Self-Hosted Sims - An Idea (and a vote)

I believe it would be a great feature for savvy users to be able to set up their own SL server using Linux (or cygwin-compiled windows) executables so that users can work offline when they're not connected to the internet and can upload their work later.

This would allow for the expansion of SL without LL having to spend extra $$$ on servers, and it would allow for content to be made easier and faster, as you wouldn't have to be online (and lagging) to create.

Also, users hosting their own server could invite friends to join them on their server, allowing for interactivity without lagging the main grid.

Imagine... More to see and do in SL without LL having to worry about extra servers! And with more people on custom servers, the main grid's load would drop drastically, allowing for more users to enter SL at a time.

Here are some ideas for how this could work:
1. Server could be run on Linux (or under windows if compiled with Cygwin). It could be a closed-source executable (if you're afraid we're going to steal your server source).
2. The L$ money market would only be active while connected to the SL grid, so that offline work does not affect your online L$ balance. (E.G. Hackers can't make free money.)
3. Builders could work in a practically lag-free environment from home, then upload their new creations to the SL grid later on.
4. If LL is afraid of this taking away from the Land Use Fees, then they could charge a minimal fee (maybe $40/month) for each month you've got your server up. (So if you've got it up two months, then down a month, then up another month, you're only charged for 3 months...) The alternative would be to require users to have a premium account to host a server that connects with the main grid, or else to charge nothing for the homebrew server and let people be free. (I prefer the latter)

I'm sure various other issues would come up, so you'd have to deal with those as they happen, but I'm sure that this addition to the SL world would be a VERY good idea.

(It was done in Snow Crash, in the Metaverse, and it seemed to be a great idea there.... I don't see why we shouldn't do it here, too!)

Also, imagine... Second Life is currently ahead of the game in the Online Worlds realm... But others have already developed this feature, and more will surely follow. Imagine what this could do for SL... There would be practically no excuse NOT to join SL if this were implemented.

(Also.. another issue.. some might think that creating your own servers and such would make the main grid obsolete... this is not true. There is just too much to do on the main grid to ignore it! Also, this can be avoided by forcing the avatars to have to 1. go to a main-grid teleport or 2. get teleported by a fellow resident in order to get to the custom server.)

This could be built into SL's client if needed.... have a custom server set up that is expandable as much as the hardware would allow...

Just a thought... Kind of unorganized, but you get the idea. What do you think?

good idea but this will mean ll having to give out the sl codes to these servers to make em work - possible backword coding by various other companys and u could see 3rd life appear

than again an offline prim based editor which can 'upload' saved builds, items etc (charged at 10l$) would be v useful

They say it's coming but they need to figure out a workable business model for it first or something.

I'm 100% against anyone else having access to the asset server.

You DO realize that Snow Crash is a work of fiction, right?

Eventually, something like this will be the norm, but I suspect we're a ways away from being able to implement this easily.

P2

I agree that reverse engineering could become a potential problem... However, this could be built into the SL client (kind of like a peer-to-peer thing)...

It is true that someone could reverse-engineer the server to build their own, allowing them to also reverse-engineer the client in order to create a custom world seperate from LL's servers...

This is something that must be considered.

However, I think that the pros outweigh the cons.

Maybe LL could offer the server on a monthly subscription basis? Since they don't have to host, they don't lose money. You get a custom server, and you can register it with LL. Until it is registered, it is worthless. Also, the server type varies based on your monthly fee.

Here are some examples: (In US Dollars)

--> $20.00 one-time fee: offline editing tool, limited, allowing you to create and test object/scripts without having to log in to SL. Uploading content costs L$20 per object. Only the owner can access this "sandbox sim". (No connection to main grid.)
--> $40.00 one-time fee: offline server, one-sim large, allowing complete control of all sim properties (so you can work on larger projects). Uploading content costs L$10 per object. Only the owner can access this "sandbox sim". (No connection to main grid.)
--> $40.00 one-time fee, plus $20.00 per month for each month connected: single-sim server, allowing for offline/online creation and connection to the main grid. Acts as an ordinary island, but is hosted on the user's computer. Transfers to main grid are free. Currency only works in on-line mode (so as to not have hacks for free money).
--> $40.00 one-time fee, plus $50.00 per month for each month connected: multi-sim server. Same as above, but allows for multiple sims to be created and hosted.


These are a few ideas...

Each download would be a different executable with different rules and restrictions. They would require a license code that is specific to each computer (add in some anti-piracy stuff). This code is checked before the server is allowed on the grid. That way, people can't pirate the server and host their own without paying.

I would like to hear more input on this idea...

Of course I realize Snow Crash was fiction. Good fiction, at that.

But just because something is fiction doesn't mean we can't make it reality.

Numerous other 'online worlds' have started doing this, with good results. I believe that we could pull this off.

seeing how this platform was build to test new ideas and do thingthat havent been done. this idea could be good for any game once its made secure then it could be better for every one.

I agree with you there...

The asset server would not be something that the client or person hosting the server would have access to.

When offline, there would be a local asset server, something that has no interaction with the L asset server.

When online, the LL asset server would handle any and all requests.

If there are any discrepancies between the offline and online asset servers, the online server (owned by LL) would override the offline version.

Items created and scripts and such would be stored in offline mode as files on your computer, allowing you to create and upload items for a minimum fee (just as you do textures).

I agree. Security would be the main concern here.

But I believe it possible... with the work of experienced programmers. (LL seems to have plenty...)

Please cast your vote if you like this idea!

http://secondlife.com/vote/index.php?get_id=806

blah!!

Okay so you understand my basic idea...

And it seems that most of you are for the idea in some way. (Current score: 11 to 8, in favour of yes.)

I understand that the way I've set it up may not be the only way to implement this idea.

Feel free to make suggestions!

I would love to see this implemented in some way or another.

After all, LL has stated that expanding the grid is simply a matter of installing a new Linux distro on a server and adding a cookie-cutter server program to it. The rest is maintenance.

We take out the maintenance, the requirement for purchasing a new server, and the installation woes... and what's left?

Interfacing.

Interfacing and distribution of a secure server are the main two problems we encounter.

How can we defeat these problems?

Speaking from a Linux Systems Admin standpoint, implementing this would be highly difficult. First, you would need a machine that's nearly a mirror of the machines LL has to put the sims on. That in and of itself isn't easy, because I can bet those machines are not cheap.

You would need to install and configure Debian to work with a remote system using LDAP and Kerberos and possibly a Beowulf cluster, not to mention a strong encryption system, be it SSL or another, that works in conjunction with the one handled by LL. If you had that encryption key, you could literally murder the asset server with it and crash the whole grid very quickly with a remote attack or even entirely by accident...

Then there's the matter of the bandwidth. A standard rate ADSL package just wouldn't cut the mustard. You'd likely need a business class DSL and a static IP address, unless this software was configured to shout at the asset server and say "Yo, here I am and here's my IP" every time you brought it up. Still, the slow uplink on DSL would really lag your sim to the outside world.


All and all, it's not something for computer novices to try, but personally I would love to see it in play. I'd sign up in a heartbeat. I just think it would be difficult.

I forgot where exactly I read it, but Linden Labs stated that their systems were basically "off-the-shelf linux installations".

Chances are, many big-name distros would have no problem hosting such a system.

It might be a bit difficult setting up your own personal server if you don't know much about Linux networking... this much is true.

But I believe it could be absolutely possible... and for us Linux Hackers that love to play, it would be a wonderful and exciting challenge.

However, if nothing else, an offline creation station would be fun too.

Also, it wouldn't be TOO hard to port the code to M$ Windoze... Cygwin would probably handle it fine. In which case, administration and setup wouldn't be NEARLY as hard.

It may seem daunting, but I honestly don't think it'd be too difficult.

So long as the Resis understand that Linden Labs has no responsibility for the stability or uptime of the personally run servers...

I've been researching what is used in the distributions that are handled by LL as per the Systems Engineer position, (I'm thinking of applying ). Most of the packages are actually freeware. The best way I think it could be done to handle security is to actually go to the point of not just handing out the server software, but the entire zipped up Linux distribution and support software pre-configured. Just put a spec sheet on if for the type of hardware needed to faithfully run the server software. That would handle secure distribution. No need to compile because it installs with the Freeware Linux distribution. Just put a small additional fee for the trouble of zipping it up.

For interfacing. If you have a dynamic IP, which most people do, the local server software could have a hard-coded IP to another LL computer that would then connect the local sim to the remote asset server as an active sim using the local server's IP address. That way the communication would be there without too much difficulty. For those that fork out the money for a static IP, they could submit that IP to LL and have it added to the asset server directly, since Static IP machines are generally kept online 24/7 anyway.

If the local sim is behind a router, you would need to configure port forwarding or set it as the DMZ so there's no confusion.

Food for though
You do realize LL currently sells sims in auction starting out at $1000 USD and $1250 USD for islands ?

Thats like saying lets chop our hands off so we have to be fed..LMAO

a problem with this idea is the basis that money and other objects are given thru linden labs you would need backdoors and what not and would have alot more problems caused by it then gained in freedoms. Sure it would be good but to have it work would take alot moer time and effort and mind you to have it be in the game world it will ultimately still have prim limits and character limits as due to the fact that the game itself can support so much if you had a bunch of self hosted sims pop up it would hurt the other people in SL and it would also require a massive cost to the consumer ie having a server taht supports linux - 2000+ USD a sim cost 1000+ then internet charges for at least t1 which is gunna run about 500 dollars a month. and like stated b4 u would have more copycats and other things like this game coming out if you change the structure of SL to this extent it will hurt more people then it will help!!!

WONDERFUL!!!

I think this would be a great idea!

We could have SL Linux, in both LiveCD and Install versions (LiveCD would be cheaper as it couldn't save the sim's status). You'd pay for the trouble and for the server package itself.

And since it's all preconfigured.... it's absolutely possible that this could be the best suggestion I've seen yet.

The reason for their price is due to the fact that they actually have to purchase a new server for each sim/island they host.

With the personal server, there would be no computer-purchasing cost, and all they'd have to distribute is the server (or a custom *nix build, as mentioned in the last post).

Would that be SLinux?

Linden Labs sets up new sims periodically, with no problems having to do with backdoors or other such things. I'm sure plenty of hackers have scanned and attempted to penetrate their systems. And so far, no trouble.

It would not be much more trouble for someone to set up their own home server to attatch to the SL server. And if it used encryption authentication and other security measures, there would be little risk.

Yes. And it would rock.

I'd buy both the LiveCD SLinux and the Installation version of SLinux.

I'd even go the extra mile and pay for SLinux Professional Edition, with one free month of getting to play around on the Linden Sim (the one they don't let anyone go to).

If I could just convince LL to let me make use of the server software, I would sit down and build the *nix distro myself. I've done it before for the heck of it using the LFS guide.

You know... If you could get an agreement with them (legally binding if need be) then I would be more than thrilled to help all I can.

I'm not as adept as I'm sure you are, but I would love to learn and help as much as possible.

This is beginning to sound like a very possible (and fun) endeavour.