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Is GOM's decision also partly a revenge?

Alexander Yeats
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Join date: 8 Sep 2005
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09-29-2005 18:15
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Greene Hornet
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Join date: 9 May 2005
Posts: 103
Who cares?
09-30-2005 00:05
It's their exchange, their decision, and nobody's business whatever the motive. Its not personal, its business.

They have been patient and stand-up throughout - why second-guess now? They don't owe LL or us a thing at this point.

I hate to see them go but it was probably inevitable the way it all worked out. I wish it had been otherwise as I see their approach to be superior - as a market maker and not a facilitator the way LL wants to move forward.

The plain fact of the matter is that LL needed to be an active buyer and seller on the exchange to provide order but did not. Until tier and land auctions are priced in Lindens we'll never have the kind of linkage that makes the SL economy viable.

Until then its all speculation - for buyers and sellers of L$'s...
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Greene Hornet
Strife Onizuka
Moonchild
Join date: 3 Mar 2004
Posts: 5,887
09-30-2005 00:08
From: Snowcrash Hoffman

If the picture was prepared in good humor then why did you delete it after you posted it? If you had not made personal attacks, I perhaps would have taken this in good humor, but in the context of your attacks to discredit me, this cartoon basically reinforces the aim to discredit my opinion and I consider this a personal attack.


It's possible she was out of attachment storage space and deleted it to make room for other attachments for other theads.
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Shadow Garden
Just horsin' around
Join date: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 226
09-30-2005 14:16
From: Alexander Yeats
This is an arguement pro-GOM that keeps popping up and I thought I would inquire as to where you can read their actual business financials that gives this statement creedance?

I mean other then what the owners have said?

I am sorry, but I like to base things on facts mostly, but this is hyberbole until such a time as I see the actual quarterly returns.

And to run some numbers, even with a 4GB bandwidth and a co-located server at the volumes they were trading over there I find it extremely hard to believe, even if they only took in 0.02 cents per block for every single trade, they made next to nothing. I host, and co-locate, and run bandwidth into the gigs and we don't come close to the payment they would have had over there, unless by gross incompetence or fraud/theft/ripoff prices of the host.

I could get a fully dedicated server and 4 gigs of bandwith at a permium, for example, at 900 month. Giving a 200-300 return just based on 2000 in volume a day for 30 days at 0.02 per block.

So unless those numbers are someplace.....



You are only taking the numbers into account that you know of. What about office space, insurance, payroll, accounting, legal services, filing, rental of equipment, purchasing software licenses, etc? Lots of expenses go into deciding whether a business is profitable or not. They've already made the statement that they had to purchase extra L$ because of an XML issue, so there is another expense.

I'm just pointing out that if you are running a business and you perceive that you are losing money with no options available, you would either sell it or close it out quickly. If it won't sell for a reasonable price, and reasonable is in the eye of the seller, then you shut it down and walk away.
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Alexander Yeats
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Join date: 8 Sep 2005
Posts: 188
09-30-2005 14:23
From: Shadow Garden
You are only taking the numbers into account that you know of. What about office space, insurance, payroll, accounting, legal services, filing, rental of equipment, purchasing software licenses, etc? Lots of expenses go into deciding whether a business is profitable or not. They've already made the statement that they had to purchase extra L$ because of an XML issue, so there is another expense.

I'm just pointing out that if you are running a business and you perceive that you are losing money with no options available, you would either sell it or close it out quickly. If it won't sell for a reasonable price, and reasonable is in the eye of the seller, then you shut it down and walk away.


While extra business expense is a fact, they have made numerous statements that this was not yet a full time operation.

Given those statements, here and on GOM forums, if they had actually purchased things like office space and insurance for said space, that would have been a premature move on their part.

Also, hiring a payroll service and an accountant for 2 people would be overkill.

Equipment rental would fall mostly on their hosting service, cause I really do not see a need to get a fax or copier ?

Long story short, I think they jumped in before having a business plan AT ALL (while it was great someone jumped on the fact no exchange existed) largely at the bequest of LL, but they did so with no forethought to any potential risk vs ROI.

Running a business model on hope (that LL would one day offer them a great deal) is pretty shortsighted.... or am I wrong?
Shadow Garden
Just horsin' around
Join date: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 226
09-30-2005 14:31
From: Alexander Yeats
While extra business expense is a fact, they have made numerous statements that this was not yet a full time operation.

Given those statements, here and on GOM forums, if they had actually purchased things like office space and insurance for said space, that would have been a premature move on their part.

Also, hiring a payroll service and an accountant for 2 people would be overkill.

Equipment rental would fall mostly on their hosting service, cause I really do not see a need to get a fax or copier ?

Long story short, I think they jumped in before having a business plan AT ALL (while it was great someone jumped on the fact no exchange existed) largely at the bequest of LL, but they did so with no forethought to any potential risk vs ROI.

Running a business model on hope (that LL would one day offer them a great deal) is pretty shortsighted.... or am I wrong?


Part time operations still incur expenses. You still have to pay those running it or what is the point? I wasn't thinking payroll service, but you do have to pay taxes on the business side as well as the personal side. Also, you might legally need an accountant, since they are Dun and Bradstreet listed. Remember that they were working on being an exchange for more than just L$, so they had more working goals then just being bought out by LL eventually as well.
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Alexander Yeats
Registered User
Join date: 8 Sep 2005
Posts: 188
09-30-2005 14:33
From: Shadow Garden
Remember that they were working on being an exchange for more than just L$, so they had more working goals then just being bought out by LL eventually as well.


Granted. So then, what exactly happend to those plans?

IIRC, they stoped trading other currencies a while ago, and were only focused on $L ? no?

So that would in fact imply steps backwards on their part, not forwards into a full exchange market.

I think the writting was on the wall from the moment they stopped dealing in other game currencies honestly.
Dnate Mars
Lost
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 1,309
09-30-2005 14:38
From: Alexander Yeats
While extra business expense is a fact, they have made numerous statements that this was not yet a full time operation.

Given those statements, here and on GOM forums, if they had actually purchased things like office space and insurance for said space, that would have been a premature move on their part.

Also, hiring a payroll service and an accountant for 2 people would be overkill.

Equipment rental would fall mostly on their hosting service, cause I really do not see a need to get a fax or copier ?

Long story short, I think they jumped in before having a business plan AT ALL (while it was great someone jumped on the fact no exchange existed) largely at the bequest of LL, but they did so with no forethought to any potential risk vs ROI.

Running a business model on hope (that LL would one day offer them a great deal) is pretty shortsighted.... or am I wrong?

You sure seem to know a lot about GOM. Do you know what they are planning in the future? Maybe they haven't just given up? They siad they are working on other plans, do you know what these are?

I am not saying the GOM did no wrong, I think they did just give up way too easily, but I don't know everything either. They may have a better plan that is more then just SL. Maybe they are going to lease out the software to a 3rd party to run the exchange. Maybe they just were sick and tired of dealing with SL and LL, and desided that it just was not enough money to keep it running. Maybe the lease on the server runs out on the 2nd that is why they pick that date. No one knows why GOM did what they did, they just are. I loved GOM and will miss the service, but I am not going to question the persons that ran it and say they are bad businessmen, just becasue they closed up shop.
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From: Cristiano Midnight
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Dnate Mars
Lost
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 1,309
09-30-2005 14:43
From: Alexander Yeats
Granted. So then, what exactly happend to those plans?

IIRC, they stoped trading other currencies a while ago, and were only focused on $L ? no?

So that would in fact imply steps backwards on their part, not forwards into a full exchange market.

I think the writting was on the wall from the moment they stopped dealing in other game currencies honestly.


Where you around when they stopped? Do you know why they stopped? They stopped dealing in other games when they were victims of fraud, something on the order of $3000USD. The other games told them, basicly to shove off, they would not help. Since teh volumes in the other games were not that great, it made better business sense to stop trading in other games.
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From: Cristiano Midnight
This forum is weird.
Alexander Yeats
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Join date: 8 Sep 2005
Posts: 188
09-30-2005 14:44
From: Dnate Mars
I loved GOM and will miss the service, but I am not going to question the persons that ran it and say they are bad businessmen, just becasue they closed up shop.


As did I.

But I am not saying they were bad businessmen because they closed shop.

They ran a piss poor business model, and that is evident, and in the end made them obviously feel uneasy about their current position enough to make them close shop.

I am sure they do have something cooking in the future, no reason not to.
Alexander Yeats
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Join date: 8 Sep 2005
Posts: 188
09-30-2005 14:45
From: Dnate Mars
Where you around when they stopped? Do you know why they stopped? They stopped dealing in other games when they were victims of fraud, something on the order of $3000USD. The other games told them, basicly to shove off, they would not help. Since teh volumes in the other games were not that great, it made better business sense to stop trading in other games.


Um, yeah I was, and yeah that just proves my point.

Jumping into somehting like this without a plan for security/fraud protection and the lack of checks for IP rights against the very games they marketed currency under, does not speak to research, but jumping the gun.
Dnate Mars
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09-30-2005 14:53
From: Alexander Yeats
Um, yeah I was, and yeah that just proves my point.

Jumping into somehting like this without a plan for security/fraud protection and the lack of checks for IP rights against the very games they marketed currency under, does not speak to research, but jumping the gun.


So, you have never made a mistake running a business? They tried something that had not been done before, and in the other markets it failed. IGE trades in many other games, and I am sure they have fraud against them too. They just deal in bigger volumes and have higher margins of profit. I would have question them more had they not stopped trading in the other games when so much fraud was coming from the other games. If you ever run a business, you will know you can have the best business plans in place, but sometimes the real business just doesn't pan out they way you hoped.
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From: Cristiano Midnight
This forum is weird.
Alexander Yeats
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Join date: 8 Sep 2005
Posts: 188
09-30-2005 14:58
From: Dnate Mars
So, you have never made a mistake running a business?


MANY Lol. and if I hadn't learned from those I wouldn't still be in business.


From: Dnate Mars
If you ever run a business, you will know you can have the best business plans in place, but sometimes the real business just doesn't pan out they way you hoped.


Which is why i am sure they will try and do something down the road. Hopefully learning from this go around that business plans/models are MEANT to be broken and to adapt or die again.

Their current rationale was to just shut it down altogether without even attempting to compete in what is shaping up to be a more competive marketplace.


Not saying it was a bad decision, as no one here has any numbers except the hyperbole figures they throw out there, but to just throw your hands up is not nessicarily the approach I would have taken given the large number of users I had out there giving me support.
Winston Melville
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Join date: 17 Sep 2005
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09-30-2005 15:00
From: Alexander Yeats

Which is why i am sure they will try and do something down the road. Hopefully learning from this go around that business plans/models are MEANT to be broken and to adapt or die again.

Their current rationale was to just shut it down altogether without even attempting to compete in what is shaping up to be a more competive marketplace.


How is a marketplace in which one particular competitor can PRINT UNLIMITED MONEY ON DEMAND FOR FREE in anyway a competitive one?
Alexander Yeats
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Join date: 8 Sep 2005
Posts: 188
09-30-2005 15:03
From: Winston Melville
How is a marketplace in which one particular competitor can PRINT UNLIMITED MONEY ON DEMAND FOR FREE in anyway a competitive one?


You mean like the US dollar? I fail to see what you are asking? Besides, I dont think LL would print unlimited funds on demand considering their intent to do an in house exchange, that would defeat the purpose, devalue their own currency and drive the business in SL away, taking a large portion of the population.....

so again, shoot yer self in the foot cause you like it ?
Dnate Mars
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09-30-2005 15:07
From: Alexander Yeats

Not saying it was a bad decision, as no one here has any numbers except the hyperbole figures they throw out there, but to just throw your hands up is not nessicarily the approach I would have taken given the large number of users I had out there giving me support.


I agree with you there, I wish they would have stuck around, I think they could have been the better service, at least for a while. We also don't know what LL has not put in place, and what the plans are. I think Tom and Jamie know much more then they are saying too.
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From: Cristiano Midnight
This forum is weird.
Alexander Yeats
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Join date: 8 Sep 2005
Posts: 188
09-30-2005 15:10
From: Dnate Mars
I think Tom and Jamie know much more then they are saying too.


Most definately.

Not knowing what was spoken at the deal meeting sucks for us, but one would imagine it wasn't just to make a deal, but also swap ideas on what things to implement down the road. As we can see LL had told them they would have server access and whatnot, so it would be the next logical step to discuss things they want to see in the exchange (had it happend).

I would postulate they are planning for what LL is planning to offer (knowing already) any may just incorporate all the things ppl have asked for here and on GOM forums (limits, future/options, margins, etc..) and just didn't want to deal with the inbetween time, but would rather one-two punch it once its solid and complete.

At least, that is what I would do with the downtime :)
Marker Dinova
I eat yellow paperclips.
Join date: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 608
10-02-2005 00:39
Having handled a business, I admire the GOM team for what they have done and I really feel pitty for the narrow minded people who are saying they should have stayed open. You know, it's really easy to tell someone how to raise a child when it's not your own...
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The difference between you and me = me - you.
The difference between me and you = you - me.

add them up and we have

2The 2difference 2between 2me 2and 2you = 0

2(The difference between me and you) = 0

The difference between me and you = 0/2

The difference between me and you = 0

I never thought we were so similar :eek:
Malachi Petunia
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Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
10-02-2005 02:51
Was WWII an act of vengence (nope not a Godwin invocation)? Was SCO v. AutoZone vengeful? How about Intel v. DEC? Who is John Galt? What was behind curtain #3?

Oh, and what Marker Dinova said.
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