GOM "theft" - an egotistical try for a last word

This topic keeps raising it's head everywhere.

I feel the need to again express my viewpoint, since it is so opposed to the prevailing mood - and since I think I can now formulate it more clearly.

Here goes (tin hat on):
______________

GOM were lucky to be offered the shares they turned down.
They were lucky to have many months of warning.
They were foolish not to pre-plan and diversify.
They are disingenuous in their present public complaints.
I am unconvinced their business will, or need be, destroyed.
I do not believe LL will, or need, "steal" anything from them in any sense proprietary.
No business should be ever be compensated when LL takes steps to enhance or extend the SL world, for the wider benefit. Every business should be watching and contingency planning for such eventuality.
I do not believe the confidence of business people need be shaken. They should know that what they are doing is risky and needs foresight and intelligence.
I believe that business people should be expending their efforts persuading LL to provide a more stable economy (land prices and exchange rate) and that this is what matters.

I don't think this is so much of a question of right or wrong as maybe it was a strategical error on Philips part as well.

He doesn't owe anything, but hey may find that he has set back SL as being the metaverse a bit because people are now paranoid of him, where before he had a certain amount of credibility and leadership among those of us who wanted to build for his world.

It's not really so much a question of morality as it is of practicality.

This may have lost IGE as well, which is why the L$ is dropping so quickly. They are dumping their L$ as they are afraid of what's coming down the pipe.

Plus, IGE/GOM did bring in customers in their own way. Philip has alienated a couple of useful partners.

I just don't think it had to be this way.

Wow, for once I totally agree with you, Ellie.

Such apparent anomalies can happen any time amongst those of us who post on issues not personalities, Jesrad.
(kiss kiss kiss hug)

I basically agree with you, Ellie. I have no problem with business owners lobbying to protect their own efforts -- that is to be expected and commended. I don't believe that LL has any obligation to act on those lobbying efforts however.

SL businesses who want to influence LL have to do more than complain -- they have to give LL a reason, an incentive, to listen and then actually act. "I pay tier" isn't enough. "Don't piss off your customers" isn't enough either, because when LL makes a move it's because they think it will garner them MORE customers in the long run.

Clearly in the GOM case, the GOM team didn't offer enough of a business incentive to make LL change it's mind.

Blaze, we are all aware that some for-profit projects will probably be still-born in the wake of the GOM situation, but I could argue that those all relate to "middle-game" stuff in the growth curve of Second Life. The end game is important here. SL has yet to really prove itself (as much as we residents love it) in the broader market. It will take better technology and a better user experience to make that happen.

At some point in time, opening up the platform and building a community of 3rd party solutions and add-ons will seriously strengthen their position. If they always remain closed, they will make themselves vulnerable.

However, for the time being, I think that Philip is doing a pretty good job of keeping his eye on the ball.

And LL building their own exchange system will do this how?

You'll find the answer to that question posted to this very forum already about, oh, twenty times now.

By giving residents an easy and painless way to purchase money, that they will then in turn spend on products or services. How difficult is this to comprehend? People will not be purchasing money to sit on it but to spend which in turn helps stimulate the economy.

For the record the actions LL have taken do not make me paranoid or distrustful of Phillip or Sl. Businesses have to adapt and that is the way of business in real life, competitors come some may have advantages or money you dont have. You must innovate and progress if you wish to survive.

LL made a decision that was best for Sl as a whole that will help SL become a more viable and competitve product, that is thier first responsibility. That may sound harsh but if they do not continue to develop and make Sl marketable then eventually they will be surpassed by competitors.

heres the problem the idea has not been demonstrated so when every one is scared that how this is played out those who make a living off of sl should be concerned on this subject

but we still dont know how this will play out and it could have been becuase paypal takes time to transfer money and gom requires 30 days before trading. if this hurts gom then do like any business person would reinvent them selfs to be better when you have competition that only means your product has to be greater than whats being presented.

if they want to survive this they will.

Agreed


I wouldn't necessarily call them foolish. They may have analyzed the situation and realized that the best case scenario was that their days were numbered. Given the operational issues they had to deal with why wrap up additional time and investment in something that is going to whittle away at profit. Sometimes it is better to fold up the tent then just keep an entity going for the sake of having a presence. In other words, the pre-planning and diversification may be to come back and do some other business unrelated to currency exchange. But I'll grant you that the impression is that they have had their thumbs up their asses.


You may be right here but I think they are f'ed. They and others.


You focus on the need to preplan and come up with contingencies yet this would be the biggest time-waster of all for businesses. Phillip knows damn well who will be pissed and/or screwed over by his decisions, yet makes them anyway (as he should). Unlike the businesses that do not plan here, LL has a business plan that involves real world dollars. If Phillip feels that turning SL into a socialist utopia is the way to go, he'll do it regardless of who loses out.

I see it nowhere. So, please do tell.

Sure, just start at http://www.rif.org. ...because if you've actually looked and you haven't seen it yet, there's a reading comprehension issue that needs to be solved before anything I type will do any good.

Not to be cruel but anyone trying to actually make their entire living on an emerging system like this probably needs to have their head checked. Certainly there's some money to be made here, but for the system to survive and grow larger, it's going to have to suffer through some changes that are going necessarily toss a few people by the roadside every time they happen. Whether those people arrange their affairs so that they can quickly dust themselves off and get back into the race or bet the farm and risk winding up homeless is up to them, but stability and growth are seldom seen side by side, and for this system to survive, it needs growth.

...and to clarify before I have to pull out the asbestos suit, folks trying to make a sideline income in SL are probably doing something that in later years will be viewed as really smart, but folks trying to make this their sole form of income right now are just asking for trouble unless they're living really, really cheaply. Personally, I want businesses to be able to prosper here because this type of simulator technology is only going to become more and more important as time goes on, but the arguing that changes necessary for increased growth potential shouldn't take place because they'll harm the short-term interests of a few of the early adopters is just as good as begging the system to stagnate and die.

I have seen nowhere on the forums where LL building an exchange service helps stablize the economy. All it will do is allow more people to sell, and it easir for new players to buy. This does not stablize the economy. If anyone needs anything, I think most people here need to take economics 101.

The good news: Absolutely. I agree with your entire post. I've had my asbestos suit on for some time.

The bad news: I found the link you offered someone to imply he was illiterate to be offensive, rude, and not even appropriate. If it doesn't cause a flame war disrupting a serious thread, we are very lucky. I therefore abuse reported it, so if you get a warning, its my fault. Or is it perhaps yours?

You am smart. You am intelligent. Why you need to be so rude and risk screwing up a good discussion ?

I completely agree with Ellie. I believe that "Your World" means we are co-developers.
We're here to help LL figure out how to monetize their content development platform. We share their costs by paying for server usage directly, and through L$ and developer incentives, we share in their profit.
We have a huge amount of input in the development process, being allowed to vote on what features are more important for us. Everyone all the way up to Philip is willing to listen and help us.
The ultimate expression of success in SL is to shape it in such a way that your input becomes an integral part of the system. GOM has succeeded.

Just a gentle reminder to please refrain from personally attacking one another on the SL Forums.

Since you're all so excited about LL selling and exchanging Linden's on their website; have any of you actually thought about who will be selling these Linden's? Have you even asked or thought about fraud protection if/when the first case of fraud happens and how (if you are a seller of these Linden's) your monies will be protected and reimbursed (if at all)?

IF LL won't reimburse for the glitch with the asset server and many individual's inventory which has cost them thousands of Linden dollars to obtain over several years (or months) -- what makes you so sure this is the correct move to make?

As it was stated earlier, anyone who is creating any code that correlates with the SL interface and/or game options should be very very wary about doing any business with LL in the future.

I will await for the first fraud post to come out (if it ever does) and how LL will protect it's consumer's.

GOM was a part of the community, they grew up with SL with Philip's blessing (along with numerous press releases) about how a money trading system was implemented with the blessing of a gaming company. It was a first. They were excited about their code and the prospect of growing as SL grows.

As I've said in other threads, I'm glad to see your efforts with the community being as outstanding as GOM's has been in the past. Continue with IGE or with AnsheCorp in selling your monies and/or obtaining your funds. Or purchase them from the Linden's website.

But for the love of God, stop penalizing and punishing and bashing two young men who took a chance with the metauniverse, met with Uncle Phil and others, got their blessing to continue with their project and then watched it taken from them. Theft, yes. As I said, I truly hope that both Jamie and Tom have detailed notes of meetings and discussions held.

Your true colors are showing through. I'm so glad that you feel righteous over two individual's hard work that enabled SL to grow at a time when we had no other way of purchasing money. Continue showing yourself with these types of posts. We are getting a very good insight. Simply remember, your time will come.

I dare any one of you to say what you are saying here personally and face to face to Jamie and Tom. I dare any one of you to speak to them about what has occurred. You won't. You don't have the balls.

I don't see how someone can falsely claim to LL that they have N L$ on their account when they really have X (where X < N).

And on the seller->buyer aspect, I know that Philip has already stated that they will fight CC fraud.

So I'm curious about what kind of fraud you are talking about here. Can you detail please ? This is a topic that interests me much.

There are ways to buy Linden's with a stolen CC and/or Paypal account. Basically, the last company to have "purchased" those Linden's will not see one dime in payment. It's happened before not only to GOM and IGE, but to other webselling sites (e-Bay included). It's a scam/fraud. So I'm just wondering what type of insurance LL is offering if this scam should happen on their re-selling webpage and one individual and/or company is out, oh say, 50K in Linden's.

Seems not to be different from all the Ebay scams out there... P-P-Powerbook, anyone ?

It's just carrot and stick tactics. Personally, I thought that citing a kid's site would be a fairly mild stick. The answer to his question had been posted many, many times, and was even right there in the transcript of the Town Hall.

There is a saying that everyone must know by now about not be able to make a horse drink. Not seeing the answer to that particular question by now (as far as I can tell) implies either a very stubborn horse or an outright lie attempting the ever-popular "Nyahnyah can't hear you" rebuttal.

It's very possible that people well-established in the system simply don't see the problem the change is meant to address, but for me, someone who's been watching the thing for awhile and just went through the whole "oh geez I have to do what to buy a pair of freaking sunglasses" problem, it's really obvious. Linden's plan will definitely solve it.

This is very true, the LL plan will make it easier for new users to buy sunglasses. However, you're ignoring the fact that there was (and still is) an alterative plan that would have been even easier to use AND easier to implement. The reason it wasn't chosen? Only LL know that and they aren't saying. My own speculation is that it would have involved LL working with GOM, whereas LL seem to want to take over GOM.

LL putting the case that GOM can continue to provide extra sevices that their own exchange will not is totally irrelevant. Why? Because all new users will be taught to buy their L$ from the LL site, and in a few months time there will be an entire section of SL society who have never heard of GOM and will in turn be teaching new users that if they want more L$ they buy them from the "kewl LL exchange".

Frankly, Lynn - thats wrong. Why are you so angry, why are they so angry (if they are) ? They can go on trading - its not quite clear to me, but even without the buyout they maybe wanted, it seems many of the LL trades may still come through them.

My guess is most of oldies will stay loyal to GOM - once you have it set up and know how to work it - its fine. The newbies will go LL, but when someone later shows them GOM, its elegance may well appeal to them too, as it does me.

And if GOM innovate - maybe futures, maybe hedge accounts, things like that. Or even use the big cash balance to offer mortgages. Give them another 6 months or year ahead of the competition.

Know how much the value of my land (and yours ?) has dropped recently, due to LL (in my opinion) mishandling the land supply ? Shall we all apply for compensation for that ?

I like GOM, and will stay loyal unless the penalty of doing so is too big. You and everyone else can do the same. They need not take much hit at all, though maybe not get the newbie growth they were hoping for. And with innovation and intelligence, the world is their oyster.

This is all emotional nonsense. Compensate GOM today (at the expense of the rest of us) and the precedent means we are compensating WHO tomorrow ? If them, every landowner when the price drops. Even if you reagard that as in a different category, there are going to be dozens of businesses potentially hurt each time SL extends capability in thbe future. Its the risk of business. Take the rewards - bear the risk. Dont complain.

See Anshe and telehubs for the next in line in the compensation culture. Simply put - NO.

Don't be silly Lynn, of course I would talk to them face to face about this issue. I have been a software entrepreneur just like they are. I know the fear of having a partner all of a sudden become a competitor. I respect what they have built and the hard work they put in. I'm hoping they are able to innovate, once LL's design becomes clear, and come up with a useful service that I can continue using.

I would argue to protect GOM's right to enhance their own software just as quickly as I argue to protect Linden Lab's right.

Local currencies and currency exchanges are not new concepts. I was talking to Bernard Lietaer and the guys behind www.transaction.net about this stuff more than 6 years ago, and there were people talking about it before then. So far I haven't seen Linden Lab talk about anything they wouldn't have come with themselves -- although really, so little has come out that one can only reserve judgement. Well, I am reserving judgement, anyway.