A freemarket SL

I stopped reading right there.

Well judging from the general tone of the Lindon BBs and most of the "in world sims" I would disagree. Since I joined SL my AV has got sore feet walking through countless areas and almost without exception nearly everyone is trying to sell something, be it land, property, in world art, porn, or weapons to name just a few. It has even been reported that some Mall/shop owners are selling First World products for Lindon Dollars.

My interest in Second Life has always been commercial and I would be surprised if I am in a minority. That is not to say creativity cannot co-exist with commercialism as one enables the other

Morning,

I'd suggest you look over my SL profile. People find it so hard to pigeonhole me, asking me what I do here. Well, in part, you're seeing it now.

What I tend to call myself is a 'Sponsor.' I'm already full-up on projects to assist, but its borne some good that you can't place a L$ value on. For example, the Numbakulla sim lasting as long as it has so far. Or InnerLife having a quiet sim to do baseline experiments from. Tis just a matter of looking; Things like this aren't widely advertized. Perhaps this is something I should discuss more on the weblog?

I think that's why I still have the Money Tree around. I'll stop someone now and then, and just talk. See what newcomers' needs are - preferably beyond the need for L$. Usually ends in a Friends exchange. And one or two I see around in the Forums as well.

It's important to discuss the possibilities of "dangerous ideas"!



It's a personal wish that I'd like like to see more than one of these, eventually... run by Residents on their own emerging continents, where they create these organizations. Far off in the future, but headed in that way.



I believe that there'll be more tools for estates to deal with greefer kin. I certainly hope so! Some of these tools would optimally invalidate the need for "false gun analogues" (i.e. we're in a very flexible electronic simulation--just because avatars can look like police in here doesn't mean that the labors of the law offline need be carried into here, if we can dispatch much quicker with a EJECT button).

I still wonder about "paid police forces" through--similar groups are common in SL currently, like club security and the like. Of course, they must not shoot back in no-kill zones, and there's an amount of roleplaying going along. Speaking of, the dystopian roleplayer in me hopes to see some really nice Judge Dredd uniforms, as well as the uniqueness of how each estate may establish their own guidelines.

What the heck? How is that a freemarket? At all??

Elimination of land tier... who will pay the servers? Who will get the land?
Elimination of basic account fees? What does that even mean? What fees?
Income tax? That is like the complete opposite of a free market.
High profile stock exchange? Established by who? The "state"? How is that a free market?
Bank of LindenLand? Hello? Can you get more socialist than this?
Removal of all restraints on commerce... what restraints??

I won't bother with the rest. Why didn't you name the thread: "Fascism in SL"?

Myself and all of my friends must be the other 10% then

Love to find out whose ass you pulled that figure out of.

You are one of the few who understand the tenants of Capitalism around here. Well Done, Sir!

Judge Torley, it has a nice ring to it.
And nice Lawgivers.
And a Lawmaster to ride.

On a side note: i've seen good lawgivers on slexchange (including comic exclusive double whammy ammo)

On the main point.

Jamie, yes, he does. What he seems to lack understanding of is LL is a business.. the teir pays for servers, and taking stipends will massively reduce premium members. It would drive Linden Labs bankrupt and close SL.

Ooo! Ooo! I'll have four islands, please!

Seriously, I understand the problem of tier "charging people to provide stuff", but it has to be there, otherwise the demand of land would be too big. It's clearly a punitive charge rather than a hosting one, else it would have come down as servers and bandwidth got cheaper. That's not supposed to be an insult or complaint, it's a tactical charge, just like the punitive UK tax on petrol.



Income tax is to pay for government services. But the tax would have to be in L$, which LL can't do much with.



The place would explode with RL immigrants, the majority of which would quickly go bust as in existing capitalism because of a lack of recreational users to act as customers, and would thereafter become disenfranchised and quit.

Now adays, I still have no idea why people are so concerned with:

a) 500$L/week (under US$2.00/week)
b) 50$L/week (under US$.20/week)

I mean, we're talking about amounts that take us minutes to make in real life. Are they really such a big deal to keep. Now alot of Panther's ideas won't work, becuase they lose Linden Labs money, but why do people feel so dependant on the stipend they get in Second Life. If I was as worried as people seem about US$2.00/week, I wouldn't have a cable modem. I know that much.

I am not dependent on my stipend.

I am dependent on other people's stipend.

You've got to get customers from somewhere.

Jamie you were wrong, Barbarra is the one who really understands capitalism.

Who are the tenants of capitalism and where do they live? Did you mean tenets?

Yeah, but in the long run, other people's stipends make your income become of less and less value as the amount of money in circulation goes up. If Linden Labs just gave away $L1,000,000 randomly to someone, that person would be richer. The problem is that every other person in Second Life would be slightly poorer at the same time. The value of your money isn't dependant soley on how much of it you have, but is also tied into how much everyone else has.

We can wax philosophic about a metaverse with a free economy but the reality goes way beyond your list.

The experience provided in Second Life is the creation of a for-profit company in the United States. And while Linden Lab is a testament to what makes the United States' regulated and free enterprise economy so great, it cannot be more than a best case example of the Truman Show for those that function within it.

Someday we'll all get the opportunity to swallow a colored pill but I don't see Linden Lab being the purveyer of it.

I'm not sure this is the case. How much $L is in circulation right now? Do we even know? The value of the $L to the $US has declined because more people want to sell $L than buy them. How many SL residents sell their $L?

It seems to me that the problem isn't my $L500 stipend. The problem is the people trying to sell off their $L. More people are trying to cash out than cash in. So, to all you free market capitalists out there who want the government (Linden Labs) to intervene and dry up the supply of other people's money so you can increase the value of your own, put your $L where your mouth is. Donate a few $L1,000,000 to LL to be destroyed. See if that will drive up the value before you start taking away money I paid good money for.

The stipend, to me and as stated before, is what my persona 'earns' at his job. I work nights real world and have little true time to both work and enjoy myself on sl. The stipend for me simulated my persona, my avatar, working his own job to pay for in game.

If you remove my stipend i will be among the masses who sell their land and go to basic, free acounts. I can make 200 or so a week hosting slingo as I am now, and not have to pay pesky premium fees if I have no return on it.. because premium is a waste of my money if there is no stipend.

If you think the linden dollar is devaluing, go donate a large hunk of yours to be destroyed. Don't take it away from the havenots.

Why won't a bank work on SL?

In the simplest concept, a bank turns profit from making loans. It charges interest for these loans. In order to gain the funds to make these loans, it takes on depositors to whom it pays quite a bit less interest than it makes in loaning out their deposits. So LOAN INTEREST - DEPOSIT INTEREST PAID = PROFIT.

The trouble is... it's a tad difficult (or impossible) to collect funds due from players, because there is absolutely no enforcement agency on SL. So someone borrows money from your bank, says, "SUCKER!"... and you're up the proverbial creek.

Person would be insane to open a bank under such circumstances. As it stands, many builders and scripters these days require a 50% down payment, plus regular payments as a project progresses. Why? Because there are too many people out there who have ordered a project then lost interest in the project and refused to pay the builder.

Multiply that by about 1000... we have the concept of an SL bank. Wouldn't be worth the paper it's not written on.

Not sure where you are getting your numbers, but they sound way off. We're doing fine... everyone I know is doing fine.. (except for not enough time) and none of us are "freeloaders" or "land owners". well not land barons which is what I think you meant. And considering that our business supports $USD 195 sim payment.. thank you, yes.. we are NOT running at a loss.

A load of old pony.

Seriously.

I work my ass off and am then justly rewarded with solid sales. I'm making great money here and I have tiny tier. I don't know where that perspective is coming from. The reality is that SL is a fantastic business opportunity for many creative, hard-working people.

(Just for perspective, SL is paying my tier, my cable bill, my gas and a few other things. That's *not* running at a loss. And I don't even produce as much as I could.)

I'll have to run out and tell the realworld credit card companies!

There's lots of realworld unsecured investment, mining shares tends to be a big one (over here in AU, prospecting companies can be a no-liability enterprise). Credit cards are the other big one - credit ratings exist, because the loans are not secured. (although I hear this changed in the US recently)

The expectation is, however, that the return for such an unsecured investment is particularly high, to make up for the risk.

I wasn't talking about unsecured loans. I'm talking about collectability period.

There's a difference between loaning unsecured money... and loaning without any legal recourse whatsoever.

You loan money to someone on SL and they refuse to pay, you know the stance Linden Lab takes? TOO BAD, BUBBA!

So until someone figures out a way to force people to repay loans with interest, the idea of a "bank" is just a pipe dream.

However, if you wish to do so, I'd love to take out a loan for say, four or five million right away. Make that ten million.