Prop: 1200 - Let PREMIUM accounts waive their stipend for more land allocation.

> Preserve Linden Lab's revenue from tiers

Doesn't this proposal reduce the income Linden Labs gets? SInce instead of getting USD they instead print less lindens... And since printing Lindens costs them 0, they are losing money.

people still dont quite get that the Volume Of L isnt the problem is people being greedy plain and simple they undercut each other consistantly and that is what creates the biggest drop in L value nothing more nothing less. Control how low they can go and you prevent L value dropping to low as I previously suggested. A safety zone of 300L - 1 usd for min value of L and a safety zone of 125L - 1 USD for a max value only allowing allocation into 1k-2k blocks at a minimum allowing buying to continue on the same course it does just change the selling method!!!

Nepenthes - Yes... a little. I don't know many people that would tier up for a small bit more land and then leave a huge portion of their new allocation un-used. This gives players the option to exceed their default tier a little bit... until they're ready to tier up. Of course, they could tier up and then re-enable their stipend for a while too. It's about having options. =)

Lini - I hear you... but keep in mind that undercutting and surplus L$'s are different problems both of which contribute to the same result. There is no one problem... or one fix here. My suggestion isn't intended to fix them all... it's just a way for players that don't want their stipends to refuse them and get something different in return. =)

Also, the problem with 'fixing' min/max trade values for the L$ is then deciding who gets to sell their L$'s next? First come first served won't work because if L$'s aren't selling... a block of L$12million is going to sit there at L$300 to US$1 in front of everyone else... everyone else may have to wait days for that to get whittled down. If you make it so it's random then the large volume sellers get screwed.

Request Denied... Linden Labs creates Linden Dollars
from thin air. They aren't going to let yahoos like you
give up a fiat currency they print with the press of a button
for real US$ dollars you pay in land tier..


Get off the Crack Pipe Jopsy... Seek Help.

Ah RBD... no thread in the land and the economy forum is complete without your 'respectful and thoughtful consideration'.

Damn Straight, Slacker...

your prop got 10 votes from me Jopsy.... good job

Please see: Liquidity.

First of all, let me thank you in advance for taking the time to read and fully digest this short article on liquidity. The price will continue to drop until it reaches a point where it interests enough buyers to provide enough liquidity for everyone who wishes to sell.

Sellers do not need you to babysit them and tell them to wait in line for four months to cash out enough L$ for one month of tier because there isn't enough liquidity to get them filled in an expediant manner at the price that YOU feel they should be selling at. I don't know what it is that people don't get about this, but the same train of thought that the market should be rigged and people blocked from selling seems to come up an AWFUL lot. If you want the L$ price to go up to the price that YOU feel people should be selling at, there is only one solution.

You must buy all of the L$ available below the price that you'd like set, and provide the requested liquidity to those who don't mind selling at a lower price than YOUR L$ target in order to avoid waiting in line for months, or possibly forever. If LL rigs prices on LindeX, people will NOT wait in line for months and months to get what they need like happy LindeX campers. Instead, they will go ELSEWHERE and sell cheaper to get the liquidity that they require.

well you see my way provides that they can sell L in bigger blocks with a set minimum L block liquidity doesnt come into the equation if its controlled like this . its the matter of controlling the value of L with a safety buffer rather then setting minimum blocks. The minimum block idea was jsut to prevent people saying people are jsut cashing out their stipends. they still can bit it has to be bi weekly or monthly. Its actually quite an ingenius system if its put into order right. Liquidity wont come into question unless it is implemented in the wrong state. Not saying it wont be but if followed directly there shouldnt be any problems found

while people can go elsewhere and sell cheaper its highly unlikely as most of these other sites that buy and sell L have a set price !

Liquidity absolutely comes into the equation. When you have to wait in line, you sell slower. Large blocks don't make this better, they make the line LONGER. Regarding stipends, no, most people aren't cashing out their own stipend. Most people are spending them, after which a few big players cash out EVERYONE'S stipend.

This is not true. Please see the SL Exchange Currency Exchange. This market is actually much more well thought out and implemented than LindeX. By comparison, LindeX looks like a classified ad. If LindeX blocks people from selling in a timely manner, this is where they're likely to go.

I would probably build a currency market also if LindeX made an error of this magnitude, to capitalize on the new influx of currency exchange business to third party exchanges. I see no reason why SL wouldn't have 5 or 6 new money exchanges overnight if LindeX made this error, actually.

There is, of course, good news. Anyone who doesn't like the predictably sliding L$ value is 100% free to raise in-world prices a bit to balance it out. If you're looking to maintain a fixed L$ -> USD conversion ratio, this is the way to go.

im not saying prevent them from doing it in a timely manner jsut so they cant undercut past a certain point that is of course if L value is to be stable to a degree it will keep going down in value if something isnt done if people wanna sell quicker let them sell L for a lower value somewhere else at least the people that can cash out the official means arnt being hurt !

Lina I'm sorry but Shaun is very, very right. You can't restrict an exchange in this way, it won't solve anything, but it will create very, very large problems.
The exchange doesn't need fixing (but it does need buy orders!), it's not broken. What you are witnessing on the Lindex is the symptom, not the cause.
People have the right to sell at whatever rate they want. Everyone has the right to liquidity. L$300/$ may be a great price for you if you sell all your L$ quickly and can take advantage of a business opportunity that suddenly comes up, like more bulk sim auctions.
It is the money supply that needs to be examined. Razing the economy as some suggest, shackling the Lindex as you suggest, will not work. You will see some of the best of SL disappear, SL's economy and the Lindex is what allows high quality resident created content on such a large scale.

again its not really a restriction just some control i was using 125L and 300L as an example but there should be some kind of safety area to keep it from inflation past a certain point or deflation past a certain point, Yes while supply is part of the problem there are alot more underlying causes. Supply of L does not = L going down it is the fact people keep under cutting one another and if the trend continues L will eventually become worthless. What i was suggesting was some kinda way to prevent it from ever reaching that level. Allowing resident to set prices to a degree. You state they should be able to sell at whatever price they want but a big draw to SL is to make money. If the linden becomes worthless then we lose content creators in that aspect. If you cut the stipend you lose some. If you get rid of it completely you lose alot more. While there are other problems its greed mroe then anything that is the underlying cause of the Linden value going down. Someone Set a low price to sell fast for a quick buck and people keep undercuting to get in front of the line once they hit a certain point with a safety zone they either start to retract again or wait. But thats assuming people figure it out. While The Sl Exchange market is an alternative from what i gather its just like Ebay. People bid on the money rather then actually buy it straight forward or they buy it straight forward thats there call. But bidding isnt timely. Taxing people more in game wont help it'll just make people mad but then so will most other solutions. I wasnt trying to state to use my way as an exact contnrol at those values just as a safety precaution more or less. As LL has stated b4 they dont want L to become worthless. 1 way we dont touch it inflation continues another way is cutting things down a little which will stabalize things for a short time but then the inflation route will continue at some point. a 3rd way getting rid of the stipeneds this leads to a boom effect on the economy for a short time but ultimately leads to mass deflation as opposed to the other extreme of inflation. Sure while some control on LL's part may not be a timely manner the current way isnt either. Cutting lindens in game is going to tick people off as well as create problems for developers to change prices drasticly. But as i have previously stated in other posts there is no easy way to go about this i was jsut throwing a suggestion to prevent it from ever falling to low. This matter is by no means an easy subject to solve anything at all. Frankly im not in SL to make money at all but at the same time i dont want to see it ruined i rely on my stipend to have fun etc pay rent on land which i rent after owning other land. Im not trying to cover my tier or anything. Here for fun. All im saying i dont want to see SL ruined by a bunch of greedy people trying to make some quick money but at the same time i dont want it to go under or become so stupid because L is going under. And currently most of the solutions out there dictate only a short fix nothing long term at all they might last a few months then things will just go back to how they were or go the other way and become worse in the other direction of paying to much for L. Again ill state this isnt just a simple matter and needs to be thought of more on the communities side as well as the linden's side we cant just toss in an Idea that could ultimately make things bad for everyone or just end up repeating what happend =/ Thank You and Good day!

Lina I'm not a stickler for spelling and puctuation, but please break it up into paragraphs, it's just too hard to read otherwise, and your point gets lost. I didn't read past the first few lines even though I wanted to.

sorry about that english isnt my strong suit dont speak with people that much and never wrote like essay stuff in english. Lets see if i can sum it up. Basically what im saying is there isnt an easy solution to Fix the economy in SL anything you do is going to have some recourse. Sad fact of the matter is its not going to be easy we are going to piss someone off one way or another. Basic thing my idea was supposed to implement was a zone that cant be crossed inflation/deflation wise all be it whatever number LL finds necessary. But then im having faith in the community taking that as that they should start being a little more smart about how they are selling L and what impact it is having on things in the community and the economy.
I'd like to point out while the sl exchange money market thing is good its more like ebay in a sense. You Kinda got the buy now value or you can bid on money where they reach a certain value kind of stiffling with the time conflict someone stated earlier then saying people are more likely to use this if you limit it in a way that prevents timely sales!!!
I'd like to point out im outside this matter for the most part. Im not in SL to make money i spend my L in game even if i make it in game selling something. While i state that i still dont want people ruining SL for everyone else or LL falling under. Basically the issue needs to be more closely examined by the community side as well as LL's side of things there has to be some balance where everyone is happy.
I'd also like to state the value's set in my idae where just an example of an area of that would be well suited without people claiming the Linden is Falling blah blah blah. Its rather annoying to read forum posts. I dont see volume as a problem as it is volume that actually dictates the price. IE the people that sell more money are the ones controlling the Linden Value for the most part. Its all down to greed but thats in human nature anymore...
Like i stated higher up there is No Simple Solution. If there was it would of been implemented by now. Vashuda needs to take more of a look in world and realize what is going on. While there is enough volume to support people without there being stipends its not fair to anyone to cut them out. Mind you cutting them and then Linden sold would create a boom then deflation to the opposite extreme where L is worth to much. You then basically run into people complaining again. And the people taht can afford to buy vast amount of L basically control everything.
Basically at this point its up to the residents. If they can grow up a little and stop undercutting each ohter every chance they get things may get better without help but sadly i dont see that happening. Thank you for listening to the rantings of me good day!

This doesnt really let me put into paragraph form even though i tried

(Sorry Lini, I couldn't help myself To make paragraph blocks, hit <return> twice not just once

Of course now that it's tainted with my spin, I agree with it much more! =)

I have used systems where putting sell orders in at more than 25% above or below the current price was forbidden. (US$ systems that is). It was very annoying as I tend to be a "long term" stock market type and don't watch the day to days. I wouldn't be opposed to something like that... but L$300 is certainly within 25% of L$250, and this kind of guard-rail would only prevent the random bizarre L$939 to US$1 sales. =)

--
How low can you go.. how loose is your goose.

someone finally got the point i was trying to make

hehe take a look at the SL exchange market for L ill post the manner i which it is setup below Ok here we go :

First We Got the Buy Now Bit

Buy or Sell Linden Dollars

If you are comfortable trading on an open market and want the best possible price,
the SL Currency Exchange may be appropriate for you. Click here to begin.



[ Buy L$ | Sell L$ ]

Select the amount you would like to purchase:

L$7500 for US$29.26
L$5000 for US$19.61
L$2500 for US$9.96
L$1000 for US$4.17
L$500 for US$2.24

You also kind of have this in sale form



[ Buy L$ | Sell L$ ]

Select the amount you would like to sell:

L$100000 for US$303.03
L$75000 for US$227.27
L$50000 for US$151.52
L$30000 for US$90.91
L$20000 for US$60.61
L$15000 for US$45.45
L$10000 for US$30.30
L$7500 for US$22.73
L$5000 for US$15.15

Now then that was the buy/sell now forms of it basically

Now you Have the Market Version of it

which kinda has this setup to it (it confounds me looks like bidding in a sense to me) this is changed between 2 seperate rate formats which look like this!

Current Rate 1000SLL/USD
Bid/Ask 2.94/3.44
Daily High 3.44
Daily Low 2.93
Daily Volume 114,706

and the other is this

Current Rate USD/SLL
Bid/Ask 340.7/291.1
Daily High 341.0
Daily Low 291.0
Daily Volume 115,506

now i dont know the correct take of this but it kinda looks like bidding for L to me.
But ill read the purchasing and selling instructions for a bit more of a clue

Purchasing can be found at this link.. http://slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=7

and selling at this link!! http://slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=8

please give me ur take on the matter Thank YOu

Lina I love your paragraphs

Lini-

Such a method would certainly introduce an interesting spin...
It would certainly get big money sellers all up in arms, and
force them to chop up their sell blocks into small pieces to
get the better rate. =)

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Jopsy