Linden Labs VS GOM

A company is a hungry animal. It has neither friends, family nor religeon. It is aggressive in guarding it's assets, and speedy in exploiting new revenue streams.

As much as I may like the GOM, they are trading a currency invented and run by Linden Labs, in their metaverse. They have been on borrowed time since day one. Why would Linden Labs stand idly by when there is money to be had from an invention of theirs? They owe nobody a free lunch.

If a Linden says good morning to you, that is as much a part of a planned, practiced and rehearsed corporate plan as their launch of a currency trading programme. Yes they seem nice and friendly. But let's face it, seeming friendly is how you get the customers in the door and keep the tills ringing.

They are a company. See my first paragraph. Companies are about making money. And the linden dollar is the creation of Linden Labs. If anyone is going to be exploiting it for money, LL will be at the top of that list.

And that goes for every single other resident owned business. Do this sum in your head. Is it worth more to Linden Labs to leave the business in your hands, or to take it over? If it's worth more to Linden Labs to take it over, you're finished, unless you manage to compete and fight off your competition. That's business.

Really the business world is not a place for emotion or nice people. It is like a chess game. It's quiet, it's logical, and it's about winning.

UR absolutely right but I don't have to like it.

LL'll win this one too when they integrate the Speedtree engine. I'll be lucky to ever sell another tree when residents can simply create realistic, windy plants from a pool of hundreds of textures. It's a double rub because they won't actually make any money from residents rezzing trees. It's only a small advertising point.

Okay I'm being melodramatic; my plants will still sell for various reasons. But Speedtree will severely invade my market share. Who's gonna pay my tier and other online services fees that Fate Gardens covers now. Does the TOS not stipulate that LL are responsible to maintain my income once my inworld business is successful?

I'll take compensation if it's offered (tic); but I'll not ever request that Speedtree be abandoned. It's a radical improvement that SL desperately needs to compete in the VW market when it becomes a viable market. That can't be too far away and LL has to do everything possible to stay ahead of the crowd.

Khamon I love you. Let's make AV babies.

Ok what if there was no speedtree.... and you made it a reality and integrated it into the world...the whole time in contact with LL as they are intrested in your work and helping to fix any flaws in their code to help....say you worked on this for a year and then one day LL came to you and said " you know what you have is nice but all the residents have to come to you for this and we want to integrate it into the GUI so anyone at anytime can do it"

You explain to them how it works and they say " come to California and we'll discuss it more" after this discussion takes place you realize that one way or another they will implement this into the GUI and the best you will get is a sum of money you consider inadequate and developers stock.

On a tangent, has the possibility ever been closed out that Residents won't be able to use SpeedTree to create "realistic" trees of their own? It'd be cool if it was integrated as an open-access toolset (I doubt some of my fave plants are going to be part of the stock presets), but I don't know the technicality of it. Then, Khamon, you could continue your organic work!

No, the possibility has not been ignored or denied. We've been told that the initial library will be so huge that all the textures will not be made available at once and also that user applied textures may be possible, but will not be an initial feature. So we can take that as their word for what it's worth.


Talen, I wouldn't be a bit shocked by the scenario you described. It's how cutthroat, sorry innovative, software development companies have succeeded the past couple of decades. Philip has invested millions of dollars and most of his professional reputation on this project. It's a nobrainer for him to feed off of us and sweep us under the rug to advance the mission of saving the world by creating a better one. Wouldn't you?

Not at the cost of my reputation.....Remember the Motto..."Your World...Your imagination"

Eventually Sl won't be the only world to play in ....

More like, "Our World . . . Your Labor."

coco

Given how poorly they've managed customer relations, stability under load, user interfaces, and client QA, the first credible competitor will blow them out of the water. I think Philip knows he is living on borrowed time, hoping like hell to get SL2 out before EA eats his lunch.

It is said that the true test of a person's character is how they act under duress. Watching Philip play dirty has been... umm informative. No, capital doesn't care, but people do and in the best of all possible worlds, should.

Businesses as animals endeavor to "win", but the definition of "winning" is not always and only making money. For example, LL is backed by some really incredibly people (like Mitch Kapor and Pierre Omidyar for example), who by no means have "make money" as their only objective. These are people who no longer need money, and are interested in SL because it has the chance of achieving a very different kind of winning. I can guarantee you they would never have invested has LL been simply a clever money-making opportunity.

A working business is an emergent animal - defined by the fundamental values of the team and the investors, and in cases like SL, the people who choose to use it. If as residents of SL you decide not to use it, there is no business any more - so we are bound together in decision making. It is sad but understandable that cases like this dicsussion around GOM drive some of the folks in the community to rush to the judgement that we are suddenly shifting to focus soley on money.

And in response to Malachi's suggestion that the next competitor will "blow us out of the water", I respectfully disagree. Let's wait and see. I think that the necessary complexity of the core systems in SL will be made all the more obvious by the challenges that will be faced by businesses trying to copy it. Moreover, I think that LL has a truly unique culture that fits deeply with the community of SL. I cannot fathom how a company like EA could possibly have fostered the kind of community that has been built here thusfar.

Thanks for the reply Philip. Your rhetoric is as compelling as it always has been. Somehow I don't feel a sense of community in Second Life anymore. It's unraveled for me over the past few months and seems more like an animal chasing it's tail than an emergent population with a common goal of enlivening a vision of the future.

I've not even the desire to itemize feature requests or argue the constructiveness of APIs or distribution with you anymore. Your animal has trodden my spirit into the mud and won the day. From now on, I'll just gonna be a user selling trees to support my other online pursuits as long as the business earns a profit.

I wish you and LL the best of luck and urge you to find a way to rally the loyal supporters you still have.

Khamon, I'm sorry you feel that way. I thought your example of SpeedTree was yet another great one to add to the other's I've posted. Do you think that we should, per your discussion, NOT implement SpeedTree?

Anyone who iz wonderin' about SpeedTree can go here for more info:

http://www.speedtree.com/

And also check out this press release for background:

http://www.speedtree.com/press/PR_Second_Life_Chooses_SpeedTree_March_22_05.pdf

I was at Nexus Prime the other day and it made me think what could possibly be done for biomechanical or alien foliage. I think there's gonna be a good market for that, that hasn't been worked into yet.

Philip, sorry to butt in, but did you actually read Khamon's post in its entirity?



Your question was already answered.

I have a few responses to this part of the statement. If it refers to me, I would state I don't believe myself money is the only type of winning a company can achieve. Far from it. There's dominance of a market. Dominance of those who use a market. Many types of power. All kinds of ways you can 'win'.

Do I now think Linden Labs is a friendly company? Not for a second. Linden Labs is exactly as I described it - just like any other company. Ruthlessly focused on winning. And for Linden Labs, in the case of it VS Gom, it decided it's objective was its' internal currency trading thingymajig, no matter what GOM does. So be it. Linden Labs is a company and when victory for the company is placed in a certain direction, the company will throw it's weight behind getting there.

Any pretence by any member of staff that the company is not acting in the best interests of the company insults the intelligence of the company's customers.

I should probably state I don't actually think Linden Labs is bad. Just a business. There are casulalties in business. That's the way it is. I think no less of Linden Labs as a business. I just say take it for what it is, not for what the glossy brochure says.

Personaly I think SpeedTree is a bad example when compairing to the GOM situation.

Now if Khamon had been the author of SpeedTree, it would go something like this...


Khamon: "Hmm, the trees in SL are severly limited, I think I'll create a tool that makes better trees" Khamon goes away and creates SpeedTree and finds a magic way of integrating into SL via LSL and XML-RPC (yes... don't even say it.. this is just an example..)

LindenLab: "Hey Khamon, those are great trees you have there. How do you do it"
Khamon: "I spent a year and a half creating this great app I call SpeedTree"
LindenLab: "Come to SF and tell us all about it, oh and don't forget to bring your source code with you... "
Khamon: "You want to integrate my SpeedTree into SL UI, way kewl"


... several months later...

LindenLab: "Greetings citizens of SL, we feel it is too difficult for new users to add trees in SL so we are integrating a new tool into the SL UI. It will be called SeedTree. It is exactly the same as SpeedTree by Khamon, but it is not his, honest. We hired some kid to write an exact copy. So you see it's really our work, not his.. and of course ours is better because ours has direct access to the core resources of SL whereas Khamon's has to go through the halfass implementation of XML-RPC we gave you..."



This is what has been done to GOM. It is nothing to do with LL simply adding more "features" to further enhance SL, as been sujested by specific Lindens. This is LindenLab forcably taking over the business of a 3rd party.

Some interesting comment here. The SpeedTree issue is particularly interesting to me.
Khamon's trees are probably state of the current art in SL and I recently purchased a wide range and spent a day replanting a sim wide project with them as they simply blew the existing (Linden and third party) trees out of the water - I wanted the best, so I got them.

However, if/when SpeedTree becomes available I will adopt that technology.

It made me think a bit. Khamon's attitude to the inevitability of change is realistic, However it doesn't really parallel the GOM issue. It's just a matter of the best current technology being supplanted by superior technology, which is more or less inevitable and without which process progress cannot occur.

However, the GOM issue, as I understand it, hardly involves startling new technology.
From what GOM have told us it simply involves a reworking of current technology and LL moving into what is, to them, a new field.

Exactly what went wrong between GOM and LL will probably never become clear, considering LL's unwillingness to bring their side of the negotiations into the public domain. Though their unwillingness to state categorically that GOM's version of events is incorrect does tend to cause one to believe that GOM's version is substantially accurate.

Both parties seem to have handled this poorly. GOM could and should have been provided with, or required, some form of formal agreement or at least a memorandum of intent before entering into discussions, and particularly before exposing themselves.

Something anyone else dealing with LL, or any other business for that matter, should take note of!

LL seem to have taken advantage of GOM's relative naivety in the world of business to proceed in a completely cavalier manner. This was fine all the time the residents of SL knew nothing of the process. However, in apparently cutting off communication with GOM and not replying to GOMs attempts to discover what was going on they have damaged their own in world reputation badly, possibly irreparably - whoever made the decision to proceed thus has made an incredibly bad decision...

On the other hand, GOM, having made a terrible error (above), have then compounded it by neither having, as far as I can see, or adopting, a 'plan b'.
The GOM system has always been envisaged, as far as I can see, as a 'market'. Not so much aimed at allowing easy access to L$ purchase for LL customers simply wanting to buy a little cash to spend in world, as at people who want to 'play the market'.

Their recent change of interface is hardly a step in the right direction, as, although the functionality IS there, the presentation is hardly user friendly, especially to a new user.

As I have said elsewhere before, GOM should have a cleaner clearer system, primarily focused on easy access for customers buying relatively small amounts of L$. The 'trader interface' should still be there, accessed by an 'expert' button.

That, backed by a better in world presence - more ATMs (and I'm STILL waiting for mine guys!) with a lot more functionality and the ability to accept normal CC transactions would have given LL a little more pause for thought. And improved GOM's negotiating position no end.

Can GOM still compete with LL's offering?

I believe so. If they adopt the measures outlined above and allowing for the fact that, due to the 'trading' element of their business, which should ensure competitive exchange rates, and LL's silence about any 'cash out' facility, which is of obvious concern to in world concerns accepting payment in L$, it seems highly likely that their volume will not be massively affected. At which point an 'easy pay' in world and website based system will represent real and effective competition. Which can only be good for residents.

However, it's rather sad that, due to both parties getting things horribly wrong in various ways, it's come to this. A more reasonable, cautious and sensitive approach on both sides might have resulted in a win/win/win situation for LL, GOM and the residents, without a great deal of drama, LL damaging it's credibility and GOM finding themselves in a rather difficult situation.

Hopefully lessons will be learned all round.
Possibly the two principals can manage to step back, think carefully and maybe sit down with a clean sheet of paper and, putting the previous mess behind them, do it again, but do it right this time?

THAT would go a long way to restore the faith of many people in the integrity of Philip's oft stated ideals, allow GOM to contribute to the enterprise and get things back to something resembling normal once more.

'Normal'? In SL? WHAT am I SAYING?

This whole situation seems to focus on the classic situation of Intellectual Property (IP), which is yet to be defined entirely satisfactorily in this electronic era. A situation which relates to GOM and the wider question of copyright and trademarks within SL.
I have been involved in a project which was stolen by Mc Donalds and the lawyers were like you win definitely,just get someone to give you the $300,000 to take it to trial :/....and on the other side I worked for a satirical political show that makes fun of copyrighted brands and characters ,so I ended up working with them to copy as close as possible the originals without getting sued.

What I learned: 1/ If your idea is so simple and really easy to copy.....you are stuffed
you cant copyright a simple idea.

2/ If you copy something really closely with the exact functionality....but just change the name and color and look slightly....you are fine.You arent pretending to be it you are riding on the wave. Pushing this close to the line is where you need lawyers. If your drink is called KoOka KoOLah mmmm but Pepsi is fine.

3/ If you are discussing your products , services ,or creations with others and certain crunch questions are being asked. The ones that are key to the technicalities of your thang. BE AWARE of everything you say, skirt round them leave them out, or if they are really simple completely overcomplicate and bamboozle (my fave)." You want to work it out....work it out...I did".

These are the realities of a so called free market and I think it sucks the big Kahuna Burger.In SL these situations are put under the magnifying glass and somehow ignored at the same time ....:/.

China is screwing our GDP with its cheap forgeries....erm....... you are like buying them all lol. Confuscious say "Clever Dog who eats own tail must be very very hungry indeed"

Amen

Moopf, you are right, I didn't read where Khamon said he agreed we should release it. Sorry Khamon! So I agree - we need to release it. If we don't, someone else will.

Talking about a single community is a typical melting pot american perspective.

SecondLife is child of the world and is therefore a mosaic of communities and only when it accepts this and alters its management culture to work under that assumption can it succeed.

The forums, of course, are one community. Fortunately, not the only one.

That is rather like saying "A dog is a vicious attacker". SOME companies are hungry animals, this is true. All companies are hungry animals?

Publicly traded companies tend to be profit oriented. Even some businesses that originally were founder-oriented personality cults (such as Ben & Jerry's) become much more money driven over time after they go public or are acquired.

I think LL is a Ben & Jerry's style private company that earns money because they have to in order to do what they want to do. Ben & Jerry's founders wanted to "do good", and built a business as a way of killing two birds with one stone: Make a living, AND do good. I think LL wants to make a living, AND build a metaverse. Metaverse first, money second. At least, for now.



Literally, you are saying that what a particular business "is" changes over time.

Even if the mission statement remains the same, circumstances change, and a decision making process might shake out differently at one time than it does at another.

I think some residents do not find this to be a legitimate defense. If you said, "we're doing this because we want the money", people would say, "fucking faceless corporation". Situation explained.

But you say it isn't about money, its about "the community". That's not easier to understand, that's harder to understand.

Having planned to appropriate a resident's business concept for a long time is not a defense either. Maybe it is a logical predicate for "nobody should be surprised", but it certainly doesn't make it OK.

We mushrooms do not have all the facts, so it is unfair to pass judgement. We cannot help but form opinions.

Buster

I think you are greatly deceived if you think for a seond any for profit company is about "good". Ben and Jerry's, Linden Lab, you name any company you want. Companies are all about winning, being the best they can. If they ever see anything in the way of what they want, they take it out. You think sweet and kind Ben and Jerry's would have stood by as a competitor released competing ice creams? You think they wouldn't go into competitive mode and fight it out with them tooth and nail? You're decieved.

Really, lesson for life here, companies (excepting not for profits and registered charities) are NOT about goodwill and anonymous gifts at Christmas. They are about winning, about being number one, about beating the competition, about being the best. Philip Linden says he values the community and he wants Second Life to be nice etc. I don't doubt it for a minute. That's his product. His company's success is riding on community and Second Life being nice etc.

But he's not doing it as a duty to mankind. He's doing it to make Linden Labs succeed, and he's acting as the company CEO, which he is. You can like Linden Labs, no law against that. But if you will be here, try to be here informed. Look on a company for what it is.