LindeX "Market Sell" is a Rip Off
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Shaun Altman
Fund Manager
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,011
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05-24-2006 03:45
From: Kazanture Aleixandre I am using lindex 2 or 3 times in a month. But yes you are right if even one couldnt understand something, it means it is not understandable.
So ok, modify it.
But my point was that my L$ buy request is to buy L$ for an island. not to
buy - resell at higher rates. I have better things to spend my time. Islands are being sold for L$ now?? |
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Kazanture Aleixandre
Here I am.
Join date: 5 Oct 2005
Posts: 524
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05-24-2006 03:47
From: Shaun Altman Islands are being sold for L$ now?? No, i bought it from a resident. for a L$ price. it is actually "island transfer" |
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Shaun Altman
Fund Manager
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,011
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05-24-2006 03:49
From: Kazanture Aleixandre No, i bought it from a resident. for a L$ price. it is actually "island transfer" Ahh, gotcha. I was about to put a buy order in too.  |
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Herzog Svarog
The Wise(ass)
Join date: 9 Nov 2004
Posts: 74
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05-24-2006 03:51
hrm, maybe it's just me, but I've noticed that since they've implimented the new system with buy orders, the value of the L$ has plummeted farther and faster than ever before. So how is this a good thing?
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Doc Nielsen
Fallen...
Join date: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,059
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05-24-2006 03:51
From: Shaun Altman It is very, VERY important that buy orders be present to provide support for L$ prices. Have you not NOTICED the rate of depreciation lately?!
edit: Anyone who wants to buy some of this excess L$ being offered for sale for ANY reason has my 100% support and gratitude. It is SO CRITICAL that we find more buying power to match the selling demand! Shaun - the guy wound up selling his L$ for LESS that he wanted to because of the system! HOW does THAT help inflation? The new shiny™ Lindex isn't helping the situation one little bit - it's making things worse - that's why that slope on the Market Data page is rapidly turning into an exponential curve.
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All very well for people to have a sig that exhorts you to 'be the change' - I wonder if it's ever occurred to them that they might be something that needs changing...?
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Kazanture Aleixandre
Here I am.
Join date: 5 Oct 2005
Posts: 524
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05-24-2006 03:56
Let me explain something, yes new lindex made L$ to lose value faster. But it was a sure end. It is not changing the truth that buy limit should be implemented.
Every change to the lindex will make L$ to lose value faster. Because L$ has a tendency to lose value. It is about the imbalance of economic parameters of SL.
And this will cause, every change, every announcement, every new movement, even every post, speculations, EVERYTHING to make L$ to lose value.
L$ is a big building with bad foundation. Each touch to it will damage it. Even you think the touch is a good move, it will make it worse.
You must change the basic parameters to make things stable:
money supply&money sink.
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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05-24-2006 03:57
From: Doc Nielsen The new shiny™ Lindex isn't helping the situation one little bit - it's making things worse - that's why that slope on the Market Data page is rapidly turning into an exponential curve. Don't forget also that you now have to have US$ credit balance on your account before buying cash, rather than it just going straight to your preferred billing card. If I want to buy $10 worth of L$, why should I have to put $25 in there and leave the rest tied up until next tierday? That's clearly not beneficial either - because it'll put off a lot of people who would buy small amounts. $25 is about L$8000 when I just checked, so if I want L$10,000 ($31.17) I might end up having to have a $50 balance tied up unnecessarily. I repeat, again, where is Vasudha Linden's "expert analysis" in all this? I'm quite sure this mess is all her doing. Lewis |
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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05-24-2006 03:59
From: Kazanture Aleixandre You must change the basic parameters to make things stable: money supply&money sink. You forgot to change the biggest economy destabilisation problem : Panic sellers and land barons. Why not deal with those before touching things that aren't a problem? Lewis |
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Shaun Altman
Fund Manager
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,011
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05-24-2006 04:03
From: Doc Nielsen Shaun - the guy wound up selling his L$ for LESS that he wanted to because of the system!
HOW does THAT help inflation?
The new shiny™ Lindex isn't helping the situation one little bit - it's making things worse - that's why that slope on the Market Data page is rapidly turning into an exponential curve. Well I'm all for reading instructions and clearly understanding, or asking for assistance, prior to pushing random buttons. What do you want me to say? It's like those people who come here sometimes upset because someone bought their land for L$1 after they set the price, clicked the checkbox AND clicked ok on the confirmation dialog. I mean, yes, it's a bummer that this happened when they didn't want it to. And yes, I feel bad for the people who do this kind of thing without reading and clearly understanding, OR asking for assistance. But at the end of the day, is it ANYONE else's job but yours to save you from yourself? It is a lousy state of affairs when EVERYONE but the decision maker should have to bear the responsibility when someone makes a bad, rushed, uninformed or improperly thought through decision. Why can't people be responsible for their own actions? |
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Kazanture Aleixandre
Here I am.
Join date: 5 Oct 2005
Posts: 524
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05-24-2006 04:08
From: Lewis Nerd You forgot to change the biggest economy destabilisation problem : Panic sellers and land barons. Why not deal with those before touching things that aren't a problem?
Lewis We already saw your point Lewis, months ago. And some agreed with you, and some not. But the point is you are posting the same things at all of your 1000(maybe above 1000 in these days.) posts. "this is a game there cant be an economy" And it is like posting to the scripting forum: "Hey guys just stop writing codes, this is not a development platform this is a game". We are here, and discussing, because we believe that SL has an economy. It is making your posts pointless. No matter how many you posted to the forum, no matter you replied to all of the posts against your posts with logical or not logical messages. |
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Dnate Mars
Lost
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 1,309
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05-24-2006 04:10
There is just one little key that you seemed to have missed, when you do a market sell, it tells you an "estimated proceeds." If you would have looked at that, you would have known what your sale price would have been.
I am one that is glad that the market is behaving the way it is. I am hoping that very soon the market will begin to stabilize. That is the best thing for the economy.
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Visit my website: www.dnatemars.comFrom: Cristiano Midnight This forum is weird.
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CJ Carnot
Registered User
Join date: 23 Oct 2005
Posts: 433
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05-24-2006 04:20
From: Shaun Altman Why can't people be responsible for their own actions? Moral standards are FALLING THROUGH THE FLOOR. Linden Labs MUST ACT NOW and impose Gorean standards of behaviour for the good of ALL RESIDENTS. Henceforth all female residents MUST refer to themselves in the 3rd person and submit themselves to the ownership of a man who will henceforth bear all responsibilty for their actions. ITS THE ONLY WAY TO REINSTATE SENSIBLE VALUES. ANYONE DENYING THIS IS CLEARLY AN OSTRICH. |
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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05-24-2006 04:22
From: Kazanture Aleixandre We already saw your point Lewis, months ago. And some agreed with you, and some not. But the point is you are posting the same things at all of your 1000(maybe above 1000 in these days.) posts. "this is a game there cant be an economy"
And it is like posting to the scripting forum: "Hey guys just stop writing codes, this is not a development platform this is a game".
We are here, and discussing, because we believe that SL has an economy. It is making your posts pointless. No matter how many you posted to the forum, no matter you replied to all of the posts against your posts with logical or not logical messages. Not once have I said that there shouldn't be an economy. Every game has an economy, with rare items and suchlike being valued against other items or game currency. My problem is with the over-emphasis on the economy, to the exclusion of virtually every other aspect of the potential that SL holds, and how certain individuals are dragging the market where they want it to go for their own benefit, at the expense of tens of thousands of others who are just here to have fun. In TSO, for example, because people cheated and made millions of simoleans through botting - specifically prohibited in the ToS - the two year anniversary gift (mystic tree) changes hands for millions of simolenans, a figure in itself almost impossible to achieve through regular gameplay, then you see individuals with perhaps 20 or 30 of these trees. Same with rare pets, some go for 12 million. Because one side cheated, the amount of money rolling around became insignificant and the prices went up and up to the point where you are only likely to have these special items if you a) earnt them, b) were given them by someone leaving, c) bought them using 'dirty money'. Nowadays, a million simoleans sells on ebay for $3, when in days gone by it might have been $10 or $15. I have seen how the drive for real life profit has destroyed Sims Online - and I don't want it to happen to SL either. Lewis |
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Pham Neutra
Registered User
Join date: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 478
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05-24-2006 04:28
We can debate a long time about who is responsible for the "loss" that Wayfinder experienced. This does not change the fact, that introducing the "New LindeX" without much of a (layman compatible) description and explanation will have cost a lot of residents a lot of money. A few playing the stock exchange game will have profited - especially in the first hours, where many did not understand why their sell order suddenly were filled at 10% below market value. The spread is much smaller now and so is the chance to "make a quick buck with the suckers". All these deals are legitimate of course and those waiting for a chance to daytrade at the LindeX surely will have more fun now. I still fail to see why this is "trying to help the community"  This should have been introduced with much more information and warning! |
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Doc Nielsen
Fallen...
Join date: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,059
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05-24-2006 04:31
From: Lewis Nerd
I repeat, again, where is Vasudha Linden's "expert analysis" in all this? I'm quite sure this mess is all her doing.
Lewis
Good question - and you are probably right too! Historical precedents suggest you aren't going to hear much from the perpertrator - instead some hapless scapegoat will be pushed into the spotlight to parrot the party line (Hi Lawrence  ) and absorb much of the blame by association.
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All very well for people to have a sig that exhorts you to 'be the change' - I wonder if it's ever occurred to them that they might be something that needs changing...?
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Kazanture Aleixandre
Here I am.
Join date: 5 Oct 2005
Posts: 524
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05-24-2006 04:31
From: Lewis Nerd Not once have I said that there shouldn't be an economy. "1) It's a game, economies are for real life, SL just has a money changing system." /130/29/108595/1.html#post1051918 |
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Fade Languish
I just build stuff...
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,760
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05-24-2006 04:37
There could be clearer information for those not familiar with such a system. The information is there, it just needs to smack people in the face a bit more, with the difference between the options clearly spelled out. Limit buys were much needed however, and it was abnormal not to have them in the first place.
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ReserveBank Division
Senior Member
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,408
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05-24-2006 04:40
So when you can take the L$ you earned and cash it out for real US Dollars and make $150,000/yr, would you still consider it a game? Or an economy? I guess you missed this article.. Let me inform you. The Virtual Rockefeller Anshe Chung is raking in real money in an unreal online world. By Paul Sloan December 1, 2005 http://money.cnn.com/magazines/business2/business2_archive/2005/12/01/8364581/index.htm?cnn=yes To understand the lucrative real estate empire Anshe Chung has created, it helps to spend some time with her "in world." There, she might teleport you to one of her islands, on the continent she's named Dreamland. You can stroll through the floating city she built 700 feet above a desert, walk through elegant Arabian-style homes on land she leases, strike up a conversation in Japanese amid her Asian gardens, or shop for a grand piano in one of her 600 boutiques. It's all virtual, of course--part of a flourishing online universe called Second Life. And if it sounds absurd, consider this: While Anshe won't talk about how much money she's making ("I'm careful not to stir animosity," she says), Philip Rosedale, the founder and CEO of Linden Lab, which runs Second Life, estimates that she's bringing in around $150,000 a year--in real, hard cash. |
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Kazanture Aleixandre
Here I am.
Join date: 5 Oct 2005
Posts: 524
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05-24-2006 04:43
From: ReserveBank Division So when you can take the L$ you earned and cash it out for real US Dollars and make $150,000/yr, would you still consider it a game? Or an economy? I guess you missed this article.. Let me inform you. The Virtual Rockefeller Anshe Chung is raking in real money in an unreal online world. By Paul Sloan December 1, 2005 http://money.cnn.com/magazines/business2/business2_archive/2005/12/01/8364581/index.htm?cnn=yes To understand the lucrative real estate empire Anshe Chung has created, it helps to spend some time with her "in world." There, she might teleport you to one of her islands, on the continent she's named Dreamland. You can stroll through the floating city she built 700 feet above a desert, walk through elegant Arabian-style homes on land she leases, strike up a conversation in Japanese amid her Asian gardens, or shop for a grand piano in one of her 600 boutiques. It's all virtual, of course--part of a flourishing online universe called Second Life. And if it sounds absurd, consider this: While Anshe won't talk about how much money she's making ("I'm careful not to stir animosity," she says), Philip Rosedale, the founder and CEO of Linden Lab, which runs Second Life, estimates that she's bringing in around $150,000 a year--in real, hard cash. It is not what i said, it is what lewis said; you should reply to his post, not mine You must read whole of the post, and the reply post to understand and write better. Or you will misunderstand posts like this. |
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Shaun Altman
Fund Manager
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,011
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05-24-2006 04:50
From: CJ Carnot Moral standards are FALLING THROUGH THE FLOOR.
Linden Labs MUST ACT NOW and impose Gorean standards of behaviour for the good of ALL RESIDENTS. Henceforth all female residents MUST refer to themselves in the 3rd person and submit themselves to the ownership of a man who will henceforth bear all responsibilty for their actions. ITS THE ONLY WAY TO REINSTATE SENSIBLE VALUES. ANYONE DENYING THIS IS CLEARLY AN OSTRICH. Erm.. huh? |
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Jason Foo
Old Timer
Join date: 6 Feb 2004
Posts: 105
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05-24-2006 05:14
You know what? I actually think the system is a good one, and will level out quite shortly and pretty much pinpoint a target market rate. As I have said before, wait 2 weeks, and repost your complaints. Let us give it a little time to catch on, and maybe teach people how to use it.
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If my doctor told me I had only six minutes to live, I wouldn't brood. I'd type a little faster.
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CJ Carnot
Registered User
Join date: 23 Oct 2005
Posts: 433
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05-24-2006 05:31
From: Shaun Altman Erm.. huh? Satire |
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Anshe Chung
Business Girl
Join date: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 1,615
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05-24-2006 12:11
I agree that this "feature" is greatly misleading and much too confusing for average sellers. You read "best buy 340", but then end up with, say, 400 as average rate because your sell quantity exceed the best buy order. The money then goes to some day trader and in part to Linden Lab as day trading fee. Try place limited sell orders (enjoy compete against the day traders who will undercut you!). <begin infomercial> Luckily of course we still exist to save you! Just visit www.anshechung.com and there you can sell almost any quantity for fixed rate. Anshe is your friend. Anshe is your saviour. <end infomercial> Hehehehe Flame away From: Wayfinder Wishbringer A couple of days ago I went to sell 50,000 L$ on LindeX. I saw a new option there that I hadn't used before, "Market Sell". This option is described as:
"Just tell us how many Linden Dollars you'd like to sell, and LindeX will automatically match you with buyers. "
The day that I was selling L$, the highest ratio to US$ was L317/$1. Not good, but that's what was there. So I figured, hey, the worst I do is L317/$1. Maybe I'll get a little better even. So I placed the order.
Imagine my surprise when I immediately received a cheerful note from Linden Lab announcing that they'd sold my L$ for L411/$1!!!!
That's right, a sale from which I should have generated at the very least $157.73 netted me a grand total of US$121.54, which was $36.19 less than I should have earned. This is a TWENTY THREE PERCENT loss on my sales income. And where did that extra $36.19 go? You guess.
I contacted Linden Lab about this. Received no answer. I asked them (insisted, really) to take back their $121.54 and return my L50,000 so I could sell it at an honest price. No answer. I told them I would give them the benefit of the doubt and assume the system was temporarily busted. No answer. I told them I would take this to the forums. No answer.
Linden Lab presented that they would sell my L$ to matching buyers... but then traded my L$ at L94 higher than the going market.
Linden Lab wants us to believe that they're working in our best interest. They want us to believe that they'll "never sell L$" in competition with their customers. But then we see something like this and any trust we might have had in their company goes down the drain. What is there for us to respect and trust in such policies?
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ANSHECHUNG.COM: Buy land - Sell land - Rent land - Sell sim - Rent store - Earn L$ - Buy L$ - Sell L$ SLEXCHANGE.COM: Come join us on Second Life's most popular website for shopping addicts. Click, buy and smile
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Wayfinder Wishbringer
Elf Clan / ElvenMyst
Join date: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 1,483
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05-24-2006 13:22
From: Anshe Chung I agree that this "feature" is greatly misleading and much too confusing for average sellers. You read "best buy 340", but then end up with, say, 400 as average rate because your sell quantity exceed the best buy order. The money then goes to some day trader and in part to Linden Lab as day trading fee. <begin infomercial> Luckily of course we still exist to save you! Just visit www.anshechung.com and there you can sell almost any quantity for fixed rate. Anshe is your friend. Anshe is your saviour. <end infomercial> Hehehehe Flame away LOL. No flame here. After this debacle, I'm actually going to check out your board. ;D [edit] Checked out your board. Your current "sell" rate is 357/$1... which is a bit above LindeX... but so what? At least your board is honest. The fee is there, quoted straight, no monkey business. That's how LindeX should be run. Like you said, their method is confusing and "greatly misleading". The Market Sell system seems to be nothing more than a way for day traders to make bucks off of unsuspecting, uninformed victims. It's a boiling recipe for creating angry sellers who feel they've been ripped off by Linden Lab. I'd think they would want to avoid doing anything that would gain that type of reputation and ill-will from their customers. Even at the price difference, I'm going to be greatly tempted to do business with you next time. I'll live with the L20 difference to do business with an honest merchant.
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Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
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05-24-2006 22:13
From: Wayfinder Wishbringer The Market Sell system seems to be nothing more than a way for day traders to make bucks off of unsuspecting, uninformed victims. Hmm, let's see. I can sell $5000L instantly right now, and get US$13.95, or I can add myself to a large queue and sell $5000L MAYBE by tomorrow, if at all, and get US$14.75 (at $327L/$1US) That's less than a dollar difference for a guaranteed instant sell where I don't have to bother coming back to see where the market has moved, and whether my sale actually has a chance. I think those few pennies are worth my time. So I think it's a pretty good system for people, especially those looking to quickly get rid of some $L. It definitely beats undercutting. |
