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Linden Lab thinking about printing money and selling it... |
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Cheyenne Marquez
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 940
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05-08-2006 12:52
If Philip posted in the announcement forums that he had a salad for lunch, people would scream that the economy is crashing and burning... Uh huh...I knew it!!! King Philip must be planning to get rid of all the furries. Why else would he become a vegetarian all of a sudden? |
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Kazanture Aleixandre
Here I am.
Join date: 5 Oct 2005
Posts: 524
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05-08-2006 12:53
Paul, what ever our opinions on this change in philosophy, it certainly isn't illegal. You sure? "1.4 Second Life "currency" is a limited license right available for purchase or free distribution at Linden Lab's discretion, and is not redeemable for monetary value from Linden Lab. You acknowledge that the Service presently includes a component of in-world fictional currency ("Currency" or "Linden Dollars" or "L$"  , which constitutes a limited license right to use a feature of our product when, as, and if allowed by Linden Lab. Linden Lab may charge fees for the right to use Linden Dollars, or may distribute Linden Dollars without charge, in its sole discretion. Regardless of terminology used, Linden Dollars represent a limited license right governed solely under the terms of this Agreement, and are not redeemable for any sum of money or monetary value from Linden Lab at any time. You agree that Linden Lab has the absolute right to manage, regulate, control, modify and/or eliminate such Currency as it sees fit in its sole discretion, and that Linden Lab will have no liability to you based on its exercise of such right. "So far everything is ok. " 3.3 Linden Lab retains ownership of the account and related data, regardless of intellectual property rights you may have in content you create or otherwise own. You agree that even though you may retain certain copyright or other intellectual property rights with respect to Content you create while using the Service, you do not own the account you use to access the Service, nor do you own any data Linden Lab stores on Linden Lab servers (including without limitation any data representing or embodying any or all of your Content). " Now, LL is owner of all residents' accounts and L$s actually. If LL starts to sell L$, this means they claim L$ has USD value*. Well, If they own my accounts and L$s(a limited license right), when i sell these L$s(a limited license right), actually i am selling a license owned by LL to a resident for real USD.And this USD goes to LL's bank account.Actually not me, LL is selling it to the other resident because LL is the owner of my L$s(TOS says). And the buyer is paying usd for this L$s(a limited license right) to LL. (It is regardless LL lets me to withdraw their USD using my account(actually it is owned by LL too)). Well, How much L$ sold at lindex so far? Actually LL sold all of these L$s to residents for USD if *(look at above). My question is, has they eve paid taxes for these L$ sells at lindex so far? Just a question, maybe i am wrong. |
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SpankMe Pinkerton
Registered User
Join date: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 158
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05-08-2006 12:56
The idea of LL creating Lindens and selling them at the expense of the communities well-being is corporate greed at its worst. I'm all for a company reaping solid financial rewards for bringing new content into the world... but there comes a time when the "citizens" need to say enough is enough. (A CEO retiring with a 400 million dollar package comes to mind.)
I'm a professional programmer, making some of the most complex scripted items in SL such as the programmable Super Floor and land terraforming robot. I've even been pondering leaving my real job to focus my attention to SL development. But this news is very very (insert 10 veries) disappointing. As if the ridiculous level of greed this implicates is not bad enough... worse of all in my opinion is that they seem to think we are a bunch of idiots who won't understand what this announcement means nor comprehend how truly reprehensible this "new TOS agreement" is. I can't believe at a time that the Linden has already been steadily declining in value they would even be considering this. And, its obvious they aren't just considering this... it has already been decided… that much is clear. I doubt anything short of half the subscribers leaving would make them take an alternate course. Shame on LL and any employee linked to this decision making process. I truly had a lot of respect for LL. If they go through with this and it has the effect on the community and economy that I would expect it to, then I'll probably be taking my skills elsewhere. |
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Svar Beckersted
Registered User
Join date: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 783
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05-08-2006 13:21
Why???? Is that the day he's having chicken?! OMG call in the reserves . Ok Jeanette you are having way too much fun with this, some of these people are really scared. |
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Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
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05-08-2006 13:32
they seem to think we are a bunch of idiots who won't understand what this announcement means nor comprehend how truly reprehensible this "new TOS agreement" is. Totally, except in reverse. _____________________
go to Nocturnal Threads
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Jeanette Hailey
Diva Designs
Join date: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 185
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05-08-2006 13:32
Ok Jeanette you are having way too much fun with this, some of these people are really scared. Scared? I think that's a little over the top, unless you count on SL for your entire livelihood...which would be silly in and of itself. That would be like committing all of your retirement funds to one single high risk stock. I'm curious if anyone has read the material that Robin provided with her announcement. While I don't agree 100% with the contents of those publications (they are external economic analysis, not from LL), they do provide some insight on what LL is planning to do I think. Sounds to me like they might be leaning towards a monetary policy similar to what I suggested about a week ago. Hopefully it's well-thought-out  _____________________
.-~+*Diva*+~-.
Sprocket Island: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Sprocket/68/127/22 |
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
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05-08-2006 14:14
This is yet another squirt of grease on the slippery slope that LL created when they co-opted GOM.
Now LL is competing with it's own residents with regards to reselling abandoned land, which amounts to nothing less than a *cash grab* and put several residents out of business. Linden Land Sales has *cut out* the middleman buy selling land at retail market value. This is wholly unfair competition and does nothing to stimulate economic growth, in fact, the $L continues to devalue. Now LL wants to undercut a devalued $L.....not too bright. Develop a good business model and LL will take it away. Why would anyone in their right mind create innovative ideas for business nowadays? The answer is *they won't*. Congratulations LL for co-opting yet another aspect of SL. The bean counters at at the helm. Grab it while you can folks, SL will not survive another year. _____________________
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Cheyenne Marquez
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 940
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05-08-2006 14:20
But this news is very very (insert 10 veries) disappointing. I'll trade you 2 extremelys and 1 severely for your 10 veries and a linden banshee. |
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kerunix Flan
Registered User
Join date: 3 Sep 2005
Posts: 393
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05-08-2006 14:31
I'll trade you 2 extremelys and 1 severely for your 10 veries and a linden banshee. Can i convert them in A$ ? |
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Ricky Zamboni
Private citizen
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,080
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05-08-2006 14:35
Robin, at best you are economically misguided, and at worst.....well I will leave that to your own imagination What you are talking about is the concept of Linden Labs creating Linden dollars out of thin air and at no cost, which have NO LEGAL VALUE, and selling them for real US Dollars to boost Linden Labs profit line. If you were based in my country I would deem that to be of questionable legality. As for US Federal and State law, well that is both your own and Linden Labs personal responsibility. I have kept a copy of both your own post and my response The minute they begin selling L$ they may as well strike the "L$ have no value" clause from their TOS. Can't have it both ways... |
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Ricky Zamboni
Private citizen
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,080
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05-08-2006 14:40
BTW, I just felt the need to say...
"LL competing with their customers for their own gain? My god, I'm *shocked*."  |
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
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05-08-2006 14:51
BTW, I just felt the need to say... "LL competing with their customers for their own gain? My god, I'm *shocked*." The next thing will be a web-based market place. Of course they will claim that everyone will have greater access to products, but it will kill the current businesses. LL certainly has a double standard when it comes to resident operated business. New Second Life Slogan: "Your Business, Our Profit" _____________________
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Kazanture Aleixandre
Here I am.
Join date: 5 Oct 2005
Posts: 524
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05-08-2006 14:53
"Your Business, Our Profit"  I like it Nothing could explain better |
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Ricky Zamboni
Private citizen
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,080
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05-08-2006 14:56
The next thing will be a web-based market place. Of course they will claim that everyone will have greater access to products, but it will kill the current businesses. LL certainly has a double standard when it comes to resident operated business. New Second Life Slogan: "Your Business, Our Profit" I would be surprised if there wasn't an "Official Linden Lab Web Marketplace" live by the end of the summer. Lawrence recently posted that he's stopped working on Lindex in order to spend time on a "secret project". My money's on that being a shopping portal. Or, given the recent announcement, maybe it's a currency purchase page like There has....  |
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
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05-08-2006 15:04
I think this """Might""" not be happening if people:
1. Would not had complained about the Bonus 2. Complained about dwell 3. Complained about Stipulands 4. Complained about developer Incentives I also think this would not be happening now, if we still had the dwell, DI, Bonus etc etc My Opinions only of course. |
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Michi Lumin
Sharp and Pointy
Join date: 14 Oct 2003
Posts: 1,793
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05-08-2006 15:13
Stipulands the hell's a "stipuland" ? |
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
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05-08-2006 15:21
the hell's a "stipuland" ? A Mis-Spelling. its the pay people get per week for signing up for Second Life. usually 50 lindens for basic and 500 for preminum/US$225.00 lifetime accounts. |
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Michi Lumin
Sharp and Pointy
Join date: 14 Oct 2003
Posts: 1,793
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05-08-2006 15:27
A Mis-Spelling. its the pay people get per week for signing up for Second Life. usually 50 lindens for basic and 500 for preminum/US$225.00 lifetime accounts. So it's kind of like a paychalk. |
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Cheyenne Marquez
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 940
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05-08-2006 15:34
A Mis-Spelling. its the pay people get per week for signing up for Second Life. usually 50 lindens for basic and 500 for preminum/US$225.00 lifetime accounts. So it's kind of like a paychalk. If paychalk = welfare, then yes, sorta like that. |
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Siobhan Taylor
Nemesis
Join date: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 5,476
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05-08-2006 15:48
If paychalk = welfare, then yes, sorta like that. _____________________
http://siobhantaylor.wordpress.com/
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Shaun Altman
Fund Manager
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,011
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05-08-2006 15:54
Opinion: I'm late to this party, having had a busy day, but here is my opinion and reaction to this, which I wrote on Second Citizen late last night right after Robin posted her announcement: LL to Start Selling Lindens - of their own! OK, boys and girls, explain this one to me, posted by Robin in announcements: [copied announcement] OK, now I'm thinking it means this: 1. When they first started Lindex, everyone was all, "Oh don't worry, they aren't creating their own Lindens or selling them, they are helping us sell ours." 2. Now they will be selling their own (unlimited supply) of Lindens. 3. Presumably this is not to actually HELP the economy, but will be done only when "economy can absorb a new infusion of L$ because either other sources have been reduced or sinks have increased." 4. From (3) it follows that the stipends will be removed and the charges for everything - all the sinks - will go up, and new sinks will be created. BUT MAINLY 5. The Lindens will now be in direct competition with content creators who have heretofore sold their Lindens for cash, competing only with each other. Question: Why keep creating content within SL? Question: Does LL really NEED us to create content merely for the other residents? (My answer: No.) veryrattledcoco __________________ C  CP.S. Shaun, I was banging on your IM door last night about this, but you weren't there! Sometimes, even I must sleep! I agree with what you've said here though, and I'm going to pose very similar questions of my own. I absolutely WILL NOT compete with Linden Lab, on their own currency exchange, listing the L$ that I EARNED next to the L$ that they PRINTED, in a desperate attempt to undercut THEM so I can use the resulting USD to pay tier to them. Nope, I SAY NO! I suggest that everyone email [email]philip@lindenlab.com[/email] and JUST SAY NO TO LINDEN LAB COMPETING WITH CURRENCY SELLERS!_____________________
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Moopf Murray
Moopfmerising
Join date: 7 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,448
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05-08-2006 16:00
I think this """Might""" not be happening if people: 1. Would not had complained about the Bonus 2. Complained about dwell 3. Complained about Stipulands 4. Complained about developer Incentives I also think this would not be happening now, if we still had the dwell, DI, Bonus etc etc My Opinions only of course. hahahahahahahaha. Yesssssss.....of course......couldn't agree more.  You're going to blow a gasket when they get rid of your stipend, aren't you! Personally, I can't wait to see you burn as brightly as a million supanovas exploding simultaneously when that happens. You're bound to come out with some cracking statements then.But there are two questions I have for you. What are "stipulands" exactly? And what's with the random captialization? _____________________
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
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05-08-2006 16:34
hahahahahahahaha. Yesssssss.....of course......couldn't agree more. You're going to blow a gasket when they get rid of your stipend, aren't you! Personally, I can't wait to see you burn as brightly as a million supanovas exploding simultaneously when that happens. You're bound to come out with some cracking statements then.But there are two questions I have for you. What are "stipulands" exactly? And what's with the random captialization? Ok Answer this question. Why should I not report you for personal attack? |
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SpankMe Pinkerton
Registered User
Join date: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 158
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05-08-2006 17:18
Philip Linden emailed me after I sent an email of concern on this issue. He claims that LL will NOT create Lindens out of thin air. Rather, they would sell only Lindens that they received for services rendered such as email storage and the like. While this isn't exactly great news... as it implies added competition to drive down the L$ value, it at least suggests a slightly more level playing field than does spontaneous currency generation. Chuck a great deal of this one up to poor communication (and perhaps some jumping to conclusions by myself and others).
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Cocoanut Cookie
Registered User
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,741
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05-08-2006 17:18
Opinion:
He won't be the only one burning brightly when the stipends are removed. You can look forward to seeing the unhappiness of thousands of people. C C_____________________
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