Too Many Malls

I think the time of the malls in SL are drawing to a close. With sites like SLExchange popping up, more places are opting to have their own stores up and instead giving landmarks to these "custom" stores. These give the owner total control over their product, a decent prim limit, and a way to attract users with presentation and organization.

Most malls that I see are terribly built, squeezed to the limit with vendors, rotating boxes, bad signs, and even worse stall design (3 white walls and a floor is NOT an attractive stall, btw).

BEsides... look at it this way.

If you pay $US10/month for land, you get $L500/week in stipend (base).

That's $L2000 lindens a month, which usually can pay for a good chunk of your land fees. Add on top of that your profit for whatever product/service you're selling, and you have yourself a fairly profitable business that you have TOTAL AND COMPLETE control of.

With the nearly-instant transport in-world to anywhere on the map, why do folks feel the need to clump together? If I need to find something (as a casual buyer), I use the find tool and type in keywords. Malls don't even enter into my shopping experience anymore, as a) they're all over the place, b) terribly designed, and c) usually don't have what I'm looking for anyway.

LF

thank you for the tip, ill check it out when i get inworld next






thank you feel free to IM me if you want to see any that i dont have out in my shop before you buy.



jester

As a shopper, I would like to weigh in with my habits...

I NEVER shop at malls, especially ones near telehubs. 99% of my SL purchases come from speciality stores that I found while searching through places. If I am looking for lingerie, I will not be going to a mall, I will be typing lingerie into the places search window and visiting the stores that list themselves. I don't bother with the ones in malls because it takes me 15 minutes to actually find the store I want. I also find that larger, single owner stores have a better selection than a mall vendor with 6 items.

The best shopping areas are the ones where individual designers have their own boutiques, like the way Midnight City is set up and Aasim used to be.

SL is constantly changing, which is interesting and good - I think zoning would just be an attempt to freeze it.

I've seen some malls, like Anshe's Netherbeck location, that are pretty good at keeping things organized into logical groups (i.e. home 'things', clothing, etc.).

I'd like to see other mall owners/operators do the same thing - it would make shopping in malls a little easier.

I have to say, some of the things Anshe has said are very true, especially about stall pricing. They are very widely varried - I found from 25L (Big mall, low design qual, tiny open space) to the quoted 400L (!). Since I am just starting out, I took a stall in a nicely designed Plush Shops (say what you will about my landlord, the price was right).

It is a bummer that I can't place a listing in Find as a vendor. I know I would get more traffic, especially considering the citizens of SL are very computer savvy and probably are used to shopping via internet - so Find is a natural. My next commercial endeavor is to find some land on the outskirts of the commercial miasma near a telehub. I agree that stand-alone stores are much more useful, due to the inherent search feature.

I also like the idea that some have stated, that we should begin to see *either* shops grouped together by type of store (visionary mall owners . . . Anshe???), or have vendors be willing to either wholesale or commission their wares to larger retailers (and here, I am thinking of a Lowes or Home Depot type of store, but could be a department store like Target or whatever).

I really like the discussion here. cool ideas! BTW, thanks to Walker for bringing my attention back to this while we were in world. Howdy neighbor!

Check out Clunn telehub area. You can rent place and many prims there to build own store next to other people's stores in nicely developed area. I can also add you search listing entry if you send me texture, name and description in one notecard.



Friend and I built one whole themed mall building right at Grizledale telehub with intend to group Asian stores. I invited Asian designers in one group and even layed out some space in building to use for free to sell Asian things. You know what result was? Nobody used sofar. People rather went across street and rented space in main mall building, maybe because of l00t dwell show on land parcel. So now I just started open Asia Centre to all type of stores to rent because limiting to one theme only made me loose money on this place.[/QUOTE]

Webcommerce makes more sense. I don't expect Mall-Owner-Hyper-Mega-Global-Corp to 'get it' just yet, but if you don't have to wait for things to rezz, and there is a *searchable index* then you really don't understand what shopping convenience is. For some, its to waste some time and spend L$50 on some trinkets. For others, its "I need to find this *NOW*, not wait for everything to rezz and fork over my hard-earned L$ and DWELL to someone in the process." These are the BIG purchasers, and what -- you're making them WAIT and enjoy your AMBIENCE? Are you frickin kidding me?

Telehub malls are just the last gasp of the mall dinosaur -- why are they necessary now and not before? Or better yet, why are they emphasized now and not before? Simple, because the pea-brain dinosaur mall owners (to fit the dinosaur analogy, work with me) are trying to desperately funnel people into their stores.

Think about it, if you have to search all over the world for something, I don't care if you have them ordered by TELEHUB (One for bonsai trees, oh joy!...pfft), its still pretty inefficient. Its like the local telephone company telling you only CERTAIN phones are for calling the police, and the others are for ordering out for pizza.

That's just insanity, because you aren't catering to your customers, just your own drive for DWELL/TRAFFIC and of course, RENTAL FEES.

I'm glad we had this little talk.

Maxx, go play #IRC. Why are you still stupic enough log into this inefficient lag hell client of Second Life if you can chat and cyber with people LAG FREE on #IRC channel?

Mmmm, wait...

I. Maxx don't like Anshe
II. Anshe run telehub malls
I, II => III. Telehub mall must s0xxX0rZ

Actually, it's #SecondLife, and IRC is far from lag free Its not a bad place if you disregard the for sale signs every.... oh wait, sorry... Getting my virtual environments confused again.

Well, lets see -- one at a time:

1) Like? What is this, are we *dating*? LOL!! Here it is in a nutshell - you are a public figure running a large corporation. If Bill Gates can take some criticism of his business practices, then I'd say you better get used to people not instantly lauding you with praise when every telehub is choked-up with 'oh so helpful' malls.

2) I don't shop on IRC. But I'm sure if there was a way to clog up channels with spam-bots promoting products, you'd certainly explore it, because we both know just how wonderfully 'driven' you are.

3) Does not compute, but here I am arguing with someone about why webcommerce has its advantages, and yet you don't reply with anything remotely resembling a coherent response. I think I've seen this before, and its name was Big John Jade. You guys do lunch often? Just curious.

So, suck it up, because honestly if you can't handle some criticism of your business, then I have to wonder why you bother running one at all.

Enjoy your day, may your uncle smile at you from paradise, or whatever telehub that is.

Maxx.. you bring up some good points about malls, but I don't know if I'm totally sold on the idea that they are going the way of the Dodo.

Why? IW shopping offers a couple of things (for me, anyway) shopping on a site can't:

- shopping with friends.
- a chance to dig my head up out of the latest project and get out in the world and actually *see* it.
- client stability - if I run my client at full-screen and flip back/forth, it becomes unstable for some reason and I usually end up crashing - so, I don't do that anymore.


Personally, I think what we're seeing with the aggregation of shopping near the hubs is the realization of what the Lindens were trying to create with sparse placement of the hubs: self-made business 'districts' clustered around the transport stations.

I think there's also a lot of upstart malls that are trying to enter the market, but may not make it for a variety of reasons. So, we'll probably continue to see malls rise and fall around the hubs for a while, but I think it's great to see the migration *toward* the hubs, leaving the rest for quiet residential - oh, and big spinning signs.

Anyway.. just my thoughts.

Too many malls?

My Alms to loan!


...Manly loo mats?

lol!

lol?

...oll

Some people who critisize Bill Gates do so out of real concerns. Some people who critisize Bill Gates do for personal reasons or out of envy.

Some people who critisize Anshe Chung do so out of real concerns. Some people who critisize Anshe Chung do for personal reasons or out of envy.



My malls and telehub developments look nice. They are way better than average construction you find in those areas. I am driving crap mall after crap mall out of business by providing nicer alternatives. Just same way I drove high margin land baron after high margin land baron out of business by providing better alternative.



This statement is examplary for many of your recent postings.



Big John is nice boy. I like him a lot



...

Anshe = Bill Gates.

That explains a lot!

Sorry Anshe, you did set up the target, so I had to take the shot.

I'm glad you passed basic math. Yes, out of a whole, there will be two parts that can be delineated between 'A' and 'B'. I can see how this amazing skill has been put to use in your business, for instance, which telehubs don't have malls, in the 'A' group, and which telehubs have *yet* to have malls, in the 'B' group.

Of course this ignores any community good, just your bottom line. Bill Gates would be proud Anshe, and we know how loved *he* is.



Subjective, the whole argument isn't centered on what looks 'nice'. It isn't whether we think you're 'nice' for building and financing them. The fact remains that you're just in business for yourself, and any means to promote that will be taken advantage of. Keep patting yourself on the back though, that is what many CEO's do before their company takes a dive. (Can't do anything wrong, things are going splendidly....oh, is there a crowd outside my richly-appointed office? What? They hate me??!! Nooooooo, Uncle save me!!)

You've driven other people out of business? Yeah, so has Microsoft. At least you get that angle, embrace, extend and smother. Doing really well there. It doesn't mean that you're the 'chosen one' or more 'loved' in SL for doing so. But again, human beings are quite capable of rationalizing anything, and you've proven that most ably.



Then quote it - because it deserves a second showing!!

2) I don't shop on IRC. But I'm sure if there was a way to clog up channels with spam-bots promoting products, you'd certainly explore it, because we both know just how wonderfully 'driven' you are.

I'm glad you think its examplary(lol) -- I couldn't find the word you used, but after some correction, you must've meant 'exemplary' which means 'deserves imitation' among other things. Thanks Anshe! I knew you weren't a total icecicle after all!! LOL!



Hey, that's great -- But I didn't ask you about your love interests. Cmon Anshe, stay focused, ok?



I think your keyboard is stuck, better cash in a few thou L$ to get a new one, KTHX.

Seems you are enjoying yourself very well, Maxx, while trying paint others as selfish or otherwise bad individuals. It would have been more honest though if you'd have brought your true "argument" in first place instead of trying maskerade it behind something else.

Some people work hard and create, maybe motivated by selfish movitation. But this is still 100 times better than those jealous little minds who don't create but try destroy other's efforts.

So feel free call me "Bill Gates" or "CEO". It honors me, despite fact that in reality I am just one little freelancer who work her butt off to support her parents. But I can understand you and others take it out on me, instead of on the really rich people whom you have no chance to even talk to. As Robin Linden said, I have become "one symbol to many for what is wrong". Another word for this is "scapegoat".

Ah I see, initiate 'Poor-wittle-business-girl-mode' STAT!! Great defense, problem is, it only works the *first* time you use it, you know? Maybe if you could stop crying those tears of avoidance and face up to the reality that as a public figure, you may not be the most loved individual on the planet, then we could make some headway into those business marketing practices. Hell, your .sig is technically spam, I'm sure it rates high on any junk-buster filter on the internet.

Come to think of it, I've given you free advertising, and you're still *not* happy??!!



Yeah, we've established in a given set, that there's a few different groups. (Hit yourself, you're stuck repeating again, like an old record player, lol!) This doesn't match up well with your ruthless determination to run people out of business, so I'm not phased by your platitudes about 'selfishness' and 'jealousy'. You've destroyed far more than you ever 'created', if you want to count all the 'crap' you claim to have replaced.

I'll give you one thing though, you are good at 'creating' drama!! LOL.



Oh yeah, right, I'm sure someone is having an operation, you're about to be kicked out into the street, and you have only just found out that you're carrying twins. Oh, and you don't have enough money between your night dancing job and welding at the construction site, ala 'Flashdance', that you have to turn to the hard and cruel pasttime of investing over $40,000 US DOLLARS into the Linden economy. Yep, that must be SOME hard time you're going through there.

Oh, woops, that was part of your 'poor-wittle-me' defense. I forgot you still used that tired old trick to gain sympathy. I take back what I said about you and Bill Gates, at least he's man enough to take his knocks and not cry in the corner when he's faced with some hard criticism about his business.

Honestly, cut it out, you're a grown woman(man??...gender on the internet is *so* indeterminate, you know?).

*giggles*

You seem truly obsessed with my person

Well, now that you have taken this thread to its ultimate intellectual climax I hope you don't mind if I move on. Feel free continue your "scientific" analysis of my character, bank account and RL gender. It may have entertainment value to some But I gotta work.

Whenever you want to talk about your business, and stop avoiding it, let me know. Its been fun sparring with you. I'm sorry you feel that you have to 'move on' after spending so much time writing to me. I guess its to be expected, as soon as things don't go your way you pack up your toys and leave, like most spoiled children do.

Let me know when you want to come back to the adult table and talk, KTHX.

Get a room, you guys!

I really don't like men *that way*, thanks.

Geez, Maxx, usually I'm the one rambling pointlessly and verbosely on these forums, with free-floating venom, did you need to pick up my slack while I was at work this morning LOL?

I don't mind if Anshe has a Horatio Alger rags-to-riches legend she tells about how she parlayed 512 acres into a $40,000 stake and supports her poor parents in China. I think that's cool, it's part of her corporate legend, and it's no different than Ray Kroc or the Wendy's guy, it's all part of doing business. I don't really understand the charges about the evil business practices. I was quite prepared to play Aging Hippie and get all indignant about Anshe's slash and burn techniques when everybody grumbled about them. But...then I saw her four-sale sign was pretty. She didn't crap up land she put to sale. She improved it. Her malls *are* better -- go look at the one in Ross for example where I rent and which I saw going up (complained about it at first but Elle fixed the blank wall rezzing up and dominating the sim so I was mollified).

I've sold land to Anshe and bought land from Anshe. She is prompt and curteous. She will cut you a deal sometimes. She drives a hard bargain. So? I remember one night I was dicking around with dividing up some land I couldn't unload, and Anshe paid me a personal house visit, I was so flattered LOL. She must have seen a zillion little parcels come up and down on the FIND FOR SALE list as I struggled with subdividing. She offered to take the land off my hands. I reflected, and decided I wanted to gut it out. She said her offer would stand for 24 hours. I gutted it out and I sold it at my price. It was fun. I hear other people who have the experience of Anshe telling them their land is not worth what they've set it to, and she'll take it off their hands, as saying this is unseemly pressure and it intimidates them. But she is providing a service. Do you know how much ridiculously subdivided, crapped-up, not-well-located, unuseful and not pretty land there is in this game which Anshe has soaked up and tried to make a go with? Look again.

Maybe there's too much of Anshe in the game, but that's not her fault, it's merely because there aren't enough of other people.

It's very hard trying to develop sims. There are so many problems ranging from the teleporter being out to your entire sim to griefing neighbours to accidents with "release land" to making all kinds of mistakes and having to spend lots of time paying attention to administrative detail. I think no one who has walked a mile in these shoes should snipe quite so viciously as some on these forums do.

The Lindens have a great racket. They have outsourced their programming work in dividing up and developing new sims. In fact, brilliantly, they have gotten people to pay hundreds and even thousands of RL dollars for this privilege.

Very interesting, this. Ideas like this are what separate Conservatives from Libertarians/Anarchists, and "Capitalism" from a "Free Market".

IMO, Zoning and licensing laws are two of the most pernicious and vile tyrannies that plague us today and keep poor people from taking advantage of a market economy. It's always the small things, the subtle ones that are the most dangerous. Because we don't notice them as much.

As with clubs, the solution to malls is inherent in the market... as it matures, ppl will become more discriminating about where they shop and the less efficient and fun to shop at malls will die off. If anything, the recent inflation curbs should help a lot with this.
The only next step would be to fix the auction process, in order to make the land purchase system more like an unrestricted, fluid market.