Forget waiting til stipends are cut..

If they are ever cut, that is. But, why wait to see if they are or aren't. Show the panicdrivers what will happen if you boycott the lindex now.

I urge everyone to refuse to buy lindens off the lindex. Let the greedmongers see what happens when there is no demand because it isn't attractive anymore. I foresee the lindex dropping in value...its only worth what THE BUYERS ARE WILLING TO PAY.

Is punishing those who aren't greedmongers going to prove any point?

If stipends do get cut any, it won't be becasue of a few screaming trolls here like to pretend they know how a personal-interest driven economy works.

It'll be because, in the end, it works better for everyone. Right now stipends are slowing the market from settling on a truly fair price - the price that results from the tug between the sellers and the buyers. But that's all, just slowing. As the market approaches that point and SL itself metures some as a platform you won't want a stipend anymore. In fact, SL will want to consider dumping the premium account offer and just have tier and the LindeX.

This brings more power to you as a consumer. You get better control over how much you care to spend on SL both in buying from other residents and owning land. This makes the market more stable for those making content. It screams win-win to me.

So, again: If stipends are to be removed it should only be because the residents would better be served by buying at thier personal interest levels.

Dude have you been watching the exchange rate? It's happening now. With the introduction of limit buying it has become a buyer's market. The value of the L has been steadily dropping all day. People would rather sell to a sure buy offer than wait for a higher price it seems.

Oh wait.... I forgot. This is all the fault of stipends.

The stipend IS my personal interest level. Cutting the stipend is lose-lose. And yes I WILL ALWAYS WANT A STIPEND. Do not try to think for me. I pay for premium mostly for the stipend, so I don't have to work 2 jobs, one rl, one sl.

I will not buy from the lindex if stipends are cut- merchants will simply lose my business.

To answer your first question: Yes. Because removing the stipend is hurting those who aren't in this game to make USD profit. Theres no other real point to it but to make it more profitable to those who sell their lindens for profit. A large portion of SL sees it as a game. and another large chunk thinks buying lindens marks a loser.

You're always so needlessly hostile. I see a future that brings more power to your L$ and USD and you just freak at the change, and spew assertions with no backing.

Ok. Well, I won't be missing you when it happens. And it will happen.
It has to to get SL to the goals they've set out for it.

SL is a game. Ok, no argument. I'm one who provides stuff to play with. I'm allowd to ask for some compensation for it. If folks like it, they'll pay for it. (It's not much to ask, after all. One or two USD for something you can play with untill you're sick of it seems a hell of an entertainment deal to me.)

And I think the idea that there are folks who see buying L$ as a mark of a "loser" is entirely fabricated.

Here's the situation/problem as I see it, although I don't pay much attention to it (economy). But I do find the arguments sort of entertaining.

In my opinion the economy has been based, roughly, off stipends. Using $500/month as the basis. People build things, and price accordingly based off the fact that many (most?) players "make" $500/month. The price of objects in world have reflected this.

Now the money exchanges have (or more pointedly will) start to more heavily influence in game pricing, while stipends (our base income) becomes less a factor over in game pricing of things. As buying $Lindens becomes better for buyers, prices of items in game will, imho, eventually reflect these changes. Your L$500 box's value has dropped considerably (in RL $, which is really what this all boils down to, no?) due to the (inflated or even deflated) exchange rate. So you'll adjust your box to L$750, or L$200 or whatever, based not on stipends, but on the current LindeX and the underlaying RL$ value.

Anywho, that's my hunch. The content pricing market will revolve around The Market, and not off the constant non-floating stipend. Sort of a shame really. We have a solid basis of value, the L$500/month stipend. But the market (LindeX/IGE/etc) has changed that (due to many reasons, not just land-baron/corporation selling vast chunks of cash). Again, I think this will shortly be directly reflected in game with pricing of items bouncing around almost as much as the exchange rate. :p

So, back to your quote, sure it's only worth what buyers will pay. But sellers will compensate for this, driving prices in game up/down to match the economy. Eventually it'll settle, more or less to a point where L$ buyers and content sellers are on more or less equal terms. Especially so once all the stupid economically skewing factors are removed (rating bonuses, dwell ... that is the "money for nothing" influx of L$). Stipends are another matter, and frankly I don't think they're bad at all. It's a flat base rate, well if you're willing to subscribe for it anyway -- which I believe the majority do.

Others have seen it and noted it on this forum. Some of these people even at the WELCOME AREA. And of course I'm hostile, when you try to take away part of the COMPENSATION for me paying my premium fees. I don't sell lindens, and I really don't care if the rate drops to 1000L to the USD. As long as SL honors its agreement. I don't spew assertions wihtout backing..as others can note, ther eis a culture who see SL as a game. There is a culture who see buying lindens as failure.

I already pay 22.50 usd every three months. I have paid for my entertainment, and taking away part of that package from -me- for -your- benefit is wrong.

If you really want to make money, raise your prices. You''ll make it, or fail as a business. Nothing in any agreement said LL was responsible to keep you making money. Nor that they had to keep the linden value at a certian point.

If someone undercuts your prices for an alternative to your product- thats business, deal with it.

Really, I've always assumed you could get more Lindens buying off Lindex than waiting for the stipend to arrive.

What is the Stipend for Premium? $L 500/week? It was when I was last premium.

The only reason i dropped being Premium is that i could get more Lindens using that USD $10 on Lindex. It's what? 322/$1 now? Whereas stipend would only give you L$ 2000. Buying USD $10 of Lidens would get you L$ 3220 (minus the whole .30 cent thing).

I also pay 15 dollars a month of teir, which if cut, would affect not only me but others in my groups.

You're proposing that people boycott hard working merchants an land renters for something that LINDEN LAB does? Not a well-thought-out plan, I think.

If you want to boycot Linden Lab, perhaps you could find a way to do so without hurting innocent parties.

Do you say this to all those that are for killing stipends? That would be hurting innocent premium members for something the free market and linden sellers do. How is that any different?

Ah, true but that's if you own land.

As the guy who posted this thread said, He's only paying for premium for the stipend.

Land owning is a whole 'nother ball game. Now, that's a costly affair which I think I'll soon be heading toward. LOL.

Jump up and down and make belive all you want. A few trolls and jerks at the WA does not a culture make.

I'm not taking anything away. You and many others just didn't understand that the stipends were a way to rapidly build an economy. Now that the economy exists, it's time to start migrating from them. Once it happens, your 3-month contract will be fulfilled, and then you get to decide to start a new one with less of a stipend. Perhaps LL will offer something for a premium that will make up for that, perhaps not. (I think they should)

It's how LL will build up thier margins so they can profit from running SL. That's just how life works.

Your 22.5 goes to specific things. Read your contract carefully. It grants you access to land ownership. The entertainment part comes from other residents. I know you'll bluster at me that it's otherwise. I know better though.

And I don't need to raise my prices, even with the falling L$ value. I'm not profiteering (that broad brush with which you paint folks who sell L$) I'm just making a little beer-n-skittles money making toys for folks. I can't see that as evil, just me offering some value in exchange for some value...

And therein lies the problem with YOUR premise. Not everyone sees things the way you do and many don't even care to entertain your premise as valid. I certainly don't.

You can "ask for some compensation" all you want. You are NOT entitled to it. If you do or do not receive the compensation you think your "work" deserves, you are certainly entitled to change your asking price or to quit - quit SL entiterly or simply quit making things period. SL will continue without you and without many other content makers. For someone who has been around as long as you have, it amazes me that you might even imply that the death of "compensation" for you or any other individual "content provider" might seriously negatively affect any SL resident's experience if you didn't provide whatever products you choose to make and offer.

Get a grip. If you don't create whatever, and I have bought a few of your things, then someone else will - maybe even myself. But the point remains, you are not "entitled" to compensation for squat. You can continue to make and offer a product - if someone else desires it and makes you an offer that you both agree on, more power to you. But you aren't entitled to squat just because you made anything.

And your assessment of what entertainment value your products have is superfluous at best, self-serving at worst.

OTOH, unless and until LL decides to do away with stipends, ALL RESIDENTS are entitled to whatever stipend is appropriate to their account level.

If you're offended, shrug. That's the way I see things.

*I* posted this thread.



I also said mostly, not only.

Dear me - as I've said many times I dont' expect anything, I'm offering to trade. My premise is sound. You've beat the hell out of a straw man.

"Get a grip" indeed.

Your post can end here. When you stop going after your make believe entitlement to compensation, talk to me.

And I'm not offering to kill my stipend so you can make more money.

You're accusing me of something I don't belive. I have never said, and will never say, that I'm entitled to anything.

Then leave my stipend alone. I paid for the frikking thing.

I never said you had.

All I've said so far is that I belive, in the end, buying on the LindeX will be better for folks than having the stipend.

And I believe the stipend approach will be better than the lindex.

I think we can agree to disagree.

I can at least say basic stipends need to be limited to 30-60 days tops from account creation. At that point they will know if they want to go premium or not.

Perhaps we will have to agree to disagree.
But one last question: For the sake of clarity lets assume our hypothetical resident doens't want land; How is it better for her to spend 72/year for 500L$ a week if the LindeX both provides more L$ overall and allows her to spend less in any given month if she doesn't want to or can't afford the USD?

Seems to me the LindeX grants significantly more power to residents than does paying a fee to LL.

Jonas, I have said nothing about killing stippends, for or against. But I am against short-sighted proposals that attack the wrong people.

If you want to accomplish something in a campaign against cutting stippends, I recommend you don't attack the people that pay for this system so that you can stippends in the first place. If you boycott LindeX and merchants can't sell their L$ as a result, they'll close shop and your stippend will be worth zip anyway, doesn't matter how many you have.

BUT... let me rethink for a moment here.

IF we all boycott LindeX (which just isn't going to happen, face it)... then people will go elsewhere to sell/buy L$. So hey, well, second thought, propose all you want. Probably will have no effect at all, but at least you're trying to do something about a very real problem.

And if people want the economy to be saved, they need to stop the shortsighted approach of killign stipends. Many won't buy off lindex, and as a result both buy orders from disillusions former or ongiong premiums, and those who won't buy in will dry up further. Sales will suffer.

If the stipend gets cut the lindex will suffer further in the long run, and we will end up with a crash. Then the high value on the lindex will be worth zip, no matter how 'high' it goes.