel owners have to combat griefers/bombers/etc. (I do not want to preclude them, but they are NOT the same subject)

Every time I mention this, Linden says, "Oh, but we're giving you group tools." -- Allowing Joey to build on your land has nothing to do with keeping Anarkee Kaos from -bombing- your land. I need to say that as clarification and distinction.

As for an overview of the issues:

We have a 40 meter ban which does NOTHING. It is a symbolic gesture which AT BEST causes attackers to float above you and fire from *there*, if you are on the ground. Second story buildings exceed this ban height. I have never seen a plane fly 'through sim' at 40m, and I strongly disagree with the ability of an individually banned pilot to be able to do so. We have point to point teleport now. Blocking in people is simply not an issue.

Simply by virtue of being in an aircraft , it seems, that I would have MORE protection rights on someone else's parcel than I have when standing on the ground in my own!

Now, I agree, that an increased ban height should NOT apply for access lists, do-not-enter parcels or group bans (which do not exist on the mainland yet, either) . But for those who are explicitly banned, I do not see why their unhindered flying experience somehow outweighs the right of those on the ground to not be bombed from only slightly above.

Also, Luskwood's ban list has been full for well over a year. Groups, prims, everything else has increased since 1.0; this hasn't.

I can reiterate these points, until I am blue in the face. Every time, the subject seems to simply get dropped and forgotten. But, I'll dutifully outline them again, in addition to the ban point explained above.

We cannot deal with the griefer volume anymore. SecondLife is at 220,000 residents with 7000 on at a time. Mainland protective tools HAVE NOT CHANGED since version *1.0* of SecondLife, when the entire resident roster was 2000 residents, with 150 on at a time.

Ban is symbolic and ineffective. As I explained above. The 40m height is ridiculous, which can be demonstrated here . Aircraft simply does not fly at 40m, and *IF IT DID*, I do not see the logic in allowing an individually banned person, in other words, a KNOWN persona-non-grata, to hover 40m over an area where they are EXPLICITLY banned from. This is simply NOT about contiguous experiences and freedom of movement anymore.

Ban doesn't do what it could. I see NO reason why when someone is banned from a parcel, the system should not immediately *return all of their items, and stop all of their scripts on the parcel*. They're banned; this means whatever baggage (sim crashers, C4, etc) they brought with them as well.

Eject is meaningless. Eject simply juxtaposes them to one of the corners of your parcel, and again, gives them a nice vantage point to keep shooting you from. On a small parcel, it's even more laughable. It literally moves them ten feet away from you.

Estates have seen massive improvements with nearly every update. The mainland has never seen a single improvement. I have a hard time believing that developing these tools for the islands are a walk in the park, and they are near impossible for the mainland. Until it can be explained otherwise, I figure that it must be a matter of priorities: Estates get priority over the mainland.

The severe disparity has caused an unnatural concentration of griefers on the mainland. Troublemakers go to where it's easy. If they mess with an Estate, the owner can simply shut them out and their 'fun' is over. With mainland sims, the fun never stops. Griefers flock to the mainland because they know they've got the upper hand.

Even "security systems" cannot deal with group griefing. Sendhome scripts are good for one griefer at a time. When five show up, our hands are absolutely tied. We can hope that LiveHelp is listening, but that's about it.

Even Liaisons have verified that calling them is not very effective. We can't call a Linden every time we get attacked. Nor do I want to. Several Liaisons have also underlined the point that if they cannot show up *RIGHT* when a particular attack or event is happening, there's not much they can do. We have had one individual attacking us repeatedly and regularly since Februrary. We are largely at this person's whim.

If Linden is no longer dedicated to the mainland, we need to know. Because for three years, we've been dedicated to developing it. We currently operate three contiguous sims on the mainland, but a single island owner gets more features, control, modern tools, and dev time than any mainland build - no matter how big. If Linden Lab is deprecating the mainland, then we need to focus our efforts elswhere as well. But we need to know.

The "popular question" : "So then why are you guys on the mainland / why didn't you get an island instead?"

1) We DON'T want to be insular. Islands provide a SIGNIFICANTLY different experience than does a mainland sim. We are NOT trying to be an insular walled-off, unwelcoming community. For us in Luskwood, this simply is part of the way we built our community. We are "of SL", not simply "in SL". We're just asking for Linden Lab to meet us half way and provide us the neccessary administrative tools to fix an increasingly overburdening problem.

2) We made all of our significant land purchases before islands existed. We weathered through a LOT to get built up to where we are now, and our initial outlays are equal to, or more than, that of the island startup costs. Our monthly costs are equivalent to them.

3) If we leave the mainland, what comes in our place? We still believe (though others may beg to differ) that we provide a very good experience in SL, very much in line with what the 'spirit of SL' is about.

... However, even our regulars are getting frustrated and spending less time around, because inevitably, almost every night, any event we try to have or simple gathering, is bombed or crashed into oblivion.

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So, I just wanted to make this clear, as to what is at stake here, and why people like myself and Luskwood, Travis Lambert and The Shelter, as well as Tikki Kerensky's recent post on the issue
We (Luskwood) had recently met with Linden Lab in world on the issue. And we were told that these tools were going to come. I want to make sure that that is not lost or forgotten: Philip said "yes" to my question about whether or not the mainland will get Estate tools. This is absolutely on record in the townhall, and he even said that LL "probably should not have deployed those tools until they were ready for the entire grid." (my paraphrase.)

So, in this, I want to make sure that I am not ignoring Robin's response from last week: I understand that Robin has told us that these issues were NOT forgotten. I just wanted to outline this need to make sure more of us are on the same page and that folks know what is what.

We aren't asking for much, we're simply asking for some help.

Thanks,

Michi - we hear you loud and clear. I think the response has to be that we will try to work in parallel, to fix some of the worst problems while we continue to move toward broader solutions such as covenants. I'm going to start with this list and see what we can do in the short term. I'll post more in my blog as I get something in place.