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The Gold Standard

Patch Lamington
Blumfield SLuburban
Join date: 2 Nov 2005
Posts: 188
06-07-2006 09:08
From: Zonax Delorean
It's insane to propose a gold standard in the modern world. Money isn't physical, and has no needs to be (and to be backed). Money is numbers today.


Yeah, the idea of having a currency more real than the stuff its used for (c'mon this IS a virtual world after all) is quite amusing.

Anyway, as wikipedia notes:
From: wikipedia
Nevertheless, countries under the gold standard underwent debt crises and depressions throughout the history of its use.


Mind you, didn't think I'd see Alan Greenspan and Hizb ut Tahrir on the same side of an economic argument. Though I don't know what Alan or the radical Islamicists think of Second Life :)
Ranma Tardis
沖縄弛緩の明確で青い水
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 1,415
06-07-2006 09:21
From: Patch Lamington
Yeah, the idea of having a currency more real than the stuff its used for (c'mon this IS a virtual world after all) is quite amusing.

Anyway, as wikipedia notes:


Mind you, didn't think I'd see Alan Greenspan and Hizb ut Tahrir on the same side of an economic argument. Though I don't know what Alan or the radical Islamicists think of Second Life :)


The original book "Wizard of OZ" was satire about getting rid of the Gold Standard and going to a Silver one. Dorothy was in the 1890's book wearing the "silver" slippers.
ReserveBank Division
Senior Member
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,408
06-07-2006 09:45
From: Kieran Rambler
Gold is not a steady value in itself. Right this second, gold is selling for $622 U.S. dollars for an ounce. This time last month it was at around $720 U.S. dollars an ounce. Those numbers aren't exactly inflation proof. We had a gold standard when we thought that money needed something else to give it value. We now know the little green things in our pocket are actually worth something without comparing it to a precious metal. Governments don't need a precious metal to maintain their currency. I may not know much about the economy in Second Life yet, but I can tell you that I would be seriously worried if the U.S. government thought gold would magically fix the U.S. dollar from falling through the floor in value recently.



Need I say more?



CAN THE U.S. RETURN TO A GOLD STANDARD?
By Alan Greenspan

The growing disillusionment with politically controlled monetary policies has produced an increasing number of advocates for a return to the GOLD STANDARD - including at times president Reagan.

In years past a desire to return to a monetary system based on gold was perceived as nostalgia for an era when times were simpler, problems less complex and the world not threatened with nuclear annihilation. But after a decade of destabilizing inflation and economic stagnation, the restoration of a GOLD STANDARD has become an issue that is clearly rising on the economic policy agenda. A commission to study the issue, with strong support from President Reagan, is in place.

The increasingly numerous proponents of a GOLD STANDARD persuasively argue that budget deficits and large federal borrowings would be difficult to finance under such a standard. Heavy claims against paper dollars cause few technical problems, for the Treasury can legally borrow as many dollars as Congress authorizes.

But with unlimited dollar conversion into gold, the ability to issue dollar claims would be severely limited. Obviously if you cannot finance federal deficits, you cannot create them. Either taxes would then have to be raised and expenditures lowered. The restrictions of gold convertibility would therefore profoundly alter the politics of fiscal policy that have prevailed for half a century.

Disturbed by Alternatives

Even some of those who conclude a return to gold is infeasible remain deeply disturbed by the current alternatives. For example, William Fellner of the American Enterprise Institute in a forthcoming publication remarks "...I find it difficult not to be greatly impressed by the very large damage done to the economies of the industrialized world... by the monetary management that has followed the era of (gold) convertibility... It has placed the Western economies in acute danger."

Yet even those of us who are attracted to the prospect of gold convertibility are confronted with a seemingly impossible obstacle: the latest claims to gold represented by the huge world overhang of fiat currency, many dollars.

The immediate problem of restoring a GOLD STANDARD is fixing a gold price that is consistent with market forces. Obviously if the offering price by the Treasury is too low, or subsequently proves to be too low, heavy demand at the offering price could quickly deplete the total U.S. government stock of gold, as well as any gold borrowed to thwart the assault. At that point, with no additional gold available, the U.S. would be off the GOLD STANDARD and likely to remain off for decades.

Alternatively, if the gold price is initially set too high, or subsequently becomes too high, the Treasury would be inundated with gold offerings. The payments the gold drawn on the Treasury's account at the Federal Reserve would add substantially to commercial bank reserves and probably act, at least temporarily, to expand the money supply with all the inflationary implications thereof.

Monetary offsets to neutralize or "earmark" gold are, of course, possible in the short run. But as the West Germany authorities soon learned from their past endeavors to support the dollar, there are limits to monetary countermeasures.

The only seeming solution is for the U.S. to create a fiscal and monetary environment which in effect makes the dollar as good as gold, i.e., stabilizes the general price level and by inference the dollar price of gold bullion itself. Then a modest reserve of bullion could reduce the narrow gold price fluctuations effectively to zero, allowing any changes in gold supply and demand to be absorbed in fluctuations in the Treasury's inventory.

What the above suggests is that a necessary condition of returning to a GOLD STANDARD is the financial environment which the GOLD STANDARD itself is presumed to create. But, if we restored financial stability, what purpose is then served by return to a GOLD STANDARD?

Certainly a gold-based monetary system will necessarily prevent fiscal imprudence, as 20th Century history clearly demonstrates. Nonetheless, once achieved, the discipline of the GOLD STANDARD would surely reinforce anti-inflation policies, and make it far more difficult to resume financial profligacy. The redemption of dollars for gold in response to excess federal government-induced credit creation would be a strong political signal. Even after inflation is brought under control the extraordinary political sensitivity to inflation will remain.

Concrete actions to install a GOLD STANDARD are premature. Nonetheless, there are certain preparatory policy actions that could test the eventual feasibility of returning to a GOLD STANDARD, that would have positive short-term anti-inflation benefits and little cost if they fail.

The major roadblock to restoring the GOLD STANDARD is the problem of re-entry. With the vast quantity of dollars worldwide laying claims to the U.S. Treasury's 264 million ounces of gold, an overnight transition to gold convertibility would create a major discontinuity for the U.S. financial system. But there is no need for the whole block of current dollar obligations to become an immediate claim.

Convertibility can be instituted gradually by, in effect, creating a dual currency with a limited issue of dollars convertible into gold. Initially they could be deferred claims to gold, for example, five-year Treasury Notes with interest and principal payable in grams or ounces of gold.

With the passage of time and several issues of these notes we would have a series of "new monies" in terms of gold and eventually, demand claims on gold. The degree of success of restoring long-term fiscal confidence will show up clearly in the yield spreads between gold and fiat dollar obligations of the same maturities. Full convertibility would require that the yield spread for all maturities virtually disappear. If they do not, convertibility will be very difficult, probably impossible, to implement.

A second advantage of gold notes is that they are likely to reduce current budget deficits. Treasury gold notes in today's markets could be sold at interest rates at approximately 2% or less. In fact from today's markets one can construct the equivalent of a 22-month gold note yielding 1%, by arbitraging regular Treasury note yields for June 1983 maturities (17%) and the forward delivery premiums of gold (16% annual rate) inferred from June 1983 futures contracts. Presumably five-year note issues would reflect a similar relationship.

A Risk of Exchange Loss

The exchange risk of the Treasury gold notes, of course, is the same as that associated with our foreign currency Treasury note series. The U.S. Treasury has, over the years, sold significant quantities of both German mark - and Swiss franc denominated issues, and both made and lost money in terms of dollars as exchange rates have fluctuated. And indeed there is a risk of exchange rate loss with gold notes.

However, unless the price of gold doubles over a five-year period (16% compounded annually), interest payments on the gold notes in terms of dollars will be less than conventional financing requires. The run-up to $875 per ounce in early 1980 was surely an aberration, reflecting certain circumstances in the Middle East which are unlikely to be repeated in the near future. Hence, anything close to doubling of gold prices in the next five years appears improbable. On the other hand, if gold prices remain stable or rise moderately, the savings could be large: Each $10 billion in equivalent gold notes outstanding would, under stable gold prices, save $1.5 billion per year in interest outlays.

A possible further side benefit of the existence of gold notes is that they could set a standard in terms of prices and interest rates that could put additional political pressure on the administration and Congress to move expeditiously toward non-inflationary policies. Gold notes could be a case of reversing Gresham's Law. Good money would drive out bad.

Those who advocate a return to a GOLD STANDARD should be aware that returning our monetary system to gold convertibility is no mere technical, financial restructuring. It is a basic change in our economic processes. However, considering where the policies of the last 50 years have eventually led us, perhaps there are lessons to be learned from our more distant GOLD STANDARD past.
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Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
06-07-2006 10:04
We need to put it on the Oil standard. The rising gas prices would offset the declining $L value :)
Jamie Bergman
SL's Largest Distributor
Join date: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,752
06-07-2006 10:21
From: Rasah Tigereye
We need to put it on the Oil standard. The rising gas prices would offset the declining $L value :)


Totally for this.

Then I could fill up my SUV with my excess L$.
Cannae Brentano
NeoTermite
Join date: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 368
06-07-2006 10:45
Personally, I'd prefer to have $L backed up by kryptonite.
Seraph Nephilim
and the angels will weep
Join date: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 255
06-07-2006 11:16
From: Cannae Brentano
Personally, I'd prefer to have $L backed up by kryptonite.
Wow, a proposal I'm 100% for. As a nice side benefit, it will keep Kal-El and all those other pesky Kryptonians from messing with our grid!
Kieran Rambler
Registered User
Join date: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 6
06-07-2006 11:21
This article makes the gold standard look like it has holes. I'll quote:

From: ReserveBank Division

A Risk of Exchange Loss

The exchange risk of the Treasury gold notes, of course, is the same as that associated with our foreign currency Treasury note series. The U.S. Treasury has, over the years, sold significant quantities of both German mark - and Swiss franc denominated issues, and both made and lost money in terms of dollars as exchange rates have fluctuated. And indeed there is a risk of exchange rate loss with gold notes.

...

However, unless the price of gold doubles over a five-year period (16% compounded annually), interest payments on the gold notes in terms of dollars will be less than conventional financing requires. The run-up to $875 per ounce in early 1980 was surely an aberration, reflecting certain circumstances in the Middle East which are unlikely to be repeated in the near future. Hence, anything close to doubling of gold prices in the next five years appears improbable. On the other hand, if gold prices remain stable or rise moderately, the savings could be large: Each $10 billion in equivalent gold notes outstanding would, under stable gold prices, save $1.5 billion per year in interest outlays.

....

Those who advocate a return to a GOLD STANDARD should be aware that returning our monetary system to gold convertibility is no mere technical, financial restructuring.


Your article says exactly what I am. Gold is not inflation proof. You can argue that it is more stable than the U.S. dollar which is sometimes true, but gold changes value just like everything else. You also have to remember that gold is not the most liquid commodity anymore. The U.S. dollar is by far more liquid than anything out there. I assume being a financially educated person; you know about the Bank for International Settlements. Their latest report has the U.S. dollar making up 44.35% of all currency trades in the world last year. That percentage is not only higher than any other currency, it represents around 1.5 TRILLION U.S. dollars changing hands per DAY. The dollar has value all over the world. The liquid world wide value that used to make gold the best choice for things to be measured against now lies in favor of the U.S. dollar. I do think many of the presidents from the 70's on, both democrat and republican, have sent the U.S. dollar into a devaluing over the years, but the U.S. dollar even at lesser value is far from needing gold to give it stability and value.

You also have president Reagan who actually thinks he can lower taxes, increase government spending, and lower the national debt all at the same time as the gold standard representative in the article. I'm not even talking about whether those listed things are good; I'm just saying that any 10 year old can figure out that you can't get less money, spend more money, and expect to have more money left over in the end. It is kind of telling that we're a decade past this president without a gold standard. The argument apparently didn't win congress over.
Pratyeka Muromachi
Meditating Avatar
Join date: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 642
06-07-2006 11:47
Reagan also believed Star Wars was for real...
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gone to Openlife Grid and OpenSim standalone, your very own sim on your PC, 45,000 prims, huge prims at will up to 100m, yes, run your own grid on your PC, FOR FREE!
ReserveBank Division
Senior Member
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,408
06-07-2006 12:07
We need to replace the Linden Dollar (L$) with eGold http://www.e-gold.com
Internet Currency backed 100% buy gold. Ain't No Inflation There...
And if you want, you can take physical delivery of your Gold.

Send me some eGold....
http://2327104.e-gold.com/
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Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
06-07-2006 12:21
From: ReserveBank Division
We need to replace the Linden Dollar (L$) with eGold http://www.e-gold.com
Internet Currency backed 100% buy gold. Ain't No Inflation There...
And if you want, you can take physical delivery of your Gold.

Send me some eGold....
http://2327104.e-gold.com/



Start trading your $L for e-Gold then. You'll still have to sell it for $USD to buy the gold though, since I'm sure e-gold doesn't accept $L as payment (or any gold seller for that matter)
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http://www.xnicole.com
ReserveBank Division
Senior Member
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,408
06-07-2006 12:31
From: Rasah Tigereye
Start trading your $L for e-Gold then. You'll still have to sell it for $USD to buy the gold though, since I'm sure e-gold doesn't accept $L as payment (or any gold seller for that matter)



Until somebody sets up a eGold/L$ exchange (aka: Middle Man).

As long as some creates a point of conversion, you can effectively
buy anything you like with Linden Dollars. Although buying offworld
products with a growing L$ money supply will cause heavy downward
pressure on the linden dollar.

A trading platform for eGold/Linden Dollars would do is accept XX amount
of Linden Dollars for eGold. They would then sell the Linden Dollars for USDs,
buy the eGold, and credit your account accordingly. If you sold the eGold, they
would take the USDs from the eGold sale, buy Linden Dollars, and credit
your account.

Now there is lots of delays with the above method, but somebody willing to
float the transaction so the traders get to buy/sell on the fly, means a seamless
conversion between eGold and L$.
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Ranma Tardis
沖縄弛緩の明確で青い水
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 1,415
06-07-2006 12:44
I am in favor of doing away with the Linden and having everone pay in American Dollars! Then Jamie can write threads about making the American Goverment balance its budget!
Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
06-07-2006 12:46
From: ReserveBank Division

A trading platform for eGold/Linden Dollars would do is accept XX amount
of Linden Dollars for eGold. They would then sell the Linden Dollars for USDs,
buy the eGold, and credit your account accordingly. If you sold the eGold, they
would take the USDs from the eGold sale, buy Linden Dollars, and credit
your account.


Uh.. would it not be easier to sell $L for USD, hold on to the USD, and when you sell USD, get it traded back for $L, bypassing the USD to gold, gold to USD transaction entirely? It seems as if this extra layer is only there in case the USD starts juming around.
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http://www.xnicole.com
ReserveBank Division
Senior Member
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,408
06-07-2006 13:58
From: Rasah Tigereye
Uh.. would it not be easier to sell $L for USD, hold on to the USD, and when you sell USD, get it traded back for $L, bypassing the USD to gold, gold to USD transaction entirely? It seems as if this extra layer is only there in case the USD starts juming around.



eGold would be an investment for your L$. A Virtual investment
with your virtual dollars. And its inflation proof against the L$ and US$.
Why trade a Fiat Currency for another Fiat Currency when you can
beat them all by holding Gold? Then just buy the fiat currency you
need, when you need it. Your value is always maintained.
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Joannah Cramer
Registered User
Join date: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,539
06-07-2006 14:10
From: ReserveBank Division
We need to replace the Linden Dollar (L$) with eGold http://www.e-gold.com
Internet Currency backed 100% buy gold. Ain't No Inflation There...


http://www.e-gold.com/unsecure/qanda.html

"Financial risk vs. exchange risk
e-gold is entirely backed by a physical commodity rather than debt or other financial instruments; therefore, e-gold is the only currency in the world free of financial risk. However, absence of financial risk does not mean absence of exchange rate risk. As with any currency, the value of e-gold relative to other currencies continually fluctuates."

since gold is free market commodity, as it's been continually losing value vs world currencies in the last years, so does your e-gold.

For 100% inflation and risk free internet currency, i'll be starting project e-bridge later this month. Its value will be tied to famous RL bridges all over the world, that i happen to exclusively own.
ReserveBank Division
Senior Member
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,408
06-07-2006 14:17
From: Joannah Cramer
http://www.e-gold.com/unsecure/qanda.html

"Financial risk vs. exchange risk
e-gold is entirely backed by a physical commodity rather than debt or other financial instruments; therefore, e-gold is the only currency in the world free of financial risk. However, absence of financial risk does not mean absence of exchange rate risk. As with any currency, the value of e-gold relative to other currencies continually fluctuates."

since gold is free market commodity, as it's been continually losing value vs world currencies in the last years, so does your e-gold.

For 100% inflation and risk free internet currency, i'll be starting project e-bridge later this month. Its value will be tied to famous RL bridges all over the world, that i happen to exclusively own.





Did you say something about losing value vs world currencies?
I could be wrong, but isn't this chart going up, up, up, up relative to
the US Dollar? Since 2000 which direction has the value of Gold gone?

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Svar Beckersted
Registered User
Join date: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 783
06-07-2006 14:30
From: ReserveBank Division
Did you say something about losing value vs world currencies?
I could be wrong, but isn't this chart going up, up, up, up relative to
the US Dollar? Since 2000 which direction has the value of Gold gone?



Did you buy gold when it hit $850 thinking it was going to $2000 or did you wait for it to go below $200 before you bought?
Joannah Cramer
Registered User
Join date: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,539
06-07-2006 14:33
From: ReserveBank Division
Since 2000 which direction has the value of Gold gone?

Down. to the point where in 2002 the 'american gold exchange expert' claims it has no way to go _but_ up, because it's at 20-year low. (http://www.amergold.com/library/gold1700.shtml)

And indeed it did went a bit up since then, but it's still far cry from 20 years ago.

here's a bigger chart for you to chew on:

http://inflationdata.com/inflation/images/charts/Gold/Gold_inflation_chart.htm
along with associated article:
http://inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation_Rate/Gold_Inflation.asp
ReserveBank Division
Senior Member
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,408
06-07-2006 14:56
Hey. All I know is that I can now afford a Mint Julip.
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