Classifeds being closed?

Check out sluniverse.com Cristiano has already done this. I also have a website for Roadhouse Rawk Radio and am considering installing a forum for classifieds as well. I'm still tossing ideas around in my head on how to do it, with the bonus being paid radio advertisement and event dj's available.

I'm just getting started as a merchant. I have one freebie vending kiosk located outside the Forest Store, in The Forest. Not exactly a high-traffic location, but it's where I live, and where I can get free space to sell from, on group-owned land. My inventory right now consists of 6 t-shirt designs that go for L$20 each, and one dress that goes for L$75.

Between 10/1 and 10/18, I've sold 8 shirts and one dress. That's a total income of L$235 in just over two weeks. So an ad that costs me L$250 costs more than my curent total sales. Yes, the ad *should* bring in more sales. But that is a big question mark.

I know I need to increase the number of things I have for sale. I have a bunch of new clothing items that I want to make, and I'll be branching out into eye textures and furniture soon. The quality of what I am learning to produce is improving rapidly, so I can probably increase my prices somewhat, at least on the newer items that are made better. But at this point, I can't even afford the small fee that it would require for me to move indoors to a more visible location in the mall that my store is in.

LL isn't bailing out of a particular facet so that we can take it over ourselves. They're getting rid of the free version and implementing a version we have to pay for, still run by them. Certainly you aren't so much a LL cheerleader you don't see the difference?

SLUniverse already has product forums if people are looking for a new web version. I haven't been able to use them because they didn't support GIMP shots when I tried.

As for the in-world classifieds.. Bleh. I put out several new items almost every day. No way in hell am I going to fork out that much money on advertising most people won't even check.

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It won't solve the L$250 fee, but its better than nothing I s'pose..

It's not really better than nothing for me. I put out several new products almost every day. I'm not paying $250 to advertise each one when the products themselves only cost between $50 and $200. Unless there are some major changes between now and the 1.7 release, I simply won't be using LL's system. This is one moneysink they can stuff.

Jon, I just put up an ad there today with a GIMP Image. Of course that was linking with img tag as I host my images. Are you saying the upload doesn't work with GIMP images ? Here's what I do, take my shots saved as bmp. Go to GIMP compose and save as jpg. I haven't had any problems. If you can't host your images and use img tag why not do this. Snapzilla the shots then link to the snapzilla img ? Is that possible ?

Last time I tried SLUniverse would not accept .jpg, .tga, .bmp, or .gif shots uploaded. It said it didn't recognize the formats. As for sending as snapzilla shots, that's only possible with pictures taken inworld, which makes for dog-butt ugly ads. If I had space to host my own images and use img tags, I wouldn't need to put them on another web page, I'd just link to that page in my sig.

Thanks for the suggestions though.

Edited-- Just tried SLuniverse forums again, and it let me upload. Yay! One of Cris's updates must have taken care of whatever the problem was.

Will log into preview once I've downloaded the new version to test my theory, but I believe you can change the description once you've entered it. So you could put the name as "New Designs from Jonquille Noir!" and add new products to the description as they come out. So that would make it L$250 per location..

Yeah you can, and name, only thing you can't change is location I think..

I know it doesn't solve most of the problems... But hey, bright side and all that

Yay!!

Thanks for checking Zapoteth. I guess I should go into preview and check it out. I haven't seen mentioned how people will be viewing the classieds. Will it be as full as Find?

It seems to be, it has a search function, and mature tickbox, and catagories.. And you can enter and edit it remotely, using your profile. Meaning you don't have to go to location like you do with find.

I just went over and checked it out. I think I will give it a pass. I already pay $30 to show up 12+ pages down the Find menu, I don't think I'll be paying $250 every 2 weeks to do the same in the Classifieds.

I see the difference. Perhaps its because I'm not so much a cheerleader as I am someone who prefers to look at the glass as half full as oppose to half empty.

I prefer to see us debate the cost of the fees of the in-world classifieds, and perhaps how it will operate as opposed to wasting our time fighting an uphill battle and trying to save the forum classifieds. The forum classifieds, although loved by a certain few, are really rarely used when compared to the overall SL community.

To illustrate my point, go to the classified forums and note how many views are in each thread. Many are under 100 views and most are under 200 views (BTW, does the counter increase irregardless of how many times any one individual visits the thread?).

When one considers that the SL population is currently over 65,000, can anybody dispute that these classified forums are rarely used and not representative of the SL community. If one agrees that they are not, then the question is...are they cost effective for LL to maintain financially and labor cost wise (monitoring, moderating. etc).

I'm not saying that each individual doesn't have the right to voice their opinion either way. Im just offering an alternative because we might still have a chance to change LL's decision about the fees and how it will be run, so I think they would be more receptive, and we might be more succesful, if we banded together and concentrated our efforts in this endeavor.

I don't have to go to the forums and study the amount of views. I post new items in the classified almost every day, and I know what it does for my business. I get increases in sales every time I post to them.

If LL sees how unpopular their decision to close the Classified Forums is, they might change their minds. They have done it before. Unlike most companies of their type, they do tend to listen to their user base every once in a while.

Why is it you think they'd listen to us about their fees, but not about a forum?

I appreciate your enthusiasm due to your personal experience with the matter, and if it's a cause that you feel is worth the effort, by all means please continue. However, I do not think that LL will be swayed in their decision based on the experience of a select few, who may have built a great following and reputation in one particular forum.

Looking at it from their perspective, I would think the numbers speak for themselves.

I do understand, and sympathise with those who will be negatively affected by this decision though.

You still haven't explained why you believe a select few on the forums trying to influence their fees is any different than trying to influence their decision to keep the forums open.

IMHO, the decision has been made. What is left now is its implementation. Due to the circumstances, I believe that LL would be ameniable to compromise, and a reasonable area of compromise does appear to be the fees. They do appear, by everyones estimates, to be unreasonably high.

The operation of the classifieds also appears to be an area left to compromise. I'm certain that it will be tweaked quite a bit after it's implementation. So input in this regard does appear to be an area of compromise as well.

I dont think Jonquilles experience is one of a "select" few I normally have not posted on forums just gone by word of mouth and though I did reasonably well posting on forums helped alot because people who did not know me were able find me. It also allowed me to show a variety of pictures so they could see the range and quality of the work which these classifieds will not.

The costs are really extreme, considering 1 product I just did had 4 shots to show what was available so according to this I would have to spam the classifieds 4 times and pay a $1000 L so people could see. I dont think so.

Designers who are puting clothing out on a regular basis work really hard as it is. I know that it is not unknown for me to spend 8 to 10 hours days in a row to get a product out. That leaves very litle time to socialise and go explore. I do not put out as many items as some others so I imagine their hours are the same or similiar.

To me this advantages those designers who are well established and is a disincentive for new ones starting out.

I base my "select few" interpretation on the amount of views that each thread has garnered in the classified forums. Again, many have under 100 views, most have under 200 views. This against a population of 65,000+. These factual numbers are what I presume the numbers crushers in the "windowless LL cubby holes" are looking at, at LL headquarters. Although the intrinsic value of these "views" can certainly be argued, it would be pretty difficult to argue the numbers themselves.

Having said that, I agree with the fees being excessive and I join you in our endeavor to have them reduced

BTW, I really don't think you will have to pay $L250 for each shot. $L1000 for one ad is outrageous by any stretch of the imagination. What I am understanding is that designers will pay a flat $L250 fee to list their store without a limitation to the amount of items listed. I admit that this is pure speculation on my part though.

I really don't like the idea of the classifieds forum going down. And I don't think the $250L fee is fair to the little guys. What this is saying to me is "The rich get richer, the poor get left behind". On the other hand, it wouldn't cost much for someone to use LindeX to get an extra $1000L for pocket change.

But I Guess we'll see.

You can check out the Classifieds on the 1.7 preview. There is a place for an item name, a description, a price, and 1 picture. You can change those at will during the 2 week run, but there is no way to check any archived ads that I could find. So, if I put out a few items a day, or even a few during the 2 week run, I can advertise one of those items at a time. (Or I can try and cram a bunch of pics into 1, so no detail can be seen on any of them.)

The Classifieds are also set up very similar to the Find menu. In the Find menu, my store has never once come up on the first 10 pages that I've seen, and many people have told me they couldn't find it at all without searching for the full store name. I've debated whether that's worth even the piddly $30 a week I pay for it. Will paying $250 every two weeks guarentee me a spot higher on the list in the Classifieds? Not from what I've seen.

Unless there are several changes to the way the Classifieds will be implemented between now and the release of 1.7, they simply won't be worth the money to me.

It's not at all a win win situation as you claimed. It's a lose lose for a lot of people. Those meager views on the classified forums are coming from people who are actively looking for new items, which makes them 100 times more valuable than the numbers indicate. I would assume a company like LL would recognize the value of marketing to real potential customers as more than a set of numbers.

It doesn't sound very tasty at all if this is the final version

I remain optimistic that it will eventually evolve into something greater though.

Those hundred or two hundred views a posting gets in the Classified forums is actually TERRIFIC. That many people have looked at the title and found it of interest enough to go in and read the post.

That doesn't count all those who read just the TITLE.

Then, let's say, you post three additional pictures of your product. You can see by that how many views each of those pictures got. Invariably, they are diminishing: Say 42 for the first picture, 29 for the second, and 18 for the third.

This is actually TERRIFIC. SLExchange also shows how many views your products get, and which products. That is another basis for comparison.

Just that info alone tells you which of your items are better received than others, and/or which items appeal to the most people, or serve the best need.

Consider classifieds in the game. Are they fun and interesting? Nope. But the classified forums here are.

And how many people look at the classifieds in the game? We don't really know, and we can NEVER really know.

And what about all the other things you find in find? Let's say I'm looking for a particular item. Like vase, or textures, or poses, or washing machine. If it is textures or poses, I will get two pages of places. I then click on the places which have a title that for some reason seems more hopeful than others. I then look at the picture and the few keywords they are allowed. Then I take a chance and actually go to all the trouble of flying there, finding my way physically around, and hopefully getting the answers I want. (In this case, are the textures or poses transferrable, for instance.)

If it's washing machine, I will put in every conceivable word version of the same thing - knowing full well that "washing machine" isn't likely to be listed in the few keywords allowed, probably starting with "appliances." Then it's the same thing - fly around and hope.

In the Classified forums, if there is something you are interested in, you can read much more about the item, and see pictures of it, too. AND get a flavor for the seller.

Also, it can't be stressed how much of an impetus for creativity the Classified community provides.

Like someone else earlier pointed out, it is my main happy place on the forums - a place where we all come together to be happy in what SL is really supposed to be about in the ways it is supposed to be that way.

Well, I'm having a hard time articulating it. I'm trying to say that the forum can't be duplicated in either practical terms, or creative terms, by the classifieds in game. One is human and close and easily accessible, the other isn't.

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced this is a prelude to the LL's SL version of SLExchange, etc., just as Lindex was the SL version of GOM, etc.

And - belt me with tomatoes, but I just can't get convinced that they are doing this all from the goodness of their hearts, and there is going to be NO actual profit for LL in either this or Lindex to make the bean-counters happy. I think the bean-counters run way more than we realize, and there will be money in this somehow for LL. I think there has to be a direct profit margin in it for LL.

coco

I think it will be a sad day for everyone when they close the forums It might be that only 2 to 3 hundred view the posts but when you consider alot of those go and buy that means potentaly pretty good sales. I just dont get why IMO that when there is something good going on its always eliminated and replaced with something that is so wrong for the majority?

That brings up another point. On the classified forum, people that did buy the product can reply and post their opinion of it - or even a review of the product. I personally think this is very valuable for the seller and consumer. This gives people a real world 'word of mouth' view of the item for sale. Classifieds can't do that.

If anything, I think this might boost sites like SLExchange. We're still going to want forum announcements, we're just going to have to go elsewhere to do it. (Or post it in another forum and hope enough people see it before the Lindens remove it).