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Our focus should now be on SINKS not STIPENDS.

Cortex Draper
Registered User
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 406
05-31-2006 05:47
MY SINK IDEA:

1. Create and sell new land for 5L$ per square meter

2. Or better still sell it for 10L$ per square meter, and automatically reduce the price by 1 L$ per square meter each week its unsold down to a minimum of 1L$ per square meter.
That will most certainly cause it to be eventually sold, thus ensuring linden labs gains teir.

The advantage of starting at a high price is it means they get as many lindens as possible for it, and it wont cause land barons to be redundant as their land will still be less.
Bloop Cork
This space for sale.
Join date: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 277
05-31-2006 05:58
From: CJ Carnot
Now you're talking Bloop, offering ADDITIONAL functionality for Lindens might be a positive move, however...

You have to bear in mind that if LL could in anyway charge more US$ for that extra service they would, both because they need real world profitability and some things, such as faster servers themselves cost US$

It's the same paradox we keep banging our head against. We want the L$ to be a real currency and while I can't dispute it has value, the fact that it's issuing "government" can never accept it as payment somewhat screws it.

You are correct, CJ. My ideas will only work as sinks, as will everyone else's, if and only if they can be paid via Lindens.

If LL requires US$, then it obviates the sink effect. The dual currency phenomenon (between real and virtual worlds) creates a economic disparity that is difficult to address.
Ananda Sandgrain
+0-
Join date: 16 May 2003
Posts: 1,951
05-31-2006 06:00
I agree that focusing on sinks would be the right way to go. Mine would be similar to the above, except that I don't think LL will ever return to the days of directly selling land on a small scale.

What I'd suggest is that LL start offering sims at auction for $L 350,000 or so. This would give them a controllable sink, as they could adjust the price or number available over time. It would indicate LL's willingness to stabilize the money supply at or above a certain demand level. It would also signal to the community that there is another way to profit than dumping $L on the market.
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Bloop Cork
This space for sale.
Join date: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 277
05-31-2006 06:06
From: Nowun Till
I also run a RL business and I would be happy to be paid in L$ for some of our products, so that I can enjoy the SL game more. RL products paid for in L$. Similarly I would be happy to be paid £ for SL items. It is through the creation of ideas such as that, that the value of the L$ will stabilise. Too many of these threads talk about the L$ in isolation to RL economy and when it does go to RL it then ignores completely people like me who have £ not US$ to spend. I need to go through 2 exchanges to buy Lindens. This is another avenue to explore. Offering £ and EURO exchange rates, or else players such as me have to think about holding lindens or dollars or our own currency.

...

Follow this up with businesses such as mine being incentivised to accept LS$ for RL services. The incentive being structured SL banking and a way to make this happen outside of SL, as I need to account to the RL revenue for the L$ income. Then there is the possibility for people to take money out of SL into RL and get something for it as well as avoiding yet another L$ withdrawl.


Nowrun , welcome to SL and the forum! I appreciate the ideas in your post, especially the ones I have quoted above. You present some valuable ideas to think about.
Bloop Cork
This space for sale.
Join date: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 277
05-31-2006 06:23
From: Maklin Deckard
All the short-term fixes (such as the recent stipend cut for new basics) is attacking the wrong end of things. They NEED to concentrate on fixes that impact the well-off first, and not so deeply that they leave but deep enough to matter....rather than pruning the roots while the branches get bigger and bigger. Eventually the tree will collapse when most of the roots (newbs, low end premiums, small businesses) fold and only the big content creators and land barons remain...without a


Maklin, your tree and root metaphor is great!

As an avid gardner in RL, I have learned the dire consequences of root pruning a plant too vigorously. In fact, any type of pruning (root or shoot) can be overdone.

Fortunately, it's usually the case that younger plants are more resilient to over pruning. Does this work for younger economies? I guess only time can tell.
Bloop Cork
This space for sale.
Join date: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 277
05-31-2006 06:31
From: Cheyenne Marquez
Your ideas for sink suggestions to LL in this thread would be most appreciated. Thank you.

Cheyenne:

Where did you go? There are a number of suggestions posted in your thread that you have not responded to. I, for one, would like to here your thoughts on these ideas! :)

Here are mine, for a start:

/130/cb/110429/2.html#post1064620
Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
05-31-2006 06:58
From: Star Sleestak
First, being 10k usd in the hole after less than 3 years of running a RL business would be pretty damn good. Most businesses in RL are in the red for their first 5 years. If you were running a RL business, you would be deeper in the red or out of business.

Second, you had the chance to read the TOS when you signed on and every time you invensted. You knew you were pegging your business on the what people were willing to buy L$ at.

Third, most of you knew about stipends, dwell, et when you invested. These did not come as a surprise to many of you.

LL didn't promise that you would make money.



Don't tell me this, tell that to Lusk owners. And LindenLabs for expecting people to pay so much to buy their land.
The problem is NOT "zOMG, all this money was invested, and we can't get it back" for these people/content providers/land owners. The problem is that, right now, they CAN make the money back (probably knowing full well that they could before spending that money), BUT they see the decline of $L as a serious threat to that money being made back. Essentially this isn't a "Ack! I lost money! Give me yours!," it's "Ack! I was making my money back, but something/someone is fecking up the Lindex/$L value! We need to fix it NOW."

P.S. Personally, as I've mentioned, I have about $650USD tied up in this game. And I still think it's been one of the best investments I've made to date. Problem is, I can only do so much with that money to keep it's value increasing faster than the $L is devaluing.
Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
05-31-2006 07:09
From: Cortex Draper

Elimination of premium stippends is stupid from a business view as it will cause many to tier down. Many people dont care about land and only hold a premium for the stipends.
Sure some of them MAY buy money from lindex instead (but not all, many hate it), but even if they do, LINDEN LABS ISNT GETTING THEIR MONEY.


4000 premium accounts paying $10 a month makes LL $480,000US a year
Curent amount of trades and fees on Lindex (%3.5 for sale, $0.30us for buy) make LL $650,000US a year (if the daily transactions remained fairly constant).

Why are you still paying premium for just $2000l a month wne you could spend that same money and buy more on Lindex?

btw, in regards to the topic of this forum, specifically sinks, as I've mentioned, I'm not very creative with this, so I hope someone else can come up with a good workable idea, but my worry is that it'll probably be much easier to lower someone's pay than to increase someone's expences. I mean, would you rather get $400l a week, or be forced to pay someone $100l a week?
Ranma Tardis
沖縄弛緩の明確で青い水
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 1,415
05-31-2006 07:12
From: Rasah Tigereye
Don't tell me this, tell that to Lusk owners. And LindenLabs for expecting people to pay so much to buy their land.
The problem is NOT "zOMG, all this money was invested, and we can't get it back" for these people/content providers/land owners. The problem is that, right now, they CAN make the money back (probably knowing full well that they could before spending that money), BUT they see the decline of $L as a serious threat to that money being made back. Essentially this isn't a "Ack! I lost money! Give me yours!," it's "Ack! I was making my money back, but something/someone is fecking up the Lindex/$L value! We need to fix it NOW."

P.S. Personally, as I've mentioned, I have about $650USD tied up in this game. And I still think it's been one of the best investments I've made to date. Problem is, I can only do so much with that money to keep it's value increasing faster than the $L is devaluing.


You would do beter "investing" in a passbook savings account! At least the small amount of intrest is a positve growth instead of a negitive one! If it is for a game it is an expensive one. It is about 1/2 a plane ticket home for me :)
Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
05-31-2006 07:13
From: Ranma Tardis
You would do beter "investing" in a passbook savings account! At least the small amount of intrest is a positve growth instead of a negitive one! If it is for a game it is an expensive one. It is about 1/2 a plane ticket home for me :)


I had %42 growth on my initial investment. Not %4.2, %42. Find me a bank or a stock I can trade that can do this for me and I'll gladly switch.
CJ Carnot
Registered User
Join date: 23 Oct 2005
Posts: 433
05-31-2006 07:47
From: Rasah Tigereye
I had %42 growth on my initial investment. Not %4.2, %42. Find me a bank or a stock I can trade that can do this for me and I'll gladly switch.



Yep but you're paying for that now with the falling value of the Lindex. You can't have it both ways and cry if that investment is losing value at the same rate it gained it in the first place.
Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
05-31-2006 08:12
From: CJ Carnot
Yep but you're paying for that now with the falling value of the Lindex. You can't have it both ways and cry if that investment is losing value at the same rate it gained it in the first place.



It's not loosing value. Thanks to the extra work I had to put in it's staying at relatively the same value. Fact is I still had to put in a lot of extra work for that to happen. How many other vendors, content creators, and land owners, will be willing to do the same instead of, upon seeing their time and investment they put into this game drop more and more, decide to instead just leave and deprive everyone else of their creativity and land?
Ranma Tardis
沖縄弛緩の明確で青い水
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 1,415
value of the Linden
05-31-2006 08:25
The Linden will still head south! I think it is more like the the below than sinks:)



Parsalin Gullwing
The big PG
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 32
05-31-2006 09:14
From: Cheyenne Marquez
IMHO, we are wasting our energies in further pursuing an elimination or reduction to premium stipends. Please understand that I am not necessarily against the elimination of premium stipends ... if it would guarantee a net overall positive effect on our economy and the future overall health of SL. But I am not convinced that it will.

Money flowing into an economy is not, in and by itself, necessarily a bad thing. As a matter of fact, money flowing into an economy is not only good, but it is necessary to sustain a growing economy. So our current problem is not so much LL's ability to add cashflow to the economy, but their inability to remove it in the form of sinks.

Think about it for a minute. How many sinks do we have in SL today? By all accounts, our sinks are paltry in number. LL simply has not devoted their attention to implementing creative ways of removing cashflow from the economy in any measureable way. Again, our problem is that the outflow of cash from the economy, in the form of sinks, are not offsetting the inflow of cash into the economy, in the form of stipends.

Simply put, we need more sinks. Now!

LL simply needs to devote some of their time and talent into creating innovative and effective sinks immediately!

I mean, what would be more indicative of a need for sinks than the recent and increasing movement by many of our residents to BURN THEIR STIPENDS?

And though I believe that their cause is borne of good intent, it is a cause doomed to fail. Why? Because the removal of premium stipends is, for all intents and purposes, wrought with unknown consequences. It is, to say the least, a very precarious maneuver that can have a negative impact on LL's current and future bottom line profit, have a potentially alienating effect on the psychy of our community, the income provided to our content creators in-world could decrease, and it could ultimately stagnate, if not outright curtail, a growing economy and the future growth of SL.

In short, it is now time to turn our attention away from stipends, and toward the creation of innovative and creative sinks that will effectively remove the cashflow from our economy. In so doing, not only will the overall health of the SL economy improve, but so will the relations scarred by this bitter anti/pro stipend debate.

Your ideas for sink suggestions to LL in this thread would be most appreciated. Thank you.




This is a very good opinion, and holds great truth, but i feel tha your looking at things the wrong way.

I think everyone can agree that as new players join new money is made this new money goes into the econmy and it grows. So more people more money added.

I think that the only thing we havent been doing is growing the sinks in an adequate amount as the population (currency) grows bigger.

Simply put, I think our current sinks are fine and no other sinks should be implemented unles they are in such a way unnoticed by the average player.

if your going to do anything with sinks id say simple increase the current sinks. a 512 plot of land costing 512 :O thats less then 2 usd. i think if somone is willing to pay 10 for a premium account they can handle another couple of bucks for that plot of land.

What id like to see:

- A double to the cost of First Land plots from 512 to 1024, The reason for this is who buy them people who are buying and selling land do, this is a very good sink though i thinkl people will fight it very hard.

- A increase to upload Fees, not alot somthing like 5 to 10 lindens will explode this sink in a good way and also help to cull Lax or, "or well might as well", uploads.

- Parcel listing fee increase, from 30 to say 40-50, This will help remove unneeded posts to the find and help us find more intended resaults

- Fianlly, id honestly like to see Free account stipends reinstated, Thre reason for this is in what situation does 50 l a week matter? I mean even if you say ok 1000 people join in this siutation 50k a week isnt maken a difference

The proble isnt the stipends it is the sinks, stipends have grown with the population while sinks have remained the same, doesnt this obviously show a problem? if "IN" grows but "OUT" doesnt then you fill up, we dont want "IN" to match "OUT" because then you have a slow change to stagnent or not moving at all, or "FULL" meaning no more people can join and have fun because the "IN" is to low, so t hey cant afford anything!

Just my 2 cents ^_^
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Elf Clan / ElvenMyst
Join date: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 1,483
05-31-2006 09:40
There is no sink in the world that is going to work so long as LL keeps flooding the market with millions of free L$ every week. Any sink sufficient enough to overcome that would be grossly unfair to paying users.
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Jopsy Pendragon
Perpetual Outsider
Join date: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 1,906
05-31-2006 09:49
From: Wayfinder Wishbringer
There is no sink in the world that is going to work so long as LL keeps flooding the market with millions of free L$ every week. Any sink sufficient enough to overcome that would be grossly unfair to paying users.


Not if the sink provides new services or something of value, which is desirable... instead of mandating fees for existing already 'free' functionality.

I still say they should bring back the popularity score boards.
Vanity can motivate people into squandering their L$ quite well.
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